Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.

[pegasus]

... on the WED being next door? ...

Noise maybe originating from lounge near sliding door,
directly under awake witness in lounge 5G,
but not adjacent to asleep witness in bedroom 5B north end. All JIMO, might be wrong.

[Silkywhiskers]

Yes there's also the PROBABILITY that Madeleine woke and cried more than one night of the holiday.

No one knows do they, as the parents were off having fun?

The only reason we know about ONE crying session is because of Mrs Fenn, which in turn forced Kate to acknowledge ONE crying session in her book.

I suggest there were several.

Madeleine had a sleep chart at home which means she had problems going to sleep or staying asleep, which makes it even LESS understandable that mummy and daddy took off for Tapas night after night.

[John]

Eve O'Brien was one year old, too young to cry "Daddy!". And Russel was there, so if she started to cry, he would react immediately. There would be no reason for her prolonged crying.

Very sensible post.  No parent in attendance is going to allow their child to cry for an hour and fifteen minutes and especially so in a resort apartment with people being in such close proximity to each other. The only child who was unsupervised and capable of crying for her daddy was Madeleine.

In any event Mrs Fenn was nobody's fool.  She knew where the crying was coming from and stated as much...immediately below ie apartment 5a.

[sadie]

Very sensible post.  No parent in attendance is going to allow their child to cry for an hour and fifteen minutes and especially so in a resort apartment with people being in such close proximity to each other. The only child who was unsupervised and capable of crying for her daddy was Madeleine.

In any event Mrs Fenn was nobody's fool.  She knew where the crying was coming from and stated as much...immediately below ie apartment 5a.

There is absolutely no proof that it was Madeleine crying THat particular night, John.

Had Madeleine been crying so loudly, there would have been three little ones crying.

I have no doubts that Madeleine would have wakened the twins had she been distressed.

There would have been three little ones at it ...  NOT one.



Incidentally at Mrs Fenns age it is quite likely that she suffered deafness.  I do too ... and I have absolutely no idea where sound comes from now.  No idea at all.

[John]

There is absolutely no proof that it was Madeleine crying THat particular night, John.

Had Madeleine been crying so loudly, there would have been three little ones crying.

I have no doubts that Madeleine would have wakened the twins had she been distressed.

There would have been three little ones at it ...  NOT one.



Incidentally at Mrs Fenns age it is quite likely that she suffered deafness.  I do too ... and I have absolutely no idea where sound comes from now.  No idea at all.

No proof?  Not if you discount Mrs Fenns very astute observation that it was a child directly beneath her apartment.  I must say your attempts to undermine her evidence are not admirable by any means.

Tue night.  Mrs Fenn heard a child crying daddy for over an hour.
Thur morning.  Madeleine complains to her mother that she and Sean were crying the previous night.

That makes two nights in which one or more child was crying for their parents.  Twist as much as you like but the evidence is crystal clear.

[jassi]

No proof?  Not if you discount Mrs Fenns very astute observation that it was a child directly beneath her apartment.  I must say your attempts to undermine her evidence are not admirable by any means.

Tue night.  Mrs Fenn heard a child crying daddy for over an hour.
Thur morning.  Madeleine complains to her mother that she and Sean were crying the previous night.

That makes two nights in which one or more child was crying for their parents. Twist as much as you like but the evidence is crystal clear.

Absolutely. Whoever it was, childcare was abysmal.

[misty]

Writing only from my own experience. a crying child tends to get out of bed to find mum or dad if no-one comes to deal with them within a few minutes. I would hazard a guess that Madeleine had got out of bed & wandered into the lounge area & parents' bedroom, looking for them, crying, & this is what Mrs Fenn heard. But a tired child doesn't cry for over an hour, they tend to fall back to sleep. Sean probably couldn't get out of the travel cot to go wandering.
Having raised two tots in a flat, I can also say that noise from above & below is much more audible than from adjoining property either side.
I suspect Mrs Fenn may well have been "encouraged" to embellish her statement (when she was finally interviewed) in accordance with the PJ's unwritten rules to portray British parents in a very bad light.

[Silkywhiskers]

Writing only from my own experience. a crying child tends to get out of bed to find mum or dad if no-one comes to deal with them within a few minutes. I would hazard a guess that Madeleine had got out of bed & wandered into the lounge area & parents' bedroom, looking for them, crying, & this is what Mrs Fenn heard. But a tired child doesn't cry for over an hour, they tend to fall back to sleep. Sean probably couldn't get out of the travel cot to go wandering.
Having raised two tots in a flat, I can also say that noise from above & below is much more audible than from adjoining property either side.
I suspect Mrs Fenn may well have been "encouraged" to embellish her statement (when she was finally interviewed) in accordance with the PJ's unwritten rules to portray British parents in a very bad light.

And just like that, Mrs Fenn is also Lying.

The PJ didn't NEED help to paint the parents in a very bad light.  They did that themselves.

Do you not realise how STUPID this sounds?

[stephen25000]

Writing only from my own experience. a crying child tends to get out of bed to find mum or dad if no-one comes to deal with them within a few minutes. I would hazard a guess that Madeleine had got out of bed & wandered into the lounge area & parents' bedroom, looking for them, crying, & this is what Mrs Fenn heard. But a tired child doesn't cry for over an hour, they tend to fall back to sleep. Sean probably couldn't get out of the travel cot to go wandering.
Having raised two tots in a flat, I can also say that noise from above & below is much more audible than from adjoining property either side.
I suspect Mrs Fenn may well have been "encouraged" to embellish her statement (when she was finally interviewed) in accordance with the PJ's unwritten rules to portray British parents in a very bad light.

What a load of cobblers.

[ferryman]

Mrs Fenn was interviewed 4 months after the crime, an extraordinary gap given that she was the person in closest proximity to crime(s) against Madeleine when it or they were committed.

And advanced billing of her interview said nothing about Madeleine; rather it was portrayed as about a crime of which Mrs Fenn, herself, was a victim.

[icabodcrane]

And just like that, Mrs Fenn is also Lying.

The PJ didn't NEED help to paint the parents in a very bad light.  They did that themselves.

Do you not realise how STUPID this sounds?

I don't understand why members who make these claims that people in this case are telling lies don't stop and ask themselves why  ....   why  would all these unconnected people be telling all these lies  ?

The only people with a potential  motive to lie in this case are the McCanns and their chums

There is simply no rational reason to suspect that those who have absolutely nothing to gain by lying would do so

[Silkywhiskers]

I don't understand why members who make these claims that people in this case are telling lies don't stop and ask themselves why  ....   why  would all these unconnected people be telling all these lies  ?

The only people with a potential  motive to lie in this case are the McCanns and their chums

There is simply no rational reason to suspect that those who have absolutely nothing to gain by lying would do so

Team McCann speak as if they always KNEW Madeleine has been abducted and the PJ are corrupt and attempting to blame the McCanns for no reason at all.

At the stage of the 49 questions, there were suspicions, but still no hard proof.

So why didn't the "stitchers" do a better job?  Why did Kate and Gerry get let go to swan around PDL then b....r off to the UK again?

If they were being stitched up, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED.

They were not.

[pegasus]

... I suspect Mrs Fenn may well have been "encouraged" to embellish her statement (when she was finally interviewed) in accordance with the PJ's unwritten rules to portray British parents in a very bad light.

How then do you explain that at least local resident, dumbfounded on hearing on the local grapevine about the crying and appalled by what he/she heard, posted the details of it online. Please note this was before the PJ/UKpolice team interviewed Mrs F, so it cannot possibly be due to pressure by the PJ/UKpolice. I seem to remember one of the posts did contain the word "liar" (more than once or twice), but it was certainly not referring to Mrs F nor to the PJ/UKpolice.

[sadie]

How then do you explain that at least local resident, hearing on the local grapevine about the crying and appalled by what he heard, posted the details of it online. Please note this was before the PJ/UKpolice team interviewed Mrs F, so it cannot possibly be due to pressure by the PJ/UKpolice. I seem to remember one of the posts did contain the word "liar" and not just once or twice, but it was certainly not referring to Mrs F nor to the PJ/UKpolice.

Oh, Chinese Whispers again

I am surprised at you, Pegasus, taking notice of that.

[misty]

For the record, if you actually bothered to read the entire contents of my post, I did NOT accuse Mrs Fenn of lying per se, I merely said she may well have been encouraged to exaggerate the length of time she heard the child crying. She denied knowing anything, on camera, a few weeks before she was interviewed by the PJ.
If Madeleine was the child crying, I firmly believe she would have got out of bed & wandered around looking for mum or dad. The same thing may well have happened on the Thursday night - who knows - a child who is worried about being left will invariably not settle so she may well have still been awake when the McCanns went off to dinner.
Still, as the lady is not here to defend herself and she never had to stand up in court & give testimony, I doubt we will ever know the real truth.