Author Topic: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?  (Read 20105 times)

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Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2014, 05:40:47 PM »
I'm curious of the idea you may have of their personal "search" vs the search that was allegedly hampered by GA's book. And by the way are you "searching" yourself as they asked people to ?

Hope my post #60 to icabod answers the question about the book.

As to my searching, it would be nice (though possibly  completely fantasisit as well) to imagine that discussing these matters with thought would bring some clarity to the situation.

But searching in the way Kate McCann suggests, no, I am not (though what she really means by asking people to search is another question again).

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2014, 05:45:46 PM »
............and then again, very broadly, creating "distance" verbally or otherwise could also indicate a need to deflect suspicion elsewhere and attempt to manipulate the direction an investigation takes.

It could, theoretically.

Though those would be a deliberate acts of deception or obfuscation, and I believe that a lot of what Gerry and Kate say and do that appears deceptive or odd is unwittingly so.

To return to the statement ' we will always regret not being with Madeleine when she has taken', which had the effect of making people suspicious, it is not a lie. It is not an attempt to misrepresent something or mislead. It is simply a nonsensical collection of words bourne out of difficult feelings.

I do believe that much of what is said by Gerry and Kate McCann that has been described as lies or untruth, is, upon careful analysis, merely nonsense.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 05:51:22 PM by Sherlock Holmes »

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2014, 05:49:53 PM »
Could you elaborate a bit, SH ?

I think the international sightings and publicity campaign in general are really a diversion from reality. Chasing the rainbow's end rather than focusing on what is in front of you.


Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2014, 05:53:31 PM »
"Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand."
"An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended." (GM Blogs)

Platitudes: using the universal to avoid the personal.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2014, 05:58:52 PM »
I don't see any distance here. Mr McCann has been asked many times why they left the children alone and he had to provide an answer. Stricto senso, because of the ellipse on "resulting in Madeleine's abduction", his answer that he did nothing wrong is right. He never imagined that abduction could happen and nobody would have.
The reasons why they should never ever have left the children alone are far more serious and real than an abduction from bed risk with a quasi null probability. Then, logically, why should he feel guilty if none of the awful likely events occurred?
Mr McCann is taking no distance here, he rightly says he did nothing wrong on the topic of abduction, his feeling of guilt being limited to not being a superfather gifted with omnivision and omnihearing.
Though Mr McCann claimed he was surprised by the door that moved by itself, he never said he felt guilty not to have checked behind the door. There he had a very good opportunity to express guilt. But he never caught it. Was he taking a distance ? Or did he just lack of imagination ?

Nice terminologies!

But seriously, stricto senso, he was slightly at fault for leaving the children, not because of the (miniscule) risk of abduction, but because of the much greater risk of accidents.

So what was a minor mistake, snowballed, through events beyond Gerry's control, into a much greater 'mistake'.

Another point I would make, Anne, is that when using the word guilt, I am speaking obviously of feelings of guilt. These are quite separate things, and could even run contradictory to, questions of moral responsibility or legal culpability. Important distinctions to bear in mind.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 06:02:11 PM by Sherlock Holmes »

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #65 on: February 25, 2014, 05:59:04 PM »

Given that this is not a case where the McCanns would be likely to reap millions either, whatever the verdict, it is therefore questionable what the motive in bringing matters to trial should be. If not practical or financial, it may well be psychological, as it were.
It is financial, otherwise their lawyer wouldn't insist on invoices and receipts. I heard her tell the AFP journalist who knew almost nothing about the case that the McCanns were entitled to that amount of money, not GA.
I suspect that the lawyer here is exceeding her mission. I don't think that the McCanns decided to sue GA mainly for money (to invest in the fund, of course..).

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2014, 06:03:07 PM »
Platitudes: using the universal to avoid the personal.
I suspect he knew what he was talking about.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2014, 06:04:07 PM »
It is financial, otherwise their lawyer wouldn't insist on invoices and receipts. I heard her tell the AFP journalist who knew almost nothing about the case that the McCanns were entitled to that amount of money, not GA.
I suspect that the lawyer here is exceeding her mission. I don't think that the McCanns decided to sue GA mainly for money (to invest in the fund, of course..).

What I mean is that the payout is not going to be enormous. Then there is the matter of the cost of bringing the actions. On balance it is hardly worth it financially for the McCanns, nomatter what the verdict.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2014, 06:05:05 PM »
I suspect he knew what he was talking about.

I am sure of it, too.

The point is the way he chose to frame it.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2014, 06:05:14 PM »
I think the international sightings and publicity campaign in general are really a diversion from reality. Chasing the rainbow's end rather than focusing on what is in front of you.
And then ?
Campaigns to maintain the feeling of guilt at a distance ?

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #70 on: February 25, 2014, 06:06:53 PM »
And then ?
Campaigns to maintain the feeling of guilt at a distance ?

Yes. Keep the campaign going as long as possible to avoid reality. Not to address it.

A very sad perversity.

Offline Lace

Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2014, 06:10:24 PM »
Just observing a certain reality, or perhaps a built up reality.

Sorry Anne don't understand what you mean by that.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #72 on: February 25, 2014, 06:11:40 PM »
What I mean is that the payout is not going to be enormous. Then there is the matter of the cost of bringing the actions. On balance it is hardly worth it financially for the McCanns, nomatter what the verdict.
How do you know ? Why is Isabel Duarte gathering proofs that GA and the other accused ones made that amount of money, an amount that should be invested in the "search" ?

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #73 on: February 25, 2014, 06:13:08 PM »
Yes. Keep the campaign going as long as possible to avoid reality. Not to address it.

A very sad perversity.
What for ? To escape the feeling of guilt ?

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The psychology of it all - Is guilt deflected in other ways?
« Reply #74 on: February 25, 2014, 06:14:55 PM »
Sorry Anne don't understand what you mean by that.
If what happened to Madeleine happened because her parents neglected to be nearby, then they can consider that they "let her down".
But what if the circumstances were different ?