Wandering Off Topic

[pegasus]

IMO it's probably just a computer error that prints "unknown" if the calling number doesn't fit its incomplete idea of correct numbers Misty.

[misty]

IMO it's probably just a computer error that prints "unknown" if the calling number doesn't fit its incomplete idea of correct numbers Misty.

OK. I was just curious because of the dates & a dial-up(?) in between 3 of the calls.

[pegasus]

OK. I was just curious because of the dates & a dial-up(?) in between 3 of the calls.

What month are you looking at Misty?
If it's before May 2007 it can't possibly be relevant.
Are you even in the relevant year?

[misty]

What month are you looking at Misty?
If it's before May 2007 it can't possibly be relevant.
Are you even in the relevant year?

Pages 16 & particularly 26 are the ones which caught my attention. (there are a few others in between)

[G-Unit]

Silvia Batista's statement about Jane Tanner's sighting has always puzzled me. She said that Jane's account puzzled her because Jane said the man she saw was walking towards the T Junction, he hadn't actually reached it. She was puzzled because Jane couldn't see round the corner from where she says she was.
So what happened? The possibilities are;

Silvia's understanding of English was inadequate so she didn't understand exactly what Jane was saying. Did she translate for the PJ Inspector as well as the GNR? We don't know. The inspector says he 'conversed' with Gerry, so did he misunderstand what Gerry said?

Jane's account of the position of the locations of the man and herself changed.

Gerry misunderstood where Jane actually was when she saw the man. [He seems to be placing her at the entrance to block 5]. If Jane was at the entrance she was probably coming out of the block after checking her children. I think Heri had some thoughts on this.

At some point she translated the statement of one of the ladies who belonged to the group and that she describes as a brunette one. This lady said to the GNR elements, and she (the witness) translated, that she had seen a man on the road who might have carried a child.
This situation surprised her because she (the witness) was convinced that when the lady saw the man, the lady was in a place from where she had no angle of vision for the place where she saw the man. She doesn't know exactly what was the position of the lady when she saw the man, but she knows that the lady said she saw the man in the street in front of the Madeleine's bedroom window, walking in the direction of the street that then leads to the Baptista supermarket.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm

States that other details that may be relevant to the investigation concerns that they were directed to a citizen, of British nationality, who made up the group of tourists together with the family, name of Jane Tanner, and who detected the presence of a suspicious movement of an individual in the immediate area above identified, in the discourse of which was seen transporting a child of an early age;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NELSON-DA-COSTA-1.htm

In conversation with Gerald McCann it was possible to establish the following:
At about 21.20, their friend Jane passed by the apartment (along the corridor of the main entrance) she saw an individual carrying a child who passed descending the road, however she did not recognise this individual, nor the child, only having noticed that the individual appeared to be aged between 30 or 40, had dark hair and light coloured trousers.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR_MARTINS.htm#p15p3862

[Robittybob1]

It is interesting that Gerry describes Tanner sighting as an asexual "individual" whereas Silvia keeps on making the point it was a "man".  You might be able to see that.  So Gerry must have spoken to Jane at this time, I read somewhere it was about 3:00 AM before Jane told Gerry about what she had seen. 
I'm sure there is evidence she had spoke to others about what she had seen and they convinced her it wasn't Madeleine because the pyjamas were different than Madeleine's.  Would that have been before or after Kate's alert?  I think this really needs sorting out.

[G-Unit]

It is interesting that Gerry describes Tanner sighting as an asexual "individual" whereas Silvia keeps on making the point it was a "man".  You might be able to see that.  So Gerry must have spoken to Jane at this time, I read somewhere it was about 3:00 AM before Jane told Gerry about what she had seen. 
I'm sure there is evidence she had spoke to others about what she had seen and they convinced her it wasn't Madeleine because the pyjamas were different than Madeleine's.  Would that have been before or after Kate's alert?  I think this really needs sorting out.

It seems there may be material scattered around which is interesting.

Kate says in her book that Jane told Fiona quite early on, just after coming out of her apartment on hearing the commotion. She then 'immediately' reported her sighting to the police. Kate says Gerry was told but he didn't tell her until the morning.

Jane came out of her apartment just after 10pm, so she didn't report anything to the police 'immediately', they hadn't yet arrived.

[Alfie]

It seems there may be material scattered around which is interesting.

Kate says in her book that Jane told Fiona quite early on, just after coming out of her apartment on hearing the commotion. She then 'immediately' reported her sighting to the police. Kate says Gerry was told but he didn't tell her until the morning.

Jane came out of her apartment just after 10pm, so she didn't report anything to the police 'immediately', they hadn't yet arrived.

Out of interest, for what reason did Jane come out of her apartment at just after 10pm?

[G-Unit]

Out of interest, for what reason did Jane come out of her apartment at just after 10pm?

The answer according to Kate is right there in my post.

[Alfie]

The answer according to Kate is right there in my post.

So the commotion happened "just after 10"? 

[Robittybob1]

Looking at a timeline Jane does return to the table "Rachael Oldfield 4/5/07 After placing their orders, at around 9.15pm, Gerry McCann went to check, only his apartment. He was held up for nearly 10 minutes because, he said, he had been chatting with Jes about tennis. Today there was a tournament which they both had to compete in. During Gerry's absence, the waiters started to bring the food. Jane was also absent to check her apartment. Gerry returned shortly after Jane.  so that explains why jane is not in ROB apartment on the 9:30 check, but ROB is also at the table too. 
Was ROB in the apartment when Jane arrives there? (I tend not  to think so.)

Rachael Oldfield 4/5/07 Between the starters and the main course, at around 9.30pm, her husband Matthew Oldfield and Russell O'Brien both went to check on the children. Kate was also planning to go and see the children, but they told her it was no trouble, that they would go and check. Kate, therefore, stayed at the restaurant. Four or five minutes later the interviewee's husband came back after having checked his apartment. He also checked the one where Madeleine was.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm

So the time Jane goes to relieve Russell is closer to the 10:00 PM rather than the 9:15 check but ROB stays up at the apartments from 9:30 till around 10:00 on his own.

[jassi]

Looking at a timeline Jane does return to the table "Rachael Oldfield 4/5/07 After placing their orders, at around 9.15pm, Gerry McCann went to check, only his apartment. He was held up for nearly 10 minutes because, he said, he had been chatting with Jes about tennis. Today there was a tournament which they both had to compete in. During Gerry's absence, the waiters started to bring the food. Jane was also absent to check her apartment. Gerry returned shortly after Jane.  so that explains why jane is not in ROB apartment on the 9:30 check, but ROB is also at the table too. 
Was ROB in the apartment when Jane arrives there? (I tend not  to think so.)http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm

So the time Jane goes to relieve Russell is closer to the 10:00 PM rather than the 9:15 check but ROB stays up at the apartments from 9:30 till around 10:00 on his own.

He was back at the table and tucking into his steak before the alarm was raised. Jane had by that time replaced him in the apartment so was not at the table.

[Robittybob1]

So the commotion happened "just after 10"?

Jane being in the apartment might have checked the time does she mention it?

When she was in the apartment, at about 22.00- 22.15 she heard Kate and Fiona shouting and saying that Madeleine had disappeared.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER.htm

According to Jane, Gerry arrives back before Jane.

in Jane's state the is a map and on it "#9 zona do caoqui"  does anyone know what that means?

[G-Unit]

I did some late editing and you might miss it so I'll repeat it sorry.

On page 99 the conversation with Fiona appears to happen outside Jane's apartment after 10:00 PM.

I seem to have this mental picture of Matt and Russell going to Russell's apartment first then Matt checks on his kid and then checks on the McCann's kids and then returns to the Tapas.  Did they both go to ROB's first, but if Jane is already there how come they don't mention that?

I always wondered how Fiona knew what Madeleine's pyjamas looked like?  How can Fiona convince Jane it wasn't Madeleine by the description of the pyjamas?  Have you worked that out?

Jane 'relieved' Russell who stayed with his child, so she wasn't there when he and Matt were there. Emma Knight went to get details just after the missing child procedure began, so around 10.30pm? It seems Kate or Gerry had given Fiona the details before Emma arrived. Jane contradicts the PJ Inspector, saying she told him about her sighting, not Gerry, at 3am. It was Saturday when she and Fiona discussed the pyjamas. There's a very confused bit when Jane talks about not being at the table when Kate told people what Madeleine was wearing.

I was told who the missing girl was and at the beginning of the procedure went to the McCann's apartment to obtain the girl's description and of the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared. When I arrived at the apartment, there was a lady on the terrace, whom I now know to be Kate McCann, accompanied by the wife of one of her friends, David Payne. Kate could not say a word, looked very upset and about to cry. It was Mrs Payne who provided me with the details that I needed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

Subsequently, she had no doubts that it could have been MBM because, through conversations with FP in which [FP] described the pyjamas that MBM had worn that night, which coincided with those she had seen.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm

So let's look at the details as per Jane;

 I think I heard some shouting, erm, so I actually went to sort of put my head out the roadside door.  And I think it was Rachael that I saw first because she had run back I think to check that Grace was obviously okay.  And then I think Rachael said, you know, she told me what had, you know she said ‘Oh Madeleine’s gone’ or, you know, something along those lines....“Erm, well I think I was in a bit of a, I mean, obviously, erm, the next thing I can remember is seeing Kate and Fiona....And Fi started running upstairs and that’s when I ran to Fi and said what I thought, you know, I said ‘I think I’ve seen somebody’....I don’t know whether she took it in properly....when they arrived Rachael I think went and got the GNR and I told the GNR chap and then when the PJ actually arrived they came and got me to go and talk to the, the PJ”....Russell was there when I spoke to the PJ, because I can remember Russell coming in with me when I spoke to the PJ, because there was Russell and Gerry was there as well in the apartment when I spoke to the PJ......That was at three o’clock in the morning after she’d disappeared....Well when the GNR people came, so the first lot of Police, the local Police came, erm, I spoke to them and I think that was through the translator, which was, I think she’s called Sylvie, she’s the Head of Housekeeping or something, she was doing the translating at that point.  So I’d spoken to the GNR Police and then when the PJ came, they came to get me to talk to them to say, to say what, what I’d seen.  And then I can remember the same GNR person saying to me later on in the night ‘Oh have you spoken to the PJ’ and I had by that stage, so”.....And where was Kate?”
Reply    “I don’t know at that point, she wasn’t, she wasn’t in the, she wasn’t there.  I don’t know whether, I think they had taken the twins out of the room by that stage, so I don’t know whether she was up in Dave and Fi’s room”.....Yes.  I think the point they’re trying to make is that you had no knowledge of what Madeleine was supposed to have been wearing when you gave that description”?
 Reply    “No I think, no because when, I wasn’t there at the table when Kate gave a you know, I think Kate gave everybody else, when she came, you know when everyone was looking for her, they had a description of what to look for but I wasn’t, I was in the room at that point so no I definitely didn’t know what she’d, and I’d never seen her in pyjamas, I’ve never seen Madeleine in pyjamas at home and or anywhere so”.....Rachael was the first person I told”.
 
4078    “Right”.
Reply    “And then Fiona and then I think when Russell and Matt or Russell and Dave, whoever it was that came back, I then, then told them”.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm
 
 
 

[jassi]

Jane 'relieved' Russell who stayed with his child, so she wasn't there when he and Matt were there. Emma Knight went to get details just after the missing child procedure began, so around 10.30pm? It seems Kate or Gerry had given Fiona the details before Emma arrived. Jane contradicts the PJ Inspector, saying she told him about her sighting, not Gerry, at 3am. It was Saturday when she and Fiona discussed the pyjamas. There's a very confused bit when Jane talks about not being at the table when Kate told people what Madeleine was wearing.

I was told who the missing girl was and at the beginning of the procedure went to the McCann's apartment to obtain the girl's description and of the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared. When I arrived at the apartment, there was a lady on the terrace, whom I now know to be Kate McCann, accompanied by the wife of one of her friends, David Payne. Kate could not say a word, looked very upset and about to cry. It was Mrs Payne who provided me with the details that I needed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

Subsequently, she had no doubts that it could have been MBM because, through conversations with FP in which [FP] described the pyjamas that MBM had worn that night, which coincided with those she had seen.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm

So let's look at the details as per Jane;

 I think I heard some shouting, erm, so I actually went to sort of put my head out the roadside door.  And I think it was Rachael that I saw first because she had run back I think to check that Grace was obviously okay.  And then I think Rachael said, you know, she told me what had, you know she said ‘Oh Madeleine’s gone’ or, you know, something along those lines....“Erm, well I think I was in a bit of a, I mean, obviously, erm, the next thing I can remember is seeing Kate and Fiona....And Fi started running upstairs and that’s when I ran to Fi and said what I thought, you know, I said ‘I think I’ve seen somebody’....I don’t know whether she took it in properly....when they arrived Rachael I think went and got the GNR and I told the GNR chap and then when the PJ actually arrived they came and got me to go and talk to the, the PJ”....Russell was there when I spoke to the PJ, because I can remember Russell coming in with me when I spoke to the PJ, because there was Russell and Gerry was there as well in the apartment when I spoke to the PJ......That was at three o’clock in the morning after she’d disappeared....Well when the GNR people came, so the first lot of Police, the local Police came, erm, I spoke to them and I think that was through the translator, which was, I think she’s called Sylvie, she’s the Head of Housekeeping or something, she was doing the translating at that point.  So I’d spoken to the GNR Police and then when the PJ came, they came to get me to talk to them to say, to say what, what I’d seen.  And then I can remember the same GNR person saying to me later on in the night ‘Oh have you spoken to the PJ’ and I had by that stage, so”.....And where was Kate?”
Reply    “I don’t know at that point, she wasn’t, she wasn’t in the, she wasn’t there.  I don’t know whether, I think they had taken the twins out of the room by that stage, so I don’t know whether she was up in Dave and Fi’s room”.....Yes.  I think the point they’re trying to make is that you had no knowledge of what Madeleine was supposed to have been wearing when you gave that description”?
 Reply    “No I think, no because when, I wasn’t there at the table when Kate gave a you know, I think Kate gave everybody else, when she came, you know when everyone was looking for her, they had a description of what to look for but I wasn’t, I was in the room at that point so no I definitely didn’t know what she’d, and I’d never seen her in pyjamas, I’ve never seen Madeleine in pyjamas at home and or anywhere so”.....Rachael was the first person I told”.
 
4078    “Right”.
Reply    “And then Fiona and then I think when Russell and Matt or Russell and Dave, whoever it was that came back, I then, then told them”.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

I find this strange. Had they run so low on topics of conversation that Kate was reduced to boring the rest of the group about what her elder daughter was wearing to bed that night?  Did she also describe in detail what her other children were wearing that night?