Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 2233383 times)

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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1710 on: November 06, 2016, 12:00:47 PM »
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=SERP&br=ro&mkt=en-GB&dl=en&lp=PT_EN&a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.cmjornal.xl.pt%2f

Uncle tells how he killed Joana Cipriano showed how gave the child's remains to pigs. See the re-enactment of the crime that shocked Portugal tonight at 11:45 pm, on CMTV.

Ler mais em: http://65.55.108.4/proxy.ashx?h=I[Name removed]fvSJDpixBDZQdf1J_FOd2S2SVELRe&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cmjornal.xl.pt%2F
Twelve years later, the jury appreciated the case Joana-Portimão girl who went missing in September 2004-still with doubts. Justice gave the case for closed-with two votes of won the judges of the Supreme Court of Justice, but still without knowing where the body of the child.
The thesis that the eight-year-old girl was sold continues to make sense in the mind of some of the jurors-who voted for conviction – and also on the neighbors, as Zulmira Ophelia, the last person to see Jeanne alive. "I don't know if they killed her [his mother and uncle]. I've never been sure, I admit that I have sold. I don't know, "says one of the judges, the CM, 12 years after the crime. "I was never convinced that they had killed the girl. Very little time has passed since I saw her, until I talked to the mother. There was no way they could have hidden the body and were so relaxed, "says the neighbor. Leonor and João Cipriano has already served two-thirds of the prison sentence to which they were condemned (16 years and eight months) and can be released soon.
The trial for murder and concealment of corpse was marked by the confession of John, who agreed to reconstitute the crime, images that now the CM reveals for the first time. The uncle of the child counted as butchered the girl and how they hid the body in a freezer. Then, says gave the remains to pigs.

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Is anyone able to upload the programme for us to view, please?
Anyone else think the programme/ release of these images is in respect of an ulterior motive?

See images here.

http://www.cmjornal.pt/multimedia/fotogalerias/detalhe/tio-conta-como-matou-joana

CM reveals images uncle to reconstruct the alleged murder. Cipriano showed how has the remains of the child to the pigs.

See the reconstitution of the crime that shocked Portugal tonight, at 23.45, in CMTV.

Footage - CMTV shows reconstitution of Joana Cipriano murder. João Cipriano told how he killed his niece with the help of his sister, Leonor Cipriano, the girl's mother.

http://cmjornal.teste.online.xl.pt/multimedia/videos/detalhe/cmtv-mostra-reconstituicao-do-homicidio-de-joana?ref=videos_BarraLat
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 12:39:56 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1711 on: November 06, 2016, 09:19:42 PM »
See images here.

http://www.cmjornal.pt/multimedia/fotogalerias/detalhe/tio-conta-como-matou-joana

CM reveals images uncle to reconstruct the alleged murder. Cipriano showed how has the remains of the child to the pigs.

See the reconstitution of the crime that shocked Portugal tonight, at 23.45, in CMTV.

Footage - CMTV shows reconstitution of Joana Cipriano murder. João Cipriano told how he killed his niece with the help of his sister, Leonor Cipriano, the girl's mother.

http://cmjornal.teste.online.xl.pt/multimedia/videos/detalhe/cmtv-mostra-reconstituicao-do-homicidio-de-joana?ref=videos_BarraLat

Thanks for that, Pathfinder, plus posting the accessible links.
Are you now working on a full translation of the video for our benefit, per chance?  ?{)(**

Offline mercury

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1712 on: November 06, 2016, 10:01:28 PM »
See images here.

http://www.cmjornal.pt/multimedia/fotogalerias/detalhe/tio-conta-como-matou-joana

CM reveals images uncle to reconstruct the alleged murder. Cipriano showed how has the remains of the child to the pigs.

See the reconstitution of the crime that shocked Portugal tonight, at 23.45, in CMTV.

Footage - CMTV shows reconstitution of Joana Cipriano murder. João Cipriano told how he killed his niece with the help of his sister, Leonor Cipriano, the girl's mother.

http://cmjornal.teste.online.xl.pt/multimedia/videos/detalhe/cmtv-mostra-reconstituicao-do-homicidio-de-joana?ref=videos_BarraLat

He was obviously tortured before that reconstruction hmmmm

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1713 on: November 06, 2016, 11:16:42 PM »
Thanks for that, Pathfinder, plus posting the accessible links.
Are you now working on a full translation of the video for our benefit, per chance?  ?{)(**

I had envisaged the freezer in which it was alleged Joana's dismembered remains had been stored was a chest freezer.
That is a demonstration of the modus operandi ??
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1714 on: November 07, 2016, 12:24:13 AM »
Thanks for that, Pathfinder, plus posting the accessible links.
Are you now working on a full translation of the video for our benefit, per chance?  ?{)(**

No I'm not Misty. Amaral was right. They cut her to pieces put her in a freezer then fed to pigs. Only s..m would support them.

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1715 on: November 07, 2016, 12:36:45 AM »
No I'm not Misty. Amaral was right. They cut her to pieces put her in a freezer then fed to pigs. Only s..m would support them.


No blood or DNA found in the freezer, Pathfinder.
I'd really, really like to know what they purportedly carried on the stool which was tipped on its side.

Offline Benice

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1716 on: November 07, 2016, 07:35:03 AM »
There is no confirmation her daughter is dead and no real evidence she was murdered

And no motive either.   The court did not accept the claim of incest.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Online Lace

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1717 on: November 07, 2016, 09:48:14 AM »
I haven't really followed the  Cipriano case,   but one thing I was wondering,   the little girl was seen at the shop, so they know the time she was there and the time that she left the shop to go home.   The mother was seen searching for her daughter,   so the time is known when the mother was seen searching.   The Police were called.   So I was wondering,   when did the mother and brother have time to murder the child, cut her up and put her remains in the freezer to then feed them to the pigs?    Surely the house would have needed a lot of cleaning?   Why would the mother go off searching,  surely she would have been cleaning the house?   Was DNA taken from the freezer?

Offline Benice

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1718 on: November 07, 2016, 10:16:34 AM »
I had envisaged the freezer in which it was alleged Joana's dismembered remains had been stored was a chest freezer.
That is a demonstration of the modus operandi ??

I think a lot of people have assumed that it was a chest freezer Brie.     

I have a similar three drawer freezer to the one shown.  The idea that a 6yr old child's body could be fitted in there is beyond ridiculous.

IMO
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1719 on: November 07, 2016, 12:50:52 PM »
I haven't really followed the  Cipriano case,   but one thing I was wondering,   the little girl was seen at the shop, so they know the time she was there and the time that she left the shop to go home.   The mother was seen searching for her daughter,   so the time is known when the mother was seen searching.   The Police were called.   So I was wondering,   when did the mother and brother have time to murder the child, cut her up and put her remains in the freezer to then feed them to the pigs?    Surely the house would have needed a lot of cleaning?   Why would the mother go off searching,  surely she would have been cleaning the house?   Was DNA taken from the freezer?

Joana Cipriano disappeared in September 2004, at just 8 years old. A victim of neglect and exploitation at the hands of her mother, Joana was used to look after her two younger brothers, and was often seen in the village of Figueira running errands for her mother, Leonor Cipriano.

Joana Cipriano, was one of 6 siblings, she lived with her mother Leonor, and her 2 younger brothers. The other 3 children were given away to various family members. It was later proven to the courts that having given these children away, Leonor didn't keep any contact with them, for at least 14 years.

Leonor Cipriano, tried to give Joana away on numerous occasions, twice with the little girl's father, with whom she had had no relationship, only for him to return her. Joana was even left with a couple who were alcoholics, and had a sick child of their own.
One of the children, the fourth born, was found buckled to a chair, aged just 7 months old, whilst Leonor went out. He was later found by neighbours.

On Joana Cipriano's first day at school in 2003, her mother Leonor, left her to find her own way. Joana was found wandering, and lost by a neighbour, aged just 5 years old.

On the night Joana disappeared, her mother, had sent her daughter to the village shop, 420m away to buy groceries at 8pm.
Upon Joana's return, both Leonor Cipriano, and her brother Joao Cipriano, both beat Joana about the head, causing her mouth, temple, and nose to bleed.

Due to the severity of the beating, Joana fell and hit her head against the corner of a wall. It was this blow, that ultimately caused her death.

Both Leonor and Joao Cipriano, upon realising Joana was no longer breathing, embarked upon a plot to conceal both her death, and the body.

Joao Cipriano headed to the village, whilst Leonor cleaned the crime scene with petroleum, scouring pads, and a mop and bucket.

Traces of blood were found consistent to the attack, and subsequent concealment of the cadaver, were found in all areas described in the confessions of both killers.

Traces of blood were also found on the stem of the mop used to clean the crime scene.

The presence of ticks in the house indicated an attraction to the presence of fresh blood.

Joao Cipriano provided a confession, in front of a judge, a forensics expert, and members of the PJ, on video tape, under no duress, detailing the crime. Included in Joao Cipriano's confession, was a full description of how both he and Leonor, cut up the body of Joana into 4 parts, head, torso, and legs. The forensics expert stated that the description of the body parts that were more difficult to cut apart was anatomically accurate.

Joao Cipriano also described the implements used to cut up the body, these being a metal cutting saw, and a knife.
Joana's dismembered body was placed into 3 bags, before being placed into a freezer, where more traces of human blood were found.

Joao Cipriano stated that he didn't hurt Joana (sexually), but that he only killed her.

Joao Cipriano has various previous convictions, including one for attempted murder, whereby his victim was left blind.

Joana Cipriano's shoes were found inside the house, thus proving she had indeed returned from the shop.

Leonor Cipriano originally stated that she didn't report Joana's disappearance, due to having no credit
on her phone.

Giving testimony, António Leandro, Joana's stepfather, told the court how Leonor, had not only told him that she had been having a sexual relationship with her brother Joao, but that she also confessed to the pair murdering Joana.

Both Leonor, and Joao Cipriano were found guilty of the murder of Joana Cipriano, and the subsequent concealment of her cadaver. They were sentenced to 16 years imprisonment each.

There are so many more horrific points to this case, all of which can be read here:

http://www.dgsi.pt/jstj.nsf/954f0ce6ad9dd8b980256b5f003fa814/bfaf1cea93ab75fb8025716200388d89?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,06P363

http://laidbareblog.blogspot.com/2016/11/goncalo-amaral-coordinator-for-original.html

In April 2013, Leonor was tried and sentenced in court to seven months in prison for lying about the alleged assaults of the Judicial Police.

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caso_Joana_Cipriano
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1720 on: November 18, 2016, 08:49:41 PM »
@Shining

I think we discussed some time ago whether or not there was a CCTV camera on the Baptista supermarket.  You said there was one inside - IIRC - but you couldn't see one outside.

Just found this while browsing ...

CCTV- External Controls

In modern policing CCTV and cameras play an important role. The nearest camera to the apartment was one fixed on the outside of the mini-supermarket, situated approximately 15 metres down from the Tapas Restaurant.

This camera was pointing up towards the rear entrance/exit to Apartment 5a and would have been able to have captured anyone walking down the pavement past the front entrance of the Ocean Club and Tapas Restaurant.
Significantly the mini-supermarket camera although switched on - was not recording
http://williams-thomas.co.uk/sites/default/files/Review%20of%20Madeleiene%20McCann%20Investigation.pdf
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1721 on: November 18, 2016, 10:23:55 PM »
.....
Significantly the mini-supermarket camera although switched on - was not recording
....
Does no one ever check to see if it is recording!
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1722 on: November 18, 2016, 10:34:21 PM »
@Shining

I think we discussed some time ago whether or not there was a CCTV camera on the Baptista supermarket.  You said there was one inside - IIRC - but you couldn't see one outside.

Just found this while browsing ...

CCTV- External Controls

In modern policing CCTV and cameras play an important role. The nearest camera to the apartment was one fixed on the outside of the mini-supermarket, situated approximately 15 metres down from the Tapas Restaurant.

This camera was pointing up towards the rear entrance/exit to Apartment 5a and would have been able to have captured anyone walking down the pavement past the front entrance of the Ocean Club and Tapas Restaurant.
Significantly the mini-supermarket camera although switched on - was not recording
http://williams-thomas.co.uk/sites/default/files/Review%20of%20Madeleiene%20McCann%20Investigation.pdf

Brietta - if you can get your Google Earth to capture the image because it won't screenshot for me - there is a lovely image of the CCTV camera on the end of the building above the parking spaces at the side of the road. Unfortunately, but sensibly, it points towards the door of the supermarket & not up the road towards 5a.
I'm not sure if it was in the same position in 2007 or even 2009 when MWT was there (I am unable to access the historical images on GE either) but it seems ludicrous to have a camera pointing away from the very area it was installed to protect.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1723 on: November 18, 2016, 10:57:51 PM »
Brietta - if you can get your Google Earth to capture the image because it won't screenshot for me - there is a lovely image of the CCTV camera on the end of the building above the parking spaces at the side of the road. Unfortunately, but sensibly, it points towards the door of the supermarket & not up the road towards 5a.
I'm not sure if it was in the same position in 2007 or even 2009 when MWT was there (I am unable to access the historical images on GE either) but it seems ludicrous to have a camera pointing away from the very area it was installed to protect.

Just checked, Misty.  The camera is directed to cover the shop doorway and points away from the reception area and the side entrance to 5A.
I wonder if it would have picked up those areas anyway even if pointed in the direction MWT suggested because of the recessed location of the site ... to look up the street it would have had to be sited on the opposite wall, I think.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #1724 on: November 18, 2016, 11:00:25 PM »
Just checked, Misty.  The camera is directed to cover the shop doorway and points away from the reception area and the side entrance to 5A.
I wonder if it would have picked up those areas anyway even if pointed in the direction MWT suggested because of the recessed location of the site ... to look up the street it would have had to be sited on the opposite wall, I think.

Why would a camera be pointing up rather than down anyway?