Wandering Off Topic

[faithlilly]

Yes,good points from both sides today again, Spam!
You're scenario makes a lot of sense, but again, Lace is quite right too, if the McCanns are guilty then it was one hell of a feat to act normal that evening up until Kate raised the alarm! Dont you think?

It does indeed but if Gerry?s conversation with Wilkins was at the 9pm check ( Wilkins himself could only narrow it down to between 8.45 and 9.15pm) and it was on the 9.30pm check ( Diane Webster said the group only checked on their own children so it was unlikely Oldfied checked on Madeleine and her siblings) Gerry found Madeleine missing then it explains why Gerry was normal while speaking to Wilkins at 9pm and also the faint calls of ?Madeleine? claimed by a witness around 9.30pm.

[Wonderfulspam]

Yes,good points from both sides today again, Spam!
You're scenario makes a lot of sense, but again, Lace is quite right too, if the McCanns are guilty then it was one hell of a feat to act normal that evening up until Kate raised the alarm! Dont you think?

Is there any particular reason to believe that the McCanns are incapable of deceit?  I can't think of any. Everyone has the ability to deceive others.

[faithlilly]

Is there any particular reason to believe that the McCanns are incapable of deceit?  I can't think of any. Everyone has the ability to deceive others.

Indeed Kate admitted as much in her book. While all her attention should have been focused on finding her daughter she was focusing on optics.

[Lace]

It does indeed but if Gerry?s conversation with Wilkins was at the 9pm check ( Wilkins himself could only narrow it down to between 8.45 and 9.15pm) and it was on the 9.30pm check ( Diane Webster said the group only checked on their own children so it was unlikely Oldfied checked on Madeleine and her siblings) Gerry found Madeleine missing then it explains why Gerry was normal while speaking to Wilkins at 9pm and also the faint calls of ?Madeleine? claimed by a witness around 9.30pm.

So you are saying that Matthew Oldfield is lying in his statements?  Why?   Matthew Oldfield did a listening check outside the apartment window at about 9o'clock he says Gerry went to do his check at about 5 past nine.  Gerry went to the toilet then spoke to Jeremy.  At 9.30 Matthew went to check on the McCann children.  Whoever said they heard calls of Madeleine at 9.30 was mistaken. 

[Wonderfulspam]

Lace, can you explain why Mr McCann gave the time the alarm was raised over 10 minutes later than the rest of the group? Are you able to explain that at all? I can explain it easy enough from my side of the fence but when I try to consider it from yours I can't think of a good reason. Maybe he was enjoying his meal that much that he just lost track of the time. That's probably it.

[Lace]

Lace, can you explain why Mr McCann gave the time the alarm was raised over 10 minutes later than the rest of the group? Are you able to explain that at all? I can explain it easy enough from my side of the fence but when I try to consider it from yours I can't think of a good reason. Maybe he was enjoying his meal that much that he just lost track of the time. That's probably it.

He says about ten past ten which sounds about right as he says about three minutes past 10 he signalled to Kate it was time for her check.

[Wonderfulspam]

He says about ten past ten which sounds about right as he says about three minutes past 10 he signalled to Kate it was time for her check.

So Kate took 10 minutes to search the apartment? You think that's a reasonable amount of time for her to discover the open window & do a quick search of such a tiny apartment? He claimed he became worried about her lateness, 10 minutes later which would be 10:13. So Gerry has the alarm being raised nearly 20 minutes later than Matt. But you can't see anything suspicious about that?

[Lace]

So Kate took 10 minutes to search the apartment? You think that's a reasonable amount of time for her to discover the open window & do a quick search of such a tiny apartment? He claimed he became worried about her lateness, 10 minutes later which would be 10:13. So Gerry has the alarm being raised nearly 20 minutes later than Matt. But you can't see anything suspicious about that?

As we know Russell came back to the table at quarter to ten he said it took ten minutes for them to cook him a fresh steak he had started eating his steak when Kate left the table so she could have come back about five to ten minutes later. What difference does it make?  Gerry left the table to go to 5a he searched around the area then went back to wait for the Police to arrive.  If he was the man Smith saw how could he be there at 10 o"clock?  It's impossible.  Anyway where would he be going with Madeleine?  We know CB had a house not far away he also had a van. It makes more sense that it was CB.

[Wonderfulspam]

As we know Russell came back to the table at quarter to ten he said it took ten minutes for them to cook him a fresh steak he had started eating his steak when Kate left the table so she could have come back about five to ten minutes later. What difference does it make?  Gerry left the table to go to 5a he searched around the area then went back to wait for the Police to arrive.  If he was the man Smith saw how could he be there at 10 o"clock?  It's impossible.  Anyway where would he be going with Madeleine?  We know CB had a house not far away he also had a van. It makes more sense that it was CB.

You really are completely full of shit Lace. Mr McCann puts the time the alarm is raised 20 minutes later than Matt & you have Kate searching the apartment for 10 minutes. It's an absolutely ridiculous length of time for Kate to be searching the tiny apartment. The alarm was raised before 10pm, as per Matt's evidence, Gerry recovered Madeleine's body when he went off searching alone, then he was seen by the Smiths at 10:03. He made no attempt to contact the police until 10:40, so no, he wasn't waiting in the area for the police to arrive because they simply weren't called. So no, it's not impossible, but what is impossible to believe is how stupid you are, frankly.

[Wonderfulspam]

Even if you explain it all to Lace, come the next day she conveniently forgets that it's been pointed out a dozen times that Gerry didn't send Matt to reception to call the police, she'll make claims like 'Gerry was waiting for the police to arrive' as if they instinctively appear every time a child goes missing. Absolutely pathetic the mental gymnastics required to ignore the obvious.

[Wonderfulspam]

' Anyway where would he be going with Madeleine? '

As if I haven't already answered this question a dozen times in the last couple of weeks.

[Uncle Jr]

' Anyway where would he be going with Madeleine? '

As if I haven't already answered this question a dozen times in the last couple of weeks.

In your hypothesis, and I'm trying to rationalise this from your perspective not mine, is it possible that the Smith sighting spooked Gerry into temporarily aborting and occulting Madeleine locally in an attempt to maintain his alibi?
Do the timings work in your world view?

[Wonderfulspam]

In your hypothesis, and I'm trying to rationalise this from your perspective not mine, is it possible that the Smith sighting spooked Gerry into temporarily aborting and occulting Madeleine locally in an attempt to maintain his alibi?
Do the timings work in your world view?

Gerry wasn't in the apartment when Fiona & Matt returned to it after the initial search, that's when Fiona then sent Matt to reception. Which would have been about 5 to 10 minutes or more after the alarm was raised, because Fiona had time to have been back to her own apartment in the interim. So Gerry is unaccounted for for at least 10 mins more or less after the alarm was raised. I believe he looked at his watch immediately after passing the Smiths & yes if opportunity arose, maybe he could have taken the next available. But, he could also have continued & secreted her on the dark deserted beach & recovered her again when out searching with Kate during the night. The main clue is Gerry's timing though. With nothing to indicate, the time being 10:03? So let me get this straight, without looking at his watch while sat at the tapas, he somehow knew it was precisely 10:03??  No, he must have looked at his watch, & there's the explanation for him claiming Kate took 10 minutes to search the tiny apartment. There's a missing 10 minutes he'd rather wasn't noticed.

[Wonderfulspam]

Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the house.

No watch. Just Gerry somehow magically knew it was precisely 10:03.

[Lace]

Fiona -

 'And by the time I got back everyone else had done their loop and at that point then no-one had seen Madeleine. Erm, I remember saying to Matt at that point 'You go down to main reception and phone the Police'. Erm, and I, I don't know what Matt, erm, I don't know what Dave and Russell did at that point. I said 'I'm going to go up to the', erm, 'Kate and Gerry's apartment'. Gerry had come down at that point. They hadn't found Madeleine, erm, panic was starting really. Erm, tut, after that really I stayed with Kate for the rest of the evening, I didn't, other than going onto their sort of balcony and out the front area of their apartment, I was with Kate. Erm, and Gerry, he was to'ing and fro'ing, in and out, in and out. Erm, it was just awful'.