Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website

[ferryman]

https://www.bizarrepedia.com/age-progression-reliability/

[Brietta]

Aric Austin went missing in 1981 just shy of being two months old, left. The NCMEC created an age-progression composite of what he might look like in his late teens or early 20s, center. A federal investigator recognized Austin and reunited him with his mother when he was 22.

This image of Sara Eghbal-Brin shows the girl when she went missing at age 3 in France, left. The center image shows a composite of what forensic artists believed she might look like at age 7. The photo at right shows the girl at age 8 after she was recovered.
French authorities contacted the NCMEC and said they believed the girl was somewhere in North America. In February 2002, a Royal Canadian Mounted Police officer pulled over a car and recognized the girl in back seat.

Dissemination of images to the public was critical in the recovery of Joseph Carson, who went missing in Phoenix in 1998 when he was 3 years old.

Joseph Carson went missing in Phoenix when he was 3 years old. A customer at a local auto parts store saw the age-progression composite, center, created by the NCMEC and contacted authorities. The image on the right shows Joseph after he was recovered at age 9.
A customer at a local auto parts store recognized the age-progression image that was being shown on a screen in the shop that featured missing children and contacted authorities.

In 2003, when he was 9, Joseph was reunited with his mother.

"The goal of using this technology is to keep the case alive and provide hope to the families," Allen said. "The world forgets, police run out of leads, the media spotlight fades, but with enough science and persistence we hope to stimulate the public and that they'll call us with information."

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/AheadoftheCurve/hundreds-missing-children-found-age-progression-images/story?id=8830185

[Brietta]

Could you please cite ONE specific example in world history of a case where an age-progressed photo has actually resulted in anyone being found?

That is really the kernel of that point - though of course it was the totality of the 14 points I gave that has led me to conclude that Operation Grange does not appear to be an honest search for the truth

PETITION SIGNERS >>> 1,567    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108562

OK ... that's that one sorted for you.  How else can we be of assistance to you?

[Alfred R Jones]

OK ... that's that one sorted for you.  How else can we be of assistance to you?

Good question

[mercury]

It is really easy to create multiple identities on the internet.  Which of course no-one of integrity would use for nefarious purposes.

I would reclassify "speculation   "  as informed comment.

So show us your "informed" vis a vis the petition

You dont seriously think there are less than 1500 people in the world who have "doubts" do you? Or simply are curious as to what 12m has been spent on? As it is A fairly laughable state of affairs if you do.

[blonk]

Thank you once again to all members and guests here who have so far signed the Madeleine petition on the Prime Minister's website.

This morning the number of signatures passed the 2,000 mark - and now stand at 2,010:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108562

The petition runs until 22 April this year

[Vicky]

It would be interesting to find out what the 12m has been spent on. I suspect 5* accommodation for the police. Seems to have been a nice holiday for them..especially given the UK police can do nothing about the investigation anyway..or so I believe? So why waste our taxpayers money on this?

At the same time, if there was ever going to be a resolution to this case and either a body or a live child found, I would gladly see 10x the amount being spent. I cannot see this ever happening though. And it must really hurt parents of other missing kids when they are effectively ignored.

I do not understand why some people blame the McCanns for the expense though. They are hardly going to say 'oh you have spent enough, stop searching for our daughter' are they?

[blonk]

It would be interesting to find out what the 12m has been spent on. I suspect 5* accommodation for the police...

Yes, many expensive flights, hotels and four-course meals at the taxpayer's expense. And not only for police officers, the current Director of Public Prosecutions, Alison Saunders, and another top lawyer from the Crown Prosecution Service also went out to Portugal in 2012. it's not at all clear what that was about.

Probably over £1 million was spent by the Met on elaborate preparations for the BBC Crimewatch McCann Special transmitted on 14 October 2013; that's the amount the BBC spent on it, anyway. And basically, so far as the British public was concerned, the aim was to find out the identity of a man allegedly seen by the Smith family - using two e-fits which were...

* probably drawn up in the spring of 2008,
* which were handed to the McCanns,
* which the McCanns say were regarded as irrelevant by the PJ and Leicestershire Police,
* and which were handed by the McCanns to Operation Grange in the spring or summer of 2011 - over two years before the programme.

Then there was 'The Great Search' of Praia da Luz in the summer of 2013. Top-of-the-range Alouette Mark III Poruguese military helicopters used to fly over a patch of waste ground searched by the PJ six years earlier. All of that to be paid for by the British taxpayer. Pick-axes, augers, instruments, long-range cameras, rabbit bones, earth to be chemically analysed, TV cameras, media, GNR officers guarding the site etc. etc. - a great spectacle, but did it achieve anything?

It also must be a matter of debate as to whether Operation Grange seriously wanted to find out the identity of this alleged abductor given that they...

* showed us two quite different faces of the alleged man, and
* relied on claims that the efits were drawn up by people based on memories one year earlier of someone they had seen for at most a few seconds, face partially obscured, in the dark, with 'weak' street lighting, and who all claimed that they would never be able to recognise the man if they saw him again.

I think we should get a full explanation for all of this.                 

Meanwhile the petition stands today at 2,131 signatures, another 121 in 6 days...gradually the pace of people willing to sign it grows as more and more people hear about it:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108562

[jassi]

Yes, many expensive flights, hotels and four-course meals at the taxpayer's expense. And not only for police officers, the current Director of Public Prosecutions, Alison Saunders, and another top lawyer from the Crown Prosecution Service also went out to Portugal in 2012. it's not at all clear what that was about.

Probably over £1 million was spent by the Met on elaborate preparations for the BBC Crimewatch McCann Special transmitted on 14 October 2013; that's the amount the BBC spent on it, anyway. And basically, so far as the British public was concerned, the aim was to find out the identity of a man allegedly seen by the Smith family - using two e-fits which were...

* probably drawn up in the spring of 2008,
* which were handed to the McCanns,
* which the McCanns say were regarded as irrelevant by the PJ and Leicestershire Police,
* and which were handed by the McCanns to Operation Grange in the spring or summer of 2011 - over two years before the programme.

Then there was 'The Great Search' of Praia da Luz in the summer of 2013. Top-of-the-range Alouette Mark III Poruguese military helicopters used to fly over a patch of waste ground searched by the PJ six years earlier. All of that to be paid for by the British taxpayer. Pick-axes, augers, instruments, long-range cameras, rabbit bones, earth to be chemically analysed, TV cameras, media, GNR officers guarding the site etc. etc. - a great spectacle, but did it achieve anything?

It also must be a matter of debate as to whether Operation Grange seriously wanted to find out the identity of this alleged abductor given that they...

* showed us two quite different faces of the alleged man, and
* relied on claims that the efits were drawn up by people based on memories one year earlier of someone they had seen for at most a few seconds, face partially obscured, in the dark, with 'weak' street lighting, and who all claimed that they would never be able to recognise the man if they saw him again.

I think we should get a full explanation for all of this.                 

Meanwhile the petition stands today at 2,131 signatures, another 121 in 6 days...gradually the pace of people willing to sign it grows as more and more people hear about it:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108562

I wouldn't hold your breath.
UK police forces are not in the habit of providing  details of their investigations to the public unless they think it might advance those investigations.
From observation, it would seem that they consider the general public have little to offer in this case.

[Erngath]

Yes, many expensive flights, hotels and four-course meals at the taxpayer's expense. And not only for police officers, the current Director of Public Prosecutions, Alison Saunders, and another top lawyer from the Crown Prosecution Service also went out to Portugal in 2012. it's not at all clear what that was about.

Probably over £1 million was spent by the Met on elaborate preparations for the BBC Crimewatch McCann Special transmitted on 14 October 2013; that's the amount the BBC spent on it, anyway. And basically, so far as the British public was concerned, the aim was to find out the identity of a man allegedly seen by the Smith family - using two e-fits which were...

* probably drawn up in the spring of 2008,
* which were handed to the McCanns,
* which the McCanns say were regarded as irrelevant by the PJ and Leicestershire Police,
* and which were handed by the McCanns to Operation Grange in the spring or summer of 2011 - over two years before the programme.

Then there was 'The Great Search' of Praia da Luz in the summer of 2013. Top-of-the-range Alouette Mark III Poruguese military helicopters used to fly over a patch of waste ground searched by the PJ six years earlier. All of that to be paid for by the British taxpayer. Pick-axes, augers, instruments, long-range cameras, rabbit bones, earth to be chemically analysed, TV cameras, media, GNR officers guarding the site etc. etc. - a great spectacle, but did it achieve anything?

It also must be a matter of debate as to whether Operation Grange seriously wanted to find out the identity of this alleged abductor given that they...

* showed us two quite different faces of the alleged man, and
* relied on claims that the efits were drawn up by people based on memories one year earlier of someone they had seen for at most a few seconds, face partially obscured, in the dark, with 'weak' street lighting, and who all claimed that they would never be able to recognise the man if they saw him again.

I think we should get a full explanation for all of this.                 

Meanwhile the petition stands today at 2,131 signatures, another 121 in 6 days...gradually the pace of people willing to sign it grows as more and more people hear about it:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108562

Just pointing out that probably is a synonym of perhaps, therefore not evidence.

[Carana]

I wouldn't hold your breath.
UK police forces are not in the habit of providing  details of their investigations to the public unless they think it might advance those investigations.
From observation, it would seem that they consider the general public have little to offer in this case.

Some members of the "general public" perhaps less than others...

[faithlilly]

Some members of the "general public" perhaps less than others...

Indeed Carana.

[ShiningInLuz]

Yes, many expensive flights, hotels and four-course meals at the taxpayer's expense. And not only for police officers, the current Director of Public Prosecutions, Alison Saunders, and another top lawyer from the Crown Prosecution Service also went out to Portugal in 2012. it's not at all clear what that was about.

Probably over £1 million was spent by the Met on elaborate preparations for the BBC Crimewatch McCann Special transmitted on 14 October 2013; that's the amount the BBC spent on it, anyway. And basically, so far as the British public was concerned, the aim was to find out the identity of a man allegedly seen by the Smith family - using two e-fits which were...

* probably drawn up in the spring of 2008,
* which were handed to the McCanns,
* which the McCanns say were regarded as irrelevant by the PJ and Leicestershire Police,
* and which were handed by the McCanns to Operation Grange in the spring or summer of 2011 - over two years before the programme.

Then there was 'The Great Search' of Praia da Luz in the summer of 2013. Top-of-the-range Alouette Mark III Poruguese military helicopters used to fly over a patch of waste ground searched by the PJ six years earlier. All of that to be paid for by the British taxpayer. Pick-axes, augers, instruments, long-range cameras, rabbit bones, earth to be chemically analysed, TV cameras, media, GNR officers guarding the site etc. etc. - a great spectacle, but did it achieve anything?

It also must be a matter of debate as to whether Operation Grange seriously wanted to find out the identity of this alleged abductor given that they...

* showed us two quite different faces of the alleged man, and
* relied on claims that the efits were drawn up by people based on memories one year earlier of someone they had seen for at most a few seconds, face partially obscured, in the dark, with 'weak' street lighting, and who all claimed that they would never be able to recognise the man if they saw him again.

I think we should get a full explanation for all of this.                 

Meanwhile the petition stands today at 2,131 signatures, another 121 in 6 days...gradually the pace of people willing to sign it grows as more and more people hear about it:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108562

With the recent debate on here about how HOLMES 2 works, plus the stats released at the end of last year, it's actually possible to come up with a fairly well-informed view of how the money has been spent, should one wish to conduct such an exercise.

Who paid for the helicopter?  Dunno, and the petition wouldn't find out even if it got the required amount of signatures.

For every allegation of expense, it is possible to come up with another of money being looked after.  In the June 2014 dig, the only place I know the OG team went for lunch was to the Brazilian buffet at Vale Verde, which is tasty and at €6.99 per person is far from extravagant.

[blonk]

With the recent debate on here about how HOLMES 2 works, plus the stats released at the end of last year, it's actually possible to come up with a fairly well-informed view of how the money has been spent, should one wish to conduct such an exercise.

Who paid for the helicopter?  Dunno, and the petition wouldn't find out even if it got the required amount of signatures.

For every allegation of expense, it is possible to come up with another of money being looked after.  In the June 2014 dig, the only place I know the OG team went for lunch was to the Brazilian buffet at Vale Verde, which is tasty and at €6.99 per person is far from extravagant.

Who paid for the helicopter? 

ANSWER: There is an official statement, possibly in response to a Freedom of Information request, to the effect that the bill for all Portuguese assistance would be sent to the Metropolitan Police, who would pay it, i.e. the luckless British taxpayer.  That is: top-grade military helicopters, GNR officers guarding search sites, and officers and translators to sit in on interminable rogatory interviews asking each luckless suspect/person of interest 254 pre-set questions, including this gem: "Did you kill Madeleine McCann?"      

Dunno, and the petition wouldn't find out even if it got the required amount of signatures.

ANSWER: The petition isn't designed to find out about costs - those sorts of things can be dealt with via FoI Act requests - in fact I think I feel another FoI Act request coming on right now.  Especially as the UK government has today announced it will jettison plans to introduce charges for asking them. The petition's  purpose is essentially (a) to put the Met Police on notice that there are people out there who want a very good explanation for this 5-year-long, £12 million-plus investigation and (b) generally to raise awareness about Operation Grange.

In the June 2014 dig, the only place I know the OG team went for lunch was to the Brazilian buffet at Vale Verde, which is tasty and at €6.99 per person is far from extravagant.

ANSWER: How decent of them! Where did they all stay? - in a 1-star B & B in downtown Portimao?

[Alfred R Jones]

Who paid for the helicopter? 

ANSWER: There is an official statement, possibly in response to a Freedom of Information request, to the effect that the bill for all Portuguese assistance would be sent to the Metropolitan Police, who would pay it, i.e. the luckless British taxpayer.  That is: top-grade military helicopters, GNR officers guarding search sites, and officers and translators to sit in on interminable rogatory interviews asking each luckless suspect/person of interest 254 pre-set questions, including this gem: "Did you kill Madeleine McCann?"      

Dunno, and the petition wouldn't find out even if it got the required amount of signatures.

ANSWER: The petition isn't designed to find out about costs - those sorts of things can be dealt with via FoI Act requests - in fact I think I feel another FoI Act request coming on right now.  Especially as the UK government has today announced it will jettison plans to introduce charges for asking them. The petition's  purpose is essentially (a) to put the Met Police on notice that there are people out there who want a very good explanation for this 5-year-long, £12 million-plus investigation and (b) generally to raise awareness about Operation Grange.

In the June 2014 dig, the only place I know the OG team went for lunch was to the Brazilian buffet at Vale Verde, which is tasty and at €6.99 per person is far from extravagant.

ANSWER: How decent of them! Where did they all stay? - in a 1-star B & B in downtown Portimao?

roughly how much of the hapless tax payer's money have you wasted on pointless FOI requests do you think?