DCI Redwood now admits Madeleine may not have left the apartment alive.

[Cariad]

Are you relying solely on  a newsaper quote as you don't know in what context these remarks were made

True. I don't know why they don't televise these things. It would be much easier than having to make corrections and retractions.

[Mr Gray]

True. I don't know why they don't televise these things. It would be much easier than having to make corrections and retractions.

I don't know if you have seen this amend......

 This article was amended on 21 March 2014. The earlier version stated that Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood had said the assumption that Madeleine had been alive when she left the apartment "may not follow with all our thinking" on the case. To clarify: those quoted words actually came after Redwood had referred to the assumption that Madeleine had been abducted. However, Redwood did say during the same press conference that police were considering the possibility that Madeleine was not alive when taken from the apartment as well as the possibility that she was.

[Cariad]

I don't know if you have seen this amend......

 This article was amended on 21 March 2014. The earlier version stated that Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood had said the assumption that Madeleine had been alive when she left the apartment "may not follow with all our thinking" on the case. To clarify: those quoted words actually came after Redwood had referred to the assumption that Madeleine had been abducted. However, Redwood did say during the same press conference that police were considering the possibility that Madeleine was not alive when taken from the apartment as well as the possibility that she was.

Seen it? I've posted it about four times on this very thread! 

[Mr Gray]

 The context was a press conference and the remarks were clarified after publication.

 There are doubts re abduction.
 There are doubts as to whether Maddie was alive when she left the apartment.

 So, it is possible that a body was removed from 5a and that the person who removed it was not a stranger.

We don't have the full transcript...so we don't know the context the remark was made in

[pegasus]

IMO the killed by intruder hypothesis is incorrect but if SY do choose to examine it would they consider it could explain all of Eddies signals?

[icabodcrane]

IMO the killed by intruder hypothesis is incorrect but if SY do choose to examine it would they consider it could explain all of Eddies signals?

It wouldn't explain  any  of the cadaver dog signals

...   not unless Scotland Yard presume an intruder killed Madeleine and then waited for at least an hour and a half before removing her dead body   (  that's the minimum time it would have taken for cadaver odour to have been detectable to the dogs )

Then,  of course,  there is the claimed checking regime by the McCanns ...  if, for some inexplicable reason,  an intruder   had  waited an hour and a half before removing the body it would still leave Gerry's  'proud father'  moment at 9.10pm  ...  you see,  Madeleine would have to have been already dead at that point

So no Pegasus,   Scotland can not reconcile the cadaver dog alerts with the theory that an intruder killed Madeleine

[Wonderfulspam]

It wouldn't explain  any  of the cadaver dog signals

...   not unless Scotland Yard presume an intruder killed Madeleine and then waited for at least an hour and a half before removing her dead body   (  that's the minimum time it would have taken for cadaver odour to have been detectable to the dogs )

Then,  of course,  there is the claimed checking regime by the McCanns ...  if, for some inexplicable reason,  an intruder   had  waited an hour and a half before removing the body it would still leave Gerry's  'proud father'  moment at 9.10pm  ...  you see,  Madeleine would have to have been already dead at that point

So no Pegasus,   Scotland can not reconcile the cadaver dog alerts with the theory that an intruder killed Madeleine

A source close to the McCanns' solicitors said the smell on Mrs McCann could be explained by being in contact with corpses while working as a GP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html


Hounding of the McCanns The Sun
 
By ALEX PEAKE and VERONICA LORRAINE
Published: Today, 05 September 2008
 
THESE were the scenes as two police sniffer dogs investigated the disappearance of little Madeleine McCann — and left her shell-shocked parents wrongly in the frame.
 
The hounds' findings persuaded bungling Portuguese cops to name doctors Kate and Gerry as official suspects in the mystery.
 
Now video footage obtained by The Sun — and revealed for the first time today — lays bare the flimsy evidence used to build the case against them.
 
The 2½-hour film, shot on a police camcorder, chronicles the work of two specially-trained British sniffer dogs. It details the moments when the springer spaniels apparently detected:
 
* The scent of a dead body in the McCanns' rented Renault Scenic, hired 25 days after Maddie vanished shortly before her fourth birthday in May 2007
 
* An aroma of blood in a bedroom cupboard in the family's Praia da Luz holiday apartment, and
 
* A smell of death on Kate's clothes.
 
Dog handler and ex-PC Martin Grimes is seen working with the dogs, named Keela and Eddie, while Portuguese detectives look on.
 
He remarks on camera that Keela will detect "very old" blood. Yet local cops quickly leapt on the findings.

Shortly after the dogs were drafted in, police made Kate and Gerry, both 40, "arguidos" — official suspects.

Cleared

Although the couple, from Rothley, Leics, were eventually cleared, they went through ten months of added hell as they led the search for Maddie, who has still not been found.

Last night ex-Flying Squad commander John O'Connor said: "I find it absolutely appalling the detectives can treat the McCanns as official suspects on the back of such flimsy evidence."

The Sun's never-before-seen footage gives the true picture of how the investigation was conducted.

It shows the dogs in the McCanns' Algarve holiday home — apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Praia de Luz.

Eddie is first to be taken into the two-bed apartment and spends nearly 30 minutes sniffing around.

He barks twice — once in a bedroom and once at a spot behind a sofa underneath a living room window.

Martin says: "As soon as I came in the dog is very excited. From his body language it would appear he has picked up a scent that he recognises.


"There is enough scent there for him to give me a bark indication."

After Eddie leaves the apartment, Martin takes in Keela. She can be seen freezing — a sign she has found something — underneath the window where Eddie had earlier barked.

Martin says on camera: "The crime scene dog has given me a positive indication. That indicates to me there is some human blood there. She will detect blood that is very old and find anybody’s blood."

While Portuguese cops carried out DNA tests on "fluids" found in the flat, it has never been revealed if any blood was found.

Detectives also asked Martin to use his dogs on the McCanns' hire car.

Eddie is seen barking at the driver's door before standing still in the boot, then scrabbling in one corner.

Martin says: "We had a reaction from the dog. The scent is coming out of the sealed door."

The dogs also sniffed items of clothing — and the film shows Eddie again picking up a scent on some of Kate's.

The family GP has insisted she came into contact with at least SIX dead bodies before going on holiday with her husband and three children.

Martin and the spaniels are then taken round the apartment hired by the McCanns after Maddie vanished. No evidence is uncovered there.

Portuguese police used the findings as a basis for their theory that Maddie had died in the family’s apartment on the night she went missing.

The scent in the car convinced them the couple had hidden her body and later disposed of it, despite the world's media watching their every movement.

Police files released last month showed that all DNA evidence against the McCanns had proved inconclusive.

Mr O'Connor, with more than 30 years' police experience, last night blasted the "ridiculous" Portuguese probe.

He said: "This clearly shows they were clutching at straws. It seems to me they have used the dogs to reinforce their own prejudices.

"As far as I am concerned they suspected Kate and Gerry or their party of being involved from day one.

"They made up their mind so, when the dogs detected the scent, as far as they were concerned that was it.

"But the dogs found nothing that could be used as evidence in a court of law. They are a tool to finding conclusive evidence, nothing more."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html

[ferryman]

Why would any dog attending a crime scene be picking stuff up in its mouth?

[pegasus]

It wouldn't explain  any  of the cadaver dog signals

...   not unless Scotland Yard presume an intruder killed Madeleine and then waited for at least an hour and a half before removing her dead body   (  that's the minimum time it would have taken for cadaver odour to have been detectable to the dogs )

Then,  of course,  there is the claimed checking regime by the McCanns ...  if, for some inexplicable reason,  an intruder   had  waited an hour and a half before removing the body it would still leave Gerry's  'proud father'  moment at 9.10pm  ...  you see,  Madeleine would have to have been already dead at that point

So no Pegasus,   Scotland can not reconcile the cadaver dog alerts with the theory that an intruder killed Madeleine

"an hour and a half ... that's the minimum time it would have taken for cadaver odour to have been detectable to the dogs"
I assume that SY (when considering Eddie's alerts in the context of a killed by intruder hypothesis) would be aware of the much shorter required period stated by Mr Grime.
Could not this hypothesis explain directly the lounge, garden, bedroom, clothing, and cat signals?

[ferryman]

Everything Eddie picked up in his mouth was taken to the gym in the same cardboard box.

If anything in that box was contaminated, any scent would have been cross-transferred to all items in the box.

So why did Eddie pick up only a couple of them?

[jassi]

"an hour and a half ... that's the minimum time it would have taken for cadaver odour to have been detectable to the dogs"
I assume that SY (when considering Eddie's alerts in the context of a killed by intruder hypothesis) would be aware of the much shorter required period stated by Mr Grime.
Could not this hypothesis explain directly the lounge, garden, bedroom, clothing, and cat signals?

 Cats?  - I thought we were discussing dogs, but on reflection, I assume you mean cuddlecat .

What is this short time mentioned by Grime?

[Cariad]

It wouldn't explain  any  of the cadaver dog signals

...   not unless Scotland Yard presume an intruder killed Madeleine and then waited for at least an hour and a half before removing her dead body   (  that's the minimum time it would have taken for cadaver odour to have been detectable to the dogs )

Then,  of course,  there is the claimed checking regime by the McCanns ...  if, for some inexplicable reason,  an intruder   had  waited an hour and a half before removing the body it would still leave Gerry's  'proud father'  moment at 9.10pm  ...  you see,  Madeleine would have to have been already dead at that point

So no Pegasus,   Scotland can not reconcile the cadaver dog alerts with the theory that an intruder killed Madeleine

Well, an intruder hanging around for an hour and a half would explain that magically moving door, I suppose. I mean, something has too, right?

Otherwise we're left with "Door ajar" "door much wider open" door returned to ajar position(after adoring father moment)" "door much wider" "door Wide open, whooshing curtains, shutters up".


Unless an abductor was popping in and out, what could account for that?

[pegasus]

Everything Eddie picked up in his mouth taken to the gym in the same cardboard box.

If anything in that box was contaminated, any scent would have been cross-transferred to all items in the box.

So why did Eddie pick up only a couple of them?

A good question.
IMO the clothing items in the "living area" box were placed in the box folded and one above the other.
Contact transfer from one item would be to the item immediately above and the item immediately below?

[icabodcrane]

"an hour and a half ... that's the minimum time it would have taken for cadaver odour to have been detectable to the dogs"
I assume that SY (when considering Eddie's alerts in the context of a killed by intruder hypothesis) would be aware of the much shorter required period stated by Mr Grime .
Could not this hypothesis explain directly the lounge, garden, bedroom, clothing, and cat signals?

Bit in bold 

What  'much shorter required period'  ?

[Mr Gray]

It wouldn't explain  any  of the cadaver dog signals

...   not unless Scotland Yard presume an intruder killed Madeleine and then waited for at least an hour and a half before removing her dead body   (  that's the minimum time it would have taken for cadaver odour to have been detectable to the dogs )

Then,  of course,  there is the claimed checking regime by the McCanns ...  if, for some inexplicable reason,  an intruder   had  waited an hour and a half before removing the body it would still leave Gerry's  'proud father'  moment at 9.10pm  ...  you see,  Madeleine would have to have been already dead at that point

So no Pegasus,   Scotland can not reconcile the cadaver dog alerts with the theory that an intruder killed Madeleine

the glaring mistake in your logic is that the alerts have not been confirmed as cadaver by Grime