Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 2233321 times)

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Offline John

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1650 on: September 22, 2016, 01:12:44 PM »
Media intrusion on a reconstruction would have been an issue to consider at any point in the process, wouldn't it?

Probably but more manageable later on when more resources were available.  One has to remember that friends and family of the tapas group were inviting every media outlet they could muster to Praia da Luz.  That might have had some benefit in one way but it had a very negative impact on the PJ's ability to conduct a proper investigation.  I think in hindsight they should have kept the media out of town or at least away from the crimescene, always assuming there was one.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 01:13:19 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1651 on: September 22, 2016, 02:10:06 PM »
Probably but more manageable later on when more resources were available.  One has to remember that friends and family of the tapas group were inviting every media outlet they could muster to Praia da Luz.  That might have had some benefit in one way but it had a very negative impact on the PJ's ability to conduct a proper investigation.  I think in hindsight they should have kept the media out of town or at least away from the crimescene, always assuming there was one.

What makes you think that they had more resources available a year or so later as opposed to in the first couple of weeks?

They even had a PJ media spokesman who could have made up a statement as to why they were conducting one. Attempting to establish exactly when the child could have been taken that evening so as to narrow down potential means, escape routes, etc., appeals to potential witnesses... would have seemed quite plausible in the early days.

I do wonder if the decision not to conduct a reconstruction at the time was due to concerns over media intrusion at the scene as opposed to concern over a media investigation of what was by then a locally well-known but barely analysed previous "reconstruction" in a different case, undertaken in less than limpid conditions, that Amaral was associated with... coupled with the fact that he'd been an arguido in that case the day following Madeleine's disappearance and which the UK media hadn't noticed at the time.

Nah... Perish the thought....



Offline Benice

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1652 on: September 22, 2016, 04:12:28 PM »
Probably but more manageable later on when more resources were available.  One has to remember that friends and family of the tapas group were inviting every media outlet they could muster to Praia da Luz.  That might have had some benefit in one way but it had a very negative impact on the PJ's ability to conduct a proper investigation.  I think in hindsight they should have kept the media out of town or at least away from the crimescene, always assuming there was one.

I don't believe the intention of the tapas group/family/friends who informed the media was 'to invite them' to PdL.  IIRC it was to publicise Madeleine's disappearance in the media as the quickest way to alert the public.

I doubt if any of them had the slightest idea that 100s of media people would descend on PdL in a matter of hours.

IIRC Rebelo made it clear to those requested to attend a recon that he could not guarantee being able to prevent a similar media invasion.      Letting the date of the proposed recon be known in advance- would have guaranteed that is exactly what would have happened IMO.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1653 on: September 22, 2016, 04:58:43 PM »
I don't believe the intention of the tapas group/family/friends who informed the media was 'to invite them' to PdL.  IIRC it was to publicise Madeleine's disappearance in the media as the quickest way to alert the public.

I doubt if any of them had the slightest idea that 100s of media people would descend on PdL in a matter of hours.

IIRC Rebelo made it clear to those requested to attend a recon that he could not guarantee being able to prevent a similar media invasion.      Letting the date of the proposed recon be known in advance- would have guaranteed that is exactly what would have happened IMO.

Agreed; especially as both sides seemingly were particularly garrulous. That's me being cultured and polite. My natural inclination would have been to use the word "trappy".
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1654 on: September 22, 2016, 06:10:12 PM »
What makes you think that they had more resources available a year or so later as opposed to in the first couple of weeks?

They even had a PJ media spokesman who could have made up a statement as to why they were conducting one. Attempting to establish exactly when the child could have been taken that evening so as to narrow down potential means, escape routes, etc., appeals to potential witnesses... would have seemed quite plausible in the early days.

I do wonder if the decision not to conduct a reconstruction at the time was due to concerns over media intrusion at the scene as opposed to concern over a media investigation of what was by then a locally well-known but barely analysed previous "reconstruction" in a different case, undertaken in less than limpid conditions, that Amaral was associated with... coupled with the fact that he'd been an arguido in that case the day following Madeleine's disappearance and which the UK media hadn't noticed at the time.

Nah... Perish the thought....

Do you know when exactly the penny did drop that Amaral had been constituted an arguido and the nature of the accusation made against him?
I don't recall any mention of it in the press at all at that time.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1655 on: September 22, 2016, 06:35:13 PM »
Some interesting stuff from the libel trial witnesses. Particularly Edgar's PJ contact and Pike's connection with Missing People.

Duarte questioning Dave Edgar;

ID – Did the Polícia Judiciária (PJ) go on investigating after the case was filed?
DE says yes.
ID – Between 2008 and 2011, was much information relating to the case received by the PJ?
DE says yes, but not much information originated from Portugal. He thinks that Madeleine can be in Portugal and therefore the Portuguese information is important. But adds that the Portuguese public believed Madeleine was dead.

Guerra & Paz's lawyer's questions

GP – How did you manage to conduct an investigation without analysing all the process? Whom did you contact in Portugal?
DE says he contacted an informant who passed information to both the UK and Portuguese authorities. He doesn't want to say to whom he spoke, but says he spoke to someone from the PJ.
GP – Was there private investigators before you?
DE says yes but adds he was the first professional one.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2301.0

Alan Pike questioned by Amaral's lawyer;

SO – What part does excessive publicity play in primary trauma? Does it increase the stress and the anxiety?
AP – Yes it does.
SO – Would you agree it doesn't favour recuperation in the long term?
AP – The media are useful in the beginning.

The Judge;

MC – In which situations have you worked?
AP – Families with domestic violence, maltreatment, children taken from their families (this is a bit like grieving), families who have lost a child. He works for the UK organisation called "Missing People".
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2304.0


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Ignore and break the rules
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1656 on: September 22, 2016, 07:09:51 PM »
Do you know when exactly the penny did drop that Amaral had been constituted an arguido and the nature of the accusation made against him?
I don't recall any mention of it in the press at all at that time.

Sometime about September 2007 the fit hit the shan.
Why do you think Sr Amaral was given a sideways promotion off the case?
Hint: look at it in the cold light of day of two cases and ignore surnames.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1657 on: September 22, 2016, 11:02:48 PM »
Sometime about September 2007 the fit hit the shan.
Why do you think Sr Amaral was given a sideways promotion off the case?
Hint: look at it in the cold light of day of two cases and ignore surnames.

That is an ... erm ... interesting way of putting it.  A "sideways promotion"   8**8:/:
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1658 on: September 23, 2016, 12:31:07 AM »
That is an ... erm ... interesting way of putting it.  A "sideways promotion"   8**8:/:

In the rush to have conspiracy theories sometimes the bleedin' obvious escapes people's attention.
This being one of those times.

"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1659 on: September 25, 2016, 02:19:20 PM »
Do you know when exactly the penny did drop that Amaral had been constituted an arguido and the nature of the accusation made against him?
I don't recall any mention of it in the press at all at that time.

It was briefly mentioned in the PT press at the time but it wasn't picked up the UK media for ages. Not the sort of news that Team Amaral's fans would be rushing to translate...

And when it did start to be discussed, once he was actually charged, it was within the context of a minor administrative lapse in the pursuit of justice for a supposedly barbarous crime committed by the mother and brother.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 11:32:44 AM by John »

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1660 on: September 25, 2016, 02:21:30 PM »
In the rush to have conspiracy theories sometimes the bleedin' obvious escapes people's attention.
This being one of those times.

I happen to agree with you, Alice. Perhaps for different reasons, although perhaps not.

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1661 on: September 25, 2016, 02:23:44 PM »
Sometime about September 2007 the fit hit the shan.
Why do you think Sr Amaral was given a sideways promotion off the case?
Hint: look at it in the cold light of day of two cases and ignore surnames.

It was actually reported in the PT media on 4-5 May.

ETA: http://expresso.sapo.pt/actualidade/policia-arguido-no-processo-das-agressoes-a-leonor-cipriano=f109569
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 02:26:30 PM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1662 on: September 25, 2016, 02:28:56 PM »
And people wonder what some of the undisclosed diplomatic correspondence may have been about...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 02:31:51 PM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1663 on: September 25, 2016, 02:40:52 PM »
That is an ... erm ... interesting way of putting it.  A "sideways promotion"   8**8:/:

It's not entirely clear to me whether he ever actually went to work back in Faro, despite one journalist blogger's account of how he supposedly managed to solve an incredible amount of serious crimes. That Faro police may well have succeed in seizing a large haul of drugs seems quite possible... but was Amaral even there, let alone in charge of the operation?

Quite an amazing feat to have directed such huge stings and write his book at the same time... Yet, there's also the intriguing moan by his wife that no one wished him goodbye on his "last day"...

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1664 on: September 25, 2016, 06:26:43 PM »
In the rush to have conspiracy theories sometimes the bleedin' obvious escapes people's attention.
This being one of those times.

Absolutely.   %£&)**#

One can only stand back in amazement and admire the chutzpah which remodelled an ignominious sacking into a "sideways move promotion"

As for 'conspiracy theories' ... I think what the coordinator of Madeleine's case has to say here might be considered as verging on paranoia.  If not that, perhaps one of the worst examples of unprofessional behaviour from a senior police officer ever publicly demonstrated.



Madeleine: Paulo Rebelo substitui Gonçalo Amaral... (ACTUALIZADA)

Paulo Rebelo ocupava as funções de director nacional adjunto.

O novo responsável pelo DIC de Portimão da PJ fez carreira na Direcção Central de Investigação ao Tráfico de Estupefacientes (DCITE) e esteve à frente da Directoria de Lisboa durante a investigação de pedofilia que resultou no processo Casa Pia.

Paulo Rebelo esteve também na condução do inquérito à fuga de informação relativa ao caso Freeport, de Alcochete.

Paulo Rebelo occupied the deputy national director functions.

The new responsible for Portimão PJ DIC has made a career in the Central Directorate for Investigation to Drug Trafficking (DCITE) and headed the Directorate of Lisbon during the pedophile investigation that resulted in the Casa Pia case.

Paulo Rebelo was also in the survey conduct leakage of information about the Freeport case of Alcochete.

Gonçalo Amaral foi afastado dia 02 de Outubro das funções de coordenador do DIC da PJ de Portimão depois de declarações feitas ao Diário de Notícias em que acusava a Polícia inglesa de favorecer o casal McCann nas investigações sobre o desaparecimento da sua filha Madeleine.

Goncalo Amaral was dismissed on 02 October of the DIC's coordinator of the PJ in Portimão after statements to the Daily News in which he accused the British police of favoring the McCanns in the investigation into the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine.

No mesmo dia, o director nacional da PJ, Alípio Ribeiro, considerou "óbvias" as razões que o levaram a tomar a decisão de afastar Gonçalo Amaral de coordenador do Departamento de Investigação Criminal de Portimão da PJ e do caso Madeleine McCann.

On the same day, the national director of the PJ, Alipio Ribeiro, considered "obvious" reasons that led him to take the decision to remove Gonçalo Amaral coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Department of Portimão PJ and Madeleine McCann case.


"Fiz cessar a comissão de serviço de Gonçalo Amaral em Portimão. As razões pelas quais dei esse despacho parecem-me óbvias", disse aos jornalistas Alípio Ribeiro, numa aparente referência às polémicas declarações de Gonçalo Amaral ao Diário de Notícias desse dia.

"I cease Gonçalo Amaral service commission in Portimão. The reasons I gave that order seems to me obvious," Alipio Ribeiro told reporters in an apparent reference to controversial remarks by Gonçalo Amaral to the Daily News that day.

O coordenador da investigação do caso da menina inglesa desaparecida no Algarve acusou, em declarações publicadas pelo Diário de Notícias, a Polícia inglesa de investigar "unicamente" pistas e informações "trabalhadas" pelos pais de Madeleine McCann.

The coordinator of the investigation of the missing British girl case in the Algarve accused in statements published by the Daily News, the English police to investigate "only" clues and information "worked" by the parents of Madeleine McCann.

"A Polícia britânica tem estado unicamente a trabalhar sobre aquilo que o casal McCann pretende e lhe convém", disse Gonçalo Amaral, quando comentava a notícia publicada no dia 01 de Outubro em vários jornais ingleses dando conta de um e-mail anónimo enviado para o site oficial do príncipe Carlos que acusa uma ex-empregada do Ocean Club, empreendimento da Praia da Luz de onde desapareceu a criança de quatro anos, de ter raptado a menina por vingança.

Gonçalo Amaral disse ao DN que tal informação não "tem qualquer credibilidade para a Polícia portuguesa", estando "completamente posta de parte".

Acrescentou que os seus colegas ingleses "têm vindo a investigar dicas e informações criadas e trabalhadas pelos McCann, esquecendo-se que o casal é suspeito da morte da sua filha Madeleine".

Para o até agora responsável pelo Departamento de Investigação Criminal de Portimão da PJ, a história do rapto por vingança não passa de "mais um facto trabalhado pelos McCann".

O Ocean Club "está situado na Praia da Luz e não em Londres, o que significa que tudo o que diga respeito ao aldeamento e respectivos funcionários já foi ou está a ser investigado pela Polícia Judiciária", adiantou.

Garantiu que não será um "e-mail, ainda por cima anónimo, que é fácil saber de onde partiu, que vai distrair a linha de investigação" da PJ.

"The British police have been only working on what the McCanns want and it suits him," said Goncalo Amaral, when commenting the news published on October 01 in several English newspapers realizing an anonymous e-mail sent to the official website of prince Charles who accuses an ex-employee of the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz where the child disappeared four years, to have kidnapped the girl for revenge.

Gonçalo Amaral told DN that such information does not "have any credibility for the Portuguese police", being "completely ruled out."

He added that their English colleagues "have been investigating tips and information created and worked by the McCanns, forgetting that the couple is suspected of the death of their daughter Madeleine."

For until now responsible for the Criminal Investigation Department of Portimão PJ, the story of the kidnapping for vengeance is merely "another fact worked for McCann."

The Ocean Club "is located in Praia da Luz and not in London, which means that everything that relates to the village and its employees have been or are being investigated by the Judicial Police," he said.

He assured it will not be an "e-mail, on top of Anonymous, which is easy to know from where he started, which will distract the line of investigation" of the PJ.

Madeleine McCann desapareceu de um apartamento da Praia da Luz, no Algarve, onde passava férias com os pais e os irmãos a 03 de Maio.

Depois de a PJ ter investigado a tese de rapto, os pais da menina, Kate e Gerry McCann, foram constituídos arguidos a 07 de Setembro, tendo abandonado o país dois dias depois.

Kate e Gerry McCann são, segundo os seus porta-vozes, suspeitos de homicídio involuntário e de ocultação de cadáver.

No entanto, os McCann não deixam de clamar a sua inocência e apelam à continuação das buscas para tentar encontrar a sua filha, hoje com quatro anos.

Madeleine McCann disappeared from an apartment in Praia da Luz, in the Algarve, where on vacation with his parents and siblings to 03 May.

After the PJ have investigated the abduction theory, the girl's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, were made defendants to September 07, having left the country two days later.

Kate and Gerry McCann are, according to their spokesmen, manslaughter suspects and concealment of a corpse.

However, the McCanns do not cease to cry out his innocence and call for continuing the search to try to find his daughter, now four years.

ARA/FC

Lusa/Fim
http://noticias.sapo.pt/lusa/artigo/Zz88UgQzaoDeFyvXmhfeew.html
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....