Author Topic: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?  (Read 412687 times)

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Offline John

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #270 on: April 16, 2015, 02:34:01 AM »
The motion sensitive light she refers to was probably located further along the path adjacent to the car park as no such light existed outside apartment 5a.



« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 09:45:39 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #271 on: April 16, 2015, 02:43:30 AM »
Members are reminded that this thread is not the place to post speculations or theories.  Posts in breach of the forum rules have been removed.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #272 on: April 16, 2015, 03:28:09 AM »
The translation in the files makes it clear that it is the poolside or patio doors to which she referred ... should have been easy enough to determine if there was a light of the type described at the time in question.

References regarding which is classed as front and which as back door has caused nearly as much confusion and accusation as the misinterpretation of Kate McCann asking for a priest.

**snip
After this she returned to the apartment in a state of shock, it was obvious that there was no good reason for him to be hiding in the darkness outside the apartment. She said that the front door was the main door to enter the apartment, situated at the back. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm

The only problem with the translation is that it is rubbish.  "She said that the front door was the main door to enter the apartment, situated at the back."

C'mon.  That is gibberish, as spoken by someone who's first language is not English, or by Google.  Was the front door really at the back?  Was Margaret nipping out and in of the patio doors, much like the McCanns?

Was the man hiding in bushes that don't exist outside the front?  (NB Car park, I mean here.)

Was the man hiding in bushes outside the rear?  (NB Patio doors this time.)  Ok, what bushes?  When did we get bushes behind 5A?  We got bushes not in the translation but in the Mirror article.  Oh, merde!

So let me take the Mirror bushes away and return to the translation.

Back door aka patio.  Man is in the garden, or somewhere up the steps, or at the garden gate.  Or at least in the alley. Not a mention of any of these.  Any of these would raise suspicion, and not about rats.  Rats = normal, man in garden at 00:30 = big trouble.

Front door aka car park. A pedestrian walkway in front of 5A, then a metre high wall, then a car park.  Nowhere to hide with a motion sensitive light.  It probably does get rats, but how was Margaret alerted to this?

What's up, old man?

Offline sadie

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #273 on: April 16, 2015, 09:11:50 AM »


BUMPED

I find Margaret Hall's statement no more credible or incredible than anything else which is in the public domain.

According to Margaret Hall she spoke to Metodo3 who contacted the PJ because she had heard nothing from her local police to whom she had reported the incident.

I presume she spoke to them in English and they transcribed her information into Spanish (if there is no translation into Portuguese it rather suggests that no-one from the investigation bothered to read it).

If Margaret Hall had not been employed in the capacity she stated … why has no -one come forward to share that information with us?

The fact that John Hill failed to mention rats is not in the least surprising ~ he didn't mention the very recent burglaries in the block either.

In the tabloid article to which Margaret hall contributed, she stated that she was on her way home, was so unnerved by the encounter that she ran back to the apartment and had to be escorted home.

All easily verifiable … and would have been worth the police checking it out, I think, particularly as she says she had a clear view of his face.

**snip
Margaret yesterday told the Mirror she saw the prowler hiding in the dark as she left through the back entrance after baby-sitting at apartment 5A of the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, the year before Maddy was taken from the apartment.

She screamed in terror as the unshaven figure stepped out.

His movement set off a security light and the nanny clearly saw his face. "He came towards me saying 'no, no'. I just turned round and ran back to the apartment," she said.

Shaking with fear, she was later led back to her own flat.
 

**snip
She was back in the UK when she heard of Maddy's disappearance in May last year - and a chill ran down her spine when she realised the little girl had been taken from the apartment where she had worked.

Her mind immediately pictured the scruffy, long-haired stranger.

She told police in her home town of Bolton and was interviewed but no photofit was ever issued.

**snip
After hearing nothing from the police in the UK, she went straight to Metodo 3, the private investigators working for Kate and Gerry.
They passed her information to Portuguese police, who dismissed it as being "out-dated".
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-nannys-new-sketch-329189

Margaret Hall did not make claims on his nationality from “No! No!” in the same Mirror article she says,
"He had said 'no' in English but he was not English because of his skin colouring. He looked more Portuguese than anything."

As I said no more and no less credible than any other statement given in good faith ... but with at least two opportunities for confirmation ...
(a) a check with the people she was babysitting for if she had returned, and whoever escorted her home
(b) did her bosses remember the rat incident


I seem to remember also that a previous occupant of 5A had complained about an outside light not working or being broken ... I cannot find a cite for it, maybe someone can help? ... the motion sensitive light mentioned by Margaret hall was my interest in this ... wonder if this was the broken light I remember being mentioned?


No it wasn't ... the light I read about was the one at the front door ... that would be another point for verification of Margaret Hall's statement ... was there a motion sensitive light in the back area of the apartment?


**snip
We would always enter and leave the apartment through the main door with gave way to the parking area and the street. We did not use the pool-side doors as it was not possible to close them from the outside. It was get very dark outside our door and that left us a bit scared. The darkness was due to a faulty/wasted bulb.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLO-D_AMBROSIO.htm

Well done Brietta.  You found things that I was unable to find and gathered them together.  A lot of work went into your post.

The whole thread [last part anyway, I haven't read it all] is very good.  Good sleuthing guys.

stephen25000

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Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #274 on: April 16, 2015, 09:19:44 AM »
The only problem with the translation is that it is rubbish.  "She said that the front door was the main door to enter the apartment, situated at the back."

C'mon.  That is gibberish, as spoken by someone who's first language is not English, or by Google.  Was the front door really at the back?  Was Margaret nipping out and in of the patio doors, much like the McCanns?

Was the man hiding in bushes that don't exist outside the front?  (NB Car park, I mean here.)

Was the man hiding in bushes outside the rear?  (NB Patio doors this time.)  Ok, what bushes?  When did we get bushes behind 5A?  We got bushes not in the translation but in the Mirror article.  Oh, merde!

So let me take the Mirror bushes away and return to the translation.

Back door aka patio.  Man is in the garden, or somewhere up the steps, or at the garden gate.  Or at least in the alley. Not a mention of any of these.  Any of these would raise suspicion, and not about rats.  Rats = normal, man in garden at 00:30 = big trouble.

Front door aka car park. A pedestrian walkway in front of 5A, then a metre high wall, then a car park.  Nowhere to hide with a motion sensitive light.  It probably does get rats, but how was Margaret alerted to this?

Unfortunately, it won't stop the devoted mccann supporters from clutching at straws.



Offline John

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #275 on: April 16, 2015, 09:52:06 AM »
I agree that the translated statement is hard to understand, one persons back door is another's front and so on.   What we have to ask though is would a nanny leave by the patio door or the main door which led directly into the car park?

My own preference is the solid front door and the bushes she refers to are the overgrown trees immediately adjacent to apartment 5a but as for the PIR operated light, that's another mystery.
 
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 09:57:08 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #276 on: April 16, 2015, 10:48:36 AM »
Unfortunately, it won't stop the devoted mccann supporters from clutching at straws.

There could be lots of reasons why a man was near the apartment, ranging from waiting for a friend to having a sly 'comfort break'. If he was 'casing the joint' with child abduction in mind he is unlikely to have approached the same apartment nine months later after this fright. I wonder what a typical Portuguese person looks like? I had occasion to work with a group of Portuguese people some years ago and was interested to see the variety in their looks.
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Offline DCI

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Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #277 on: April 16, 2015, 01:08:29 PM »
I agree that the translated statement is hard to understand, one persons back door is another's front and so on.   What we have to ask though is would a nanny leave by the patio door or the main door which led directly into the car park?

My own preference is the solid front door and the bushes she refers to are the overgrown trees immediately adjacent to apartment 5a but as for the PIR operated light, that's another mystery.

Mystery solved, I believe. Right hand wall above cupboard.

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Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #278 on: April 16, 2015, 07:21:53 PM »
Mystery solved, I believe. Right hand wall above cupboard.



Don't know what you meant by cupboard, therefore I will only point out the following.

We do not have cupboards outside of our properties in Portugal.  We keep our cups, and our cupboards inside. 

What goes on the exterior of the property (so it can be accessed from a service personnel outside without entering) are the meters.  Gas, water, electricity.

Where are your meters?  In the UK, my water meter was in the pavement in front of my property.  The gas and electricity meters were on the outside of my house.

Now that we are done, hopefully, with cupboards and meters, what PIR?

I am not seeing a PIR.  I am seeing a brown streak on the wall.

Let me assume it actually is a PIR.  Then I have to work out how it made ratman's foot look like a noisy rat at 00:30 before Margaret could make out it was a brown shoe attached to a Portuguese lurker.

Folks, the reason the Madeleine case is on-going is people to the rear of 5A - people to the front of 5A - lurkers in the 5A stairwell - rain-sodden note on the 1st anniversary - Gerry in Urbanisation  Melody - Scenic in Huelva - body in non-existent sewer outlet.

There was no movement activated light to the front or the rear of 5A.   No person lurking in the garden.  No person lurking in the car park.

Kindly stick to hard evidence.
What's up, old man?

Offline Anna

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #279 on: April 16, 2015, 08:17:16 PM »
Don't know what you meant by cupboard, therefore I will only point out the following.

We do not have cupboards outside of our properties in Portugal.  We keep our cups, and our cupboards inside. 

What goes on the exterior of the property (so it can be accessed from a service personnel outside without entering) are the meters.  Gas, water, electricity.

Where are your meters?  In the UK, my water meter was in the pavement in front of my property.  The gas and electricity meters were on the outside of my house.

Now that we are done, hopefully, with cupboards and meters, what PIR?

I am not seeing a PIR.  I am seeing a brown streak on the wall.

Let me assume it actually is a PIR.  Then I have to work out how it made ratman's foot look like a noisy rat at 00:30 before Margaret could make out it was a brown shoe attached to a Portuguese lurker.

Folks, the reason the Madeleine case is on-going is people to the rear of 5A - people to the front of 5A - lurkers in the 5A stairwell - rain-sodden note on the 1st anniversary - Gerry in Urbanisation  Melody - Scenic in Huelva - body in non-existent sewer outlet.

There was no movement activated light to the front or the rear of 5A.   No person lurking in the garden.  No person lurking in the car park.

Kindly stick to hard evidence.

So what is that protruding from the wall above the small doors, to.... shining?


« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 08:21:23 PM by Anna »
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Offline DCI

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Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #280 on: April 16, 2015, 08:45:55 PM »
So what is that protruding from the wall above the small doors, to.... shining?

Thanks, Anna. I didn't see that photo.
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Offline faithlilly

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #281 on: April 16, 2015, 09:19:31 PM »
So what is that protruding from the wall above the small doors, to.... shining?

Looks like an indistinct smudge to me Anna.
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Offline sadie

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #282 on: April 17, 2015, 12:31:26 AM »
The only problem with the translation is that it is rubbish.  "She said that the front door was the main door to enter the apartment, situated at the back."

C'mon.  That is gibberish, as spoken by someone who's first language is not English, or by Google.  Was the front door really at the back?  Was Margaret nipping out and in of the patio doors, much like the McCanns?

Was the man hiding in bushes that don't exist outside the front?  (NB Car park, I mean here.)

Was the man hiding in bushes outside the rear?  (NB Patio doors this time.)  Ok, what bushes?  When did we get bushes behind 5A?  We got bushes not in the translation but in the Mirror article.  Oh, merde!

So let me take the Mirror bushes away and return to the translation.

Back door aka patio.  Man is in the garden, or somewhere up the steps, or at the garden gate.  Or at least in the alley. Not a mention of any of these.  Any of these would raise suspicion, and not about rats.  Rats = normal, man in garden at 00:30 = big trouble.

Front door aka car park. A pedestrian walkway in front of 5A, then a metre high wall, then a car park.  Nowhere to hide with a motion sensitive light.  It probably does get rats, but how was Margaret alerted to this?
No, Shining, sorry but I think you have this one wrong.

It is perfectly understandable that Margearet got the front and back mixed up.  All forum world did too, because various reports both in papers and witness statements got them muddled as well.   In fact in the early days on here I had to make a big thing out of pointing out that the steps and patio were at the back, cos it was hopeless discussing it when different people got it the wrong way around.


Margaret would not have gone home through the rear patio doors.  She could not have locked them after she left.  Also as you correctly say the back patio has no buushes to hide behind.  It is raised 11 steps above ground level, so no bushes could grow there.

She went out of the front door and IMO either she moved several steps forward, or he was startled and activated the light that apparantly was there at the time.

Maybe, the sensors were directed along the pathway and did not point towards all the outer trees.  Maybe they were deliberately directed so that the sensor lights did not unnecessarily waken sleeping residents.  We just dont know.


I might add that we had movement sensors in our house and a dog that freely roamed.  She never jumped up except onto one seat.  We opened the sensor casing up and found several mini sensors each pointing in a different direction.  By blanking some of these off, we were able to protect our house from an intruder without the dog setting the alarm off.
I spent hours crawling around on my hands and knees whilst hubby discovered which sensors to blank off.


I wonder if this man was one of the guys interviewed by SY?  I wonder if they came back in the daylight and deliberately broke the light after having experienced it coming on when Margaret came out.


I see absolutely no reason to disbelieve Margaret; she just got her front and back of the building muddled .... as so many of us did to begin with.

Offline sadie

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #283 on: April 17, 2015, 12:56:38 AM »
Don't know what you meant by cupboard, therefore I will only point out the following.

We do not have cupboards outside of our properties in Portugal.  We keep our cups, and our cupboards inside. 

What goes on the exterior of the property (so it can be accessed from a service personnel outside without entering) are the meters.  Gas, water, electricity.

Where are your meters?  In the UK, my water meter was in the pavement in front of my property.  The gas and electricity meters were on the outside of my house.

Now that we are done, hopefully, with cupboards and meters, what PIR?

I am not seeing a PIR.  I am seeing a brown streak on the wall.

Let me assume it actually is a PIR.  Then I have to work out how it made ratman's foot look like a noisy rat at 00:30 before Margaret could make out it was a brown shoe attached to a Portuguese lurker.

Folks, the reason the Madeleine case is on-going is people to the rear of 5A - people to the front of 5A - lurkers in the 5A stairwell - rain-sodden note on the 1st anniversary - Gerry in Urbanisation  Melody - Scenic in Huelva - body in non-existent sewer outlet.

There was no movement activated light to the front or the rear of 5A.   No person lurking in the garden.  No person lurking in the car park.

Kindly stick to hard evidence.

Sorry again Shining

John posted some superb photos earlier in the thread. 

http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article128687.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/the-ocean-club-appartments-in-praia-da-luz-image-2-60553252.jpg



The sensor is, I believe, on the opposite side of the doorway, the LH side, just lower than the door knob.  May I suggest you enlarge the image.  You will see it clearly then.

If I have identified that correctly, and I think I have, then Margaret only had to take a step out of the front door and the light would have come on.


That light had been broken when Kate and Gerry were there.  Was it broken with Madeleines abduction in mind?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #284 on: April 17, 2015, 01:15:09 AM »

Sorry again Shining

John posted some superb photos earlier in the thread. 

http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article128687.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/the-ocean-club-appartments-in-praia-da-luz-image-2-60553252.jpg



The sensor is, I believe, on the opposite side of the doorway, the LH side, just lower than the door knob.  May I suggest you enlarge the image.  You will see it clearly then.

If I have identified that correctly, and I think I have, then Margaret only had to take a step out of the front door and the light would have come on.


That light had been broken when Kate and Gerry were there.  Was it broken with Madeleines abduction in mind?


Now there's a thought.