Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?

[Lace]

Rachel heard no crying on the 2nd and that is on record! From a witness who stayed in next door to their room. So it's unusual that Madeleine would say that the next morning.

That is why I think Madeleine was referring to the Tuesday night.

Children get confused about days at that age.

[pathfinder73]

That is why I think Madeleine was referring to the Tuesday night.

Children get confused about days at that age.

And why Amaral if he said he thinks it was probably said on the 2nd actually makes sense to most. The only independent witness of hearing crying was Pamela Fenn and she said it happened on the 1st.

[Lace]

His book is full of lies.  He even changes the date on which Madeleine spoke to her parents from the 3rd to the 2nd May to make it fit better with Mrs Fenns statement.  He also forgets to tell his readers that Madeleine mentioned Sean was crying as well as herself.   This is also a lie to make it fit in with Mrs Fenns statement that she only heard one child crying.

I have never seen a statement from a cleaner saying she cleaned the windows on May 2nd, and I agree with Lace that cleaning windows would be something carried out after one family had left and before the next family arrived  as part of the usual procedure.

As a matter of curiosity - I wonder how many people open a sliding window by placing their hand on the window pane and sliding it across when there is a proper  'handle (whatever it's called) ' to use.     

On the other hand I can imagine putting my hand on a window if I was leaning forward and looking out of the open window - in a panic.

I agree.

Amaral used it book to paint the McCann's as black as he could.

What was all this about his dog for gods sake!!    His wife asking him to come off the case as his dog was found dead!!   What he up against the mafia or something?    I even read one post where someone actually said 'I know the McCann's killed Amaral's dog what else are they capable of'      Even though he peppers it with lovely statements such as 'the blossom was out'  his book was malicious in it's content,  a book which showed how bitter he was at being taken off the case.

[sadie]

His book is full of lies.  He even changes the date on which Madeleine spoke to her parents from the 3rd to the 2nd May to make it fit better with Mrs Fenns statement.  He also forgets to tell his readers that Madeleine mentioned Sean was crying as well as herself.   This is also a lie to make it fit in with Mrs Fenns statement that she only heard one child crying.

Good observations Benice

I have never seen a statement from a cleaner saying she cleaned the windows on May 2nd, and I agree with Lace that cleaning windows would be something carried out after one family had left and before the next family arrived  as part of the usual procedure.

Exactly. 

I am lucky enough to be rather well travelled, both for business and pleasure, and staying generally at hotels of a higher calibre than Ocean Club.

The cleaners are in and out pretty sharply during ones stay and definitely do not bother with such things as window cleaning.  That happens between occupants at change over.


But I cannot believe that Amaral would have the windows cleaned, then out of the hat produce a solitary couple of prints ... Kates ...   £5%4% ... or can I ?


It is highly likely that Kate would have leaned right out to look, but what happened to all the other prints from people who also leaned out looking?  Where are they? 

As a matter of curiosity - I wonder how many people open a sliding window by placing their hand on the window pane and sliding it across when there is a proper  'handle (whatever it's called) ' to use.     

On the other hand I can imagine putting my hand on a window if I was leaning forward and looking out of the open window - in a panic.

Exactly.  Every one would do it.

What happened to the prints of the other people, who in a panic looked out too?

[misty]

Good observations Benice

Exactly. 

I am lucky enough to be rather well travelled, both for business and pleasure, and staying generally at hotels of a higher calibre than Ocean Club.

The cleaners are in and out pretty sharply during ones stay and definitely do not bother with such things as window cleaning.  That happens between occupants at change over.


But I cannot believe that Amaral would have the windows cleaned, then out of the hat produce a solitary couple of prints ... Kates ...   £5%4% ... or can I ?


It is highly likely that Kate would have leaned right out to look, but what happened to all the other prints from people who also leaned out looking?  Where are they? 


Exactly.  Every one would do it.

What happened to the prints of the other people, who in a panic looked out too?

A cloth soaked in chloroform is excellent at cleaning surfaces.

[pathfinder73]

A cloth soaked in chloroform is excellent at cleaning surfaces.

The area of the pillow of the bed from the minor disappeared was inspected with the intention to detect the presence of some smell [aroma] characteristic of volatile substances typical of chloroform or ether, this search proving negative.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

[DCI]

And why Amaral if he said he thinks it was probably said on the 2nd actually makes sense to most. The only independent witness of hearing crying was Pamela Fenn and she said it happened on the 1st.

Odd thing is, only Pamela Fenn heard this crying. Not another sole in the block heard anything. Seems like the Moyes didn't miss much, they heard nothing.

I find a few other things odd about Mrs Fenn's translated statement.

1. Mrs Fenn was in the living room, on the back of her apartment, watching News at Ten.
Madeleine's bedroom was on the front of 5a, but she manages to hear the words 'Daddy, daddy'.

2. She rang her friend Edna Glynn to tell her. And according to Murat, she rang him.

3. She listened to crying for an hour and 15 minutes, and did nothing. Instead of ringing every Tom, Dick and Harry, why not ring the Tapas bar, to ask if the parents were there.

4. She never mentioned it to her niece or her son.

5. She never told the McCann's. Even when she spoke to Gerry.

Come on, a woman of her age not doing something about this, is just unbelieveable.

If she made a statement on the 4th May, where is it?

[John]

Odd thing is, only Pamela Fenn heard this crying. Not another sole in the block heard anything. Seems like the Moyes didn't miss much, they heard nothing.

I find a few other things odd about Mrs Fenn's translated statement.

1. Mrs Fenn was in the living room, on the back of her apartment, watching News at Ten.
Madeleine's bedroom was on the front of 5a, but she manages to hear the words 'Daddy, daddy'.

2. She rang her friend Edna Glynn to tell her. And according to Murat, she rang him.

3. She listened to crying for an hour and 15 minutes, and did nothing. Instead of ringing every Tom, Dick and Harry, why not ring the Tapas bar, to ask if the parents were there.

4. She never mentioned it to her niece or her son.

5. She never told the McCann's. Even when she spoke to Gerry.

Come on, a woman of her age not doing something about this, is just unbelieveable.

If she made a statement on the 4th May, where is it?

What's your point DCI?   

She was a resident.
She lived above apartment 5a.
She knew everything that went on.
She was so disturbed by the crying on the Tue night she had to go to her friends the following evening.
She offered to phone the police but was told not to bother.
Have I missed anything?

[Brietta]

I agree that the translated statement is hard to understand, one persons back door is another's front and so on.   What we have to ask though is would a nanny leave by the patio door or the main door which led directly into the car park?

My own preference is the solid front door and the bushes she refers to are the overgrown trees immediately adjacent to apartment 5a but as for the PIR operated light, that's another mystery.

I think which door she exited from would be determined by where she intended going after finishing her shift.

[DCI]

What's your point DCI?   

She was a resident.
She lived above apartment 5a.
She knew everything that went on.
She was so disturbed by the crying on the Tue night she had to go to her friends the following evening.
She offered to phone the police but was told not to bother.
Have I missed anything?

She was
She did
She did but didn't know the McCanns were in 5A
So disturbed, she waited nearly 24 hours to go to a friend. Where does she say this?
Yes she did, the ideal time to tell Gerry about the crying. She wasn't told not to bother at all, she was told it had been done

Yes where are the statements from these friends.
IMO, Pamela's statement is probably nothing like what she gave. It was done in Portuguese, how did she know, it said what was read back to her?
She was also adamant, she said nothing of the kind when interviewed by journo.

That night she contacted a friend called Edna Glynn who also lives in Praia da Luz, after 23H00, telling her about the situation, who was not surprised at the childs crying.
Now why would someone, nowhere near the apartment, not knowing them or who was there, say something like that?

"She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night" so not at a friends, the following night, as you say.

[Alice Purjorick]

Odd thing is, only Pamela Fenn heard this crying. Not another sole in the block heard anything. Seems like the Moyes didn't miss much, they heard nothing.

I find a few other things odd about Mrs Fenn's translated statement.

1. Mrs Fenn was in the living room, on the back of her apartment, watching News at Ten.
Madeleine's bedroom was on the front of 5a, but she manages to hear the words 'Daddy, daddy'.

2. She rang her friend Edna Glynn to tell her. And according to Murat, she rang him.

3. She listened to crying for an hour and 15 minutes, and did nothing. Instead of ringing every Tom, Dick and Harry, why not ring the Tapas bar, to ask if the parents were there.

4. She never mentioned it to her niece or her son.

5. She never told the McCann's. Even when she spoke to Gerry.

Come on, a woman of her age not doing something about this, is just unbelieveable.

If she made a statement on the 4th May, where is it?

Definitely a bit fishy is that..

[G-Unit]

Definitely a bit fishy is that..

Have I read somewhere that she was a friend of Murat's mother?

[Brietta]

Have I read somewhere that she was a friend of Murat's mother?

Couldn't give a cite for that ... but would not be surprised if two British ladies living in such close proximity to each other weren't at least acquainted ... probably attended many of the same social events.

[pathfinder73]

She was
She did
She did but didn't know the McCanns were in 5A
So disturbed, she waited nearly 24 hours to go to a friend. Where does she say this?
Yes she did, the ideal time to tell Gerry about the crying. She wasn't told not to bother at all, she was told it had been done

Yes where are the statements from these friends.
IMO, Pamela's statement is probably nothing like what she gave. It was done in Portuguese, how did she know, it said what was read back to her?
She was also adamant, she said nothing of the kind when interviewed by journo.

That night she contacted a friend called Edna Glynn who also lives in Praia da Luz, after 23H00, telling her about the situation, who was not surprised at the childs crying.
Now why would someone, nowhere near the apartment, not knowing them or who was there, say something like that?

"She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night" so not at a friends, the following night, as you say.

She was probably not surprised of the crying because they were left on their own. So if that child wakes up and they can't find their mummy or daddy what do you think the child is going to do?

[DCI]

She was probably not surprised of the crying because they were left on their own. So if that child wakes up and they can't find their mummy or daddy what do you think the child is going to do?

And Edna would know this, how  £5%4%  Pamela didn't know they lived there till 3rd May.