The Smith sighting revisited.

[sadie]

30 minutes in the bar not 20.  Dolphin receipt was 9:27. Get to Kelly's Bar around 9:30 leave at around 10pm.

Getting back to basics.
Anyone know if the receipt machine at Dolphins was correct timewise?  Cos without that knowledge, we dont have a sound base to work from.

Anyone know igf the group left one of the men to pay the bill at Dolphins whilst the rest of the group went across the road, 33 metres not 50 metres, to Kellys bar?  Drinks could have been ordered and on their way before the person who paid at the Dolphinn even arrived

A 30+ metre metre walk would take a matter of seconds, well under a minute

From Kellys Bar to the junction of R.25 Abril with R. Escola, a distance of some 70 metres, but with a flight of steps, shall we make an educted guess of 1min30secs cos of the steps?  Probably a good deal less.

Then everybody gives different times of leaving Kellys .... inconsistencies abound  .... which is the norm .... and as any reasonable person would expect


Jeez !  This whole thing is too woolley and imprecise to have any real understanding of the exact time they met Smithman.

We are kidding ourselves if we think we can pin it down to five minutes. let alone one minute

[Wonderfulspam]

10:03.

[misty]

Have we ever seen an artist's impression portraying the exact position in which Smithman was carrying the child?
I'm struggling from the statements as to whether she was lying sideways on or was more upright with her chest against his.

[pathfinder73]

Getting back to basics.
Anyone know if the receipt machine at Dolphins was correct timewise?  Cos without that knowledge, we dont have a sound base to work from.

Anyone know igf the group left one of the men to pay the bill at Dolphins whilst the rest of the group went across the road, 33 metres not 50 metres, to Kellys bar?  Drinks could have been ordered and on their way before the person who paid at the Dolphinn even arrived

A 30+ metre metre walk would take a matter of seconds, well under a minute

From Kellys Bar to the junction of R.25 Abril with R. Escola, a distance of some 70 metres, but with a flight of steps, shall we make an educted guess of 1min30secs cos of the steps?  Probably a good deal less.

Then everybody gives different times of leaving Kellys .... inconsistencies abound  .... which is the norm .... and as any reasonable person would expect


Jeez !  This whole thing is too woolley and imprecise to have any real understanding of the exact time they met Smithman.

We are kidding ourselves if we think we can pin it down to five minutes. let alone one minute

Aoife said 10pm so think what you like as it doesn't change her statement. Smithman foolishly gave the time away to completely rule him out of the sighting.

"On the same night, on the other side of Aldeia da Luz, the Smith family – four adults and five children – have just paid for their dinner at the Dolphins restaurant. The credit card receipt was clocked at 9.27 p.m. on the 3rd of May 2007. The Smiths go out for a drink at Kelly’s bar." (TOTL)

[pathfinder73]

Have we ever seen an artist's impression portraying the exact position in which Smithman was carrying the child?
I'm struggling from the statements as to whether she was lying sideways on or was more upright with her chest against his.

"He (MS) has not slept and is worried sick. He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing."



http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

[misty]

"He (MS) has not slept and is worried sick. He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing."

If you take that as a precise position, how on earth did any of them see the child's face/eyes?

[pathfinder73]

If you take that as a precise position, how on earth did any of them see the child's face/eyes?

None of them saw her face against/on his shoulder but they saw her eyes shut in a deep sleep.

Update: I don't know if any of them saw her eyes shut. That's a question for the yard to ask.

[sadie]

Aoife said 10pm so think what you like as it doesn't change her statement. Smithman foolishly gave the time away to completely rule him out of the sighting.

"On the same night, on the other side of Aldeia da Luz, the Smith family – four adults and five children – have just paid for their dinner at the Dolphins restaurant. The credit card receipt was clocked at 9.27 p.m. on the 3rd of May 2007. The Smiths go out for a drink at Kelly’s bar." (TOTL)

As I said before "You KNOW FOR CERTAIN that the bill printing clock was accurate?"

Also, "You know for certain that Aoifes statement which was out of line with Peters and Martins, is the only correct one?"

Of course you dont, unless ....... &%+((£ .......... [Nah, I dont think so]



You are just trying to adjust the actual facts to fit your theory.  Disbelieve two witnesses in an attempt to make your theory work.

Sad really that you are so desperate 

[sadie]

None of them saw her face against/on his shoulder but they saw her eyes shut in a deep sleep.

Impossible to see the eyes without seeing the face.

[pathfinder73]

As I said before "You KNOW FOR CERTAIN that the bill printing clock was accurate?"

Also, "You know for certain that Aoifes statement which was out of line with Peters and Martins, is the only correct one?"

Of course you dont, unless ....... &%+((£ .......... [Nah, I dont think so]



You are just trying to adjust the actual facts to fit your theory.  Disbelieve two witnesses in an attempt to make your theory work.

Sad really that you are so desperate 

I'm not adjusting any facts. Aoife said they left at 10 so the sighting would be 10:02/03 and that connects to another time said. It's witness statements not mine!

"Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left." (AS)

[pathfinder73]

Impossible to see the eyes without seeing the face.

Don't talk nonsense. You can't see her nose/mouth which is below her closed eyes which possibly could be seen.

[Benice]

"He (MS) has not slept and is worried sick. He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing."

But according to the Times article Mr. Smith has since changed his mind and no longer believes it was Gerry he saw.   M. Smith has always been swift to threaten legal action against newspapers who misrepresent him.

For a newspaper to claim that he had changed his mind if that was not true, would hardly be 'small beer' -and  I do not believe he would have ignored it if the opposite of what he believed had been printed.       

However, the lack of a withdrawal or an apology from the Times strongly suggests that no complaint or request for a retraction was made by Martin Smith on that occasion -  and IMO that can only be because the article was accurate and he no longer believes it was Gerry he saw on May 3rd.

[misty]

Don't talk nonsense. You can't see her nose/mouth which is below her closed eyes which could be seen.

The way Gerry is carrying Sean, you would only be able to see Sean's eyes (if visible) from the rear of Gerry. I don't see anything in the statements to say that any of the Smiths looked back - & in those circumstances they would also have seen what he was wearing on top.
Does it not puzzle you that SY didn't release a complete efit showing Smithman complete with clothing, & carrying a child in the same position as described by the Smith family?

[pathfinder73]

The way Gerry is carrying Sean, you would only be able to see Sean's eyes (if visible) from the rear of Gerry. I don't see anything in the statements to say that any of the Smiths looked back - & in those circumstances they would also have seen what he was wearing on top.
Does it not puzzle you that SY didn't release a complete efit showing Smithman complete with clothing, & carrying a child in the same position as described by the Smith family?

Your correct they would have to look back to see her eyes. It's up to the yard to question the family to see if anyone did.

[sadie]

Aoife said 10pm so think what you like as it doesn't change her statement. Smithman foolishly gave the time away to completely rule him out of the sighting.

"On the same night, on the other side of Aldeia da Luz, the Smith family – four adults and five children – have just paid for their dinner at the Dolphins restaurant. The credit card receipt was clocked at 9.27 p.m. on the 3rd of May 2007. The Smiths go out for a drink at Kelly’s bar." (TOTL)

Yep Aoife did say 10pm, but that goes against what the other two said.

Soooo, you believe one against two?

And it would not take 3 minutes to walk about 70 metres, even with the steps.


Really, PF, it does look as tho you are desperate to fit your theory, rather than the otherway around
Let's be clear.  I am not absolutely saying that your timings are wrong, but according to the evidence we have it seems very unlikely that you are right.  It is all very woolley.



By the way, was it you that was saying that Smithman took Madeleine at 9pm and hid her somewhere half way? 
Why do you think that and where do you think he hid her.?