The whooshing curtains, net curtains or both?

[pegasus]

Hopefully it is accepted now that as well as the main curtains there were definitely also net curtains.

[pegasus]

Basically these threads about curtains/window/shutter/door/prints/wind all boil down to the question, was the last checker telling the truth about the scene in that bedroom?
I've already shown that there definitely was a place for the wind coming in the window to exit by (the hood above the cooker). And that the conclusion that the last checker opened the window is absolutely wrong because it's based on the mistaken use of a photo of a fingerprint of a policeman from the opposite end of the apartment. And pointed out what should be the b obvious, that if there is only one mobile child in the apartment, and a door opens wider, it must be that child (and not some imaginary intruder) who opened it wider.
I suggest the last checker is telling the truth, and had absolutely no part in or knowledge of how the actual disappearance happened.

[Wonderfulspam]

Basically these threads about curtains/window/shutter/door/prints/wind all boil down to the question, was the last checker telling the truth about the scene in that bedroom?
I've already shown that there definitely was a place for the wind coming in the window to exit by (the hood above the cooker). And that the conclusion that the last checker opened the window is absolutely wrong because it's based on the mistaken use of a photo of a fingerprint of a policeman from the opposite end of the apartment. And pointed out what should be the b obvious, that if there is only one mobile child in the apartment, and a door opens wider, it must be that child (and not some imaginary intruder) who opened it wider.
I suggest the last checker is telling the truth, and had absolutely no part in or knowledge of how the actual disappearance happened.

The last checker gave 2 versions, as did the first one.

Topic: Did Kate McCann ever explain why she changed her story?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1126.msg31582#msg31582

Topic; The locked front door vs the unlocked patio door issue.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4237.0

Topic: Why did Kate & Gerry change their seating position at the tapas bar?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1384.msg39729#msg39729

[sadie]

Basically these threads about curtains/window/shutter/door/prints/wind all boil down to the question, was the last checker telling the truth about the scene in that bedroom?
I've already shown that there definitely was a place for the wind coming in the window to exit by (the hood above the cooker). And that the conclusion that the last checker opened the window is absolutely wrong because it's based on the mistaken use of a photo of a fingerprint of a policeman from the opposite end of the apartment. And pointed out what should be the b obvious, that if there is only one mobile child in the apartment, and a door opens wider, it must be that child (and not some imaginary intruder) who opened it wider.
I suggest the last checker is telling the truth, and had absolutely no part in or knowledge of how the actual disappearance happened.

Actually, if I am understanding it correctly, any gusts via that window would have the effect of closing the door rather than opening it.

I do have an understanding of forces, but I am not any sort orf expert on winds, but that is what it seems to me, unless the direction of the wind was very variable.


However I do know that with water flow, which must be a little similar to air flow, there are all sorts of ancilliary matters that must be taken into consideration

[Alice Purjorick]

Actually, if I am understanding it correctly, any gusts via that window would have the effect of closing the door rather than opening it.

I do have an understanding of forces, but I am not any sort orf expert on winds, but that is what it seems to me, unless the direction of the wind was very variable.


However I do know that with water flow, which must be a little similar to air flow, there are all sorts of ancilliary matters that must be taken into consideration

Basic fluid mechanics dear b******d up by liquids being incompressible and gases not so.
However the wind itself does not have to directly move the door or curtains. It can do so by causing a venturi effect.
Do we know in which direction the curtains were alleged to have whooshed ? ie inwards outwards or sideways?

[Wonderfulspam]

Basic fluid mechanics dear b******d up by liquids being incompressible and gases not so.
However the wind itself does not have to directly move the door or curtains. It can do so by causing a venturi effect.
Do we know in which direction the curtains were alleged to have whooshed ? ie inwards outwards or sideways?

They went  'ssswishhhh' , or something like that, it's hard to put into words the exact noise they made but their movement was a kind of out & opening movement, apparently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lhACS6ck-Dw#t=69

'It was like a gust of wind kind of just blew them open.'


Like

So there may not have actually been a gust of wind then, just something like one.

Kind of

The curtains may not actually have opened as described.

Just,

apparently it wouldn't have been that difficult either.

[sadie]

Basic fluid mechanics dear b******d up by liquids being incompressible and gases not so.
However the wind itself does not have to directly move the door or curtains. It can do so by causing a venturi effect.
Do we know in which direction the curtains were alleged to have whooshed ? ie inwards outwards or sideways?

Aw Gawd, it is 55 years since I knew about the Venturi effect.  Have forgotten all that stuff, something to do with a narrow orifice and its effect on flow, if I remember correctly. 

Must have a chat with hubby, he will remember



My understanding is that the curtains whooshed inwards and the door slammed the same way at about 10pm.


Whilst early on, the door opened in the opposite direction, BUT it could be that, early on, the window had NOT been opened yet..

Could have been, of course, that the door was opened by Madeleine popping to the loo, or an intruder.


.... or even as Pegasus thinks, but I think he has it wrong tbh

[Eleanor]

I have no idea of what any of you are talking about.  Sometimes doors slam, as in the holiday house that I manage.  And in my own house sometimes.
It is beyond defining.

You either believe that it happened, or you don't.  And no doubt you can all come up with reasons for why it did or didn't.

Is this even relevant?

But, oh gosh.  At least it is On Topic.  Carry on.  I am going for a lie down.

[John]

I can't see how both full length curtains would have whooshed if one set was located firmly and securely behind the closed window pane and effectively pinned between the spare bed and the wall unless of course the curtains and nets weren't open as far as we were all led to believe in the first place.  Mat didn't think they were open when he did his check after 9.30pm, only that the room looked brighter than it should have been and not a full black out as he had expected.

[Alice Purjorick]

I can't see how both full length curtains would have whooshed when one set was located firmly and securely behind the closed window pane and effectively pinned between the spare bed and the wall.

I agree entirely! I doubt the whooshing phenomenon occurred.
Basically it is improbable but not completely impossible. Like so many things in this case.
But when one has to believe a string of improbable things to make another thing true one has the feeling one is being flimflammed.

[slartibartfast]

I agree entirely! I doubt the whooshing phenomenon occurred.
Basically it is improbable but not completely impossible. Like so many things in this case.
But when one has to believe a string of improbable things to make another thing true one has the feeling one is being flimflammed.

"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

[John]

Mat looked into the kids bedroom a mere 30 minutes before Kate and he never reported open curtains and an open shutter.  So what changed?

[Mr Gray]

The facts speaks for themself.  Mat looked into the kids bedroom a mere 30 minutes before Kate and he never reported open curtains and an open shutter.  So what changed?

It's like a lot of things in life...if and when we know the answer it will be a very simple explanation. I'm convinced maddie was abducted based on the available facts

[pegasus]

Here are photos of the kitchen vent AND the 3-story high chimney it connects to.
The high chimney has a strong chimney effect.
Add to that the venturi effect when wind blows over the top of chimney.
It was this kitchen vent and vent chimney which sucked the air in through the open window.

[Brietta]

Here are photos of the kitchen vent AND the 3-story high chimney it connects to.
The high chimney has a strong chimney effect.
Add to that the venturi effect when wind blows over the top of chimney.
It was this kitchen vent and vent chimney which sucked the air in through the open window.

Found this illustration ...