If Maddie may still be alive...what did the dog's alert to.

[sadie]

What height range and age range does it say on the label Sadie?

No idea, but it clearly is too small for Madeleine .... and also not the pink colour or pale pretty colour that she always seemed to wear.  It is boys stuff.

[ShiningInLuz]

No idea, but it clearly is too small for Madeleine .... and also not the pink colour or pale pretty colour that she always seemed to wear.  It is boys stuff.

Madeleine was wearing clothes for girls in the 2-3 year age range (i.e. under 4) and her pyjamas were for someone 97cm in height.

Sean was wearing clothes for boys in the 2-3 year age range (i.e. under 4) and the one item of clothing I have seen attributed to him was for boys up to 98cm in height.

So the red airplane top should have fitted Madeleine, but who cares?  It is a boy's top, and the photo of Sean wearing it is not the one I remember, so if my memory is correct, that makes two occasions with Sean wearing Sean's top, after Madeleine had disappeared.

[sadie]

Madeleine was wearing clothes for girls in the 2-3 year age range (i.e. under 4) and her pyjamas were for someone 97cm in height.

Sean was wearing clothes for boys in the 2-3 year age range (i.e. under 4) and the one item of clothing I have seen attributed to him was for boys up to 98cm in height.

So the red airplane top should have fitted Madeleine, but who cares?  It is a boy's top, and the photo of Sean wearing it is not the one I remember, so if my memory is correct, that makes two occasions with Sean wearing Sean's top, after Madeleine had disappeared.

Madeleine was clearly taller than Sean.  And also, despite having slim limbs, she had a fairly robust body.  I think she had Healey limbs and Mccann body style.

[pathfinder73]

No idea, but it clearly is too small for Madeleine .... and also not the pink colour or pale pretty colour that she always seemed to wear.  It is boys stuff.

Boys stuff like this top?

[Robittybob1]

Madeleine was wearing clothes for girls in the 2-3 year age range (i.e. under 4) and her pyjamas were for someone 97cm in height.

Sean was wearing clothes for boys in the 2-3 year age range (i.e. under 4) and the one item of clothing I have seen attributed to him was for boys up to 98cm in height.

So the red airplane top should have fitted Madeleine, but who cares?  It is a boy's top, and the photo of Sean wearing it is not the one I remember, so if my memory is correct, that makes two occasions with Sean wearing Sean's top, after Madeleine had disappeared.

So how would it get covered in cadaver odour?  With him wearing it a lot.  There must be a solution here somewhere.  Assuming the PJ didn't just take it to the local morgue and rub cadaver odour into it, what move did the McCanns make to get cadaver odour over Sean's top?

[misty]

So how would it get covered in cadaver odour?  With him wearing it a lot.  There must be a solution here somewhere.  Assuming the PJ didn't just take it to the local morgue and rub cadaver odour into it, what move did the McCanns make to get cadaver odour over Sean's top?

There are 2 big clues in the Eddie & Keela video as to how the shirt could have been contaminated.

[mercury]

But was it presented to Keela?  By which I mean did they take keela to sniff at all the clothes?

And had anyone been eating a bacon sarnie?

Anyway it was S**ns tee-shirt, not Madeleines.  Too small for Madeleine.

Yes, all the clothes in the line up were presented to keela after eddie made his alerts (posted on the cuddle cat thread too)
Bacon sarnies do not come into it, ref Mr Grime

'Eddie, the dog with an advanced training to detect mortal victims (E.V.R.D.), searches and locates human remains and body fluids, including blood, in any environment or terrain. The initial training of the dog was done with human blood and decaying piglets that were born dead. The importance of this training is that the dog learnt to identify the odour of a decaying body that is not food. This guaranties that the dog ignores the 'bacon sandwich' and the 'kebab', etc. that are always present in the environment. Besides that the dog will not alert to a meal prepared at home or on any other place. For instance, the dog will be efficient on searching a cadaver in café where the clients can be seated eating a bacon sandwich. As a complement of this training, the dog receives an additional training in the USA, in association with the FBI, in which will be used exclusively human remains' (sic) (page 2493 and 2494).

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANALYSIS-11-VOLUMES.htm

[Carana]

Yes, all the clothes in the line up were presented to keela after eddie made his alerts (posted on the cuddle cat thread too)
Bacon sarnies do not come into it, ref Mr Grime

'Eddie, the dog with an advanced training to detect mortal victims (E.V.R.D.), searches and locates human remains and body fluids, including blood, in any environment or terrain. The initial training of the dog was done with human blood and decaying piglets that were born dead. The importance of this training is that the dog learnt to identify the odour of a decaying body that is not food. This guaranties that the dog ignores the 'bacon sandwich' and the 'kebab', etc. that are always present in the environment. Besides that the dog will not alert to a meal prepared at home or on any other place. For instance, the dog will be efficient on searching a cadaver in café where the clients can be seated eating a bacon sandwich. As a complement of this training, the dog receives an additional training in the USA, in association with the FBI, in which will be used exclusively human remains' (sic) (page 2493 and 2494).

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANALYSIS-11-VOLUMES.htm

Don't think so, Merc. It seems that in the clothes inspection, unusually, Keela was wheeled in first, then Eddie.

1 - 11.20pm: Prior reconnaissance of the place by the two canine units to guarantee that the space was clear of all odours being sought. The reconnaissance was completed at 11.30pm without anything being signalled by the dogs.

2 - 11.30pm: An initial inspection by the human blood detecting dog, began with the clothing packed in the box bearing the notation: "Living room." At 11.40pm, the inspection was completed without the dog showing anything abnormal.

11.41: The canine human remains recovery dog started its inspection and "marked" various clothes. The inspection was completed at 11.52pm. The clothes were returned to their box for later use.

From 12.02am until 1.30am, (03/08/07) all the other boxes, containing clothing from the twins' bedroom, from the friends' bedroom, from the bedroom of the couple labelled 1 & 2, as well as the empty luggage, was inspected by the two dogs without conclusive results.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/INSPECTION_SITES.htm

[mercury]

Thats not the normal way around Carana Mr Grime tells us, so something went wrong in the recording of events imo or something else?

Why would the blood dog be sent in first? might be some  reason we dont know of if the timings really are correct.odd.


In any case, the point was, that keela was shown the items eddie alerted to....sadie asserted the opposite so was just replying to that

[pathfinder73]

Keela goes in first to rule out blood on clothing. So if Eddie alerts next it's not for blood. Elementary.

[Robittybob1]

Don't think so, Merc. It seems that in the clothes inspection, unusually, Keela was wheeled in first, then Eddie.

1 - 11.20pm: Prior reconnaissance of the place by the two canine units to guarantee that the space was clear of all odours being sought. The reconnaissance was completed at 11.30pm without anything being signalled by the dogs.

2 - 11.30pm: An initial inspection by the human blood detecting dog, began with the clothing packed in the box bearing the notation: "Living room." At 11.40pm, the inspection was completed without the dog showing anything abnormal.

11.41: The canine human remains recovery dog started its inspection and "marked" various clothes. The inspection was completed at 11.52pm. The clothes were returned to their box for later use.

From 12.02am until 1.30am, (03/08/07) all the other boxes, containing clothing from the twins' bedroom, from the friends' bedroom, from the bedroom of the couple labelled 1 & 2, as well as the empty luggage, was inspected by the two dogs without conclusive results.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/INSPECTION_SITES.htm

The text you quote doesn't appear in the file you link to.  Eventually found something similar:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/INSPECTION_SITES.htm

2. Between 23h30 and 23h40 items from the box labelled 'common room' were inspected by the blood dog without result.
- At 23h41 the cadaver dog began its inspection and 'marked' some clothing on the edge of the area. The inspection ended at 23h52 with the clothing having been collected for later direct examination and photographic report.

Now in the video I watched there was no filming of Keela (Blood dog) doing her check.
The clothes are laid out and Eddie immediately does his check.  Because parts of the video is missing other things could have happened to the items.  IMO the whole thing is a ruse.

[Robittybob1]

Keela goes in first to rule out blood on clothing. So if Eddie alerts next it's not for blood. Elementary.

There is no logic in that Sherlock!

[mercury]

Keela goes in first to rule out blood on clothing. So if Eddie alerts next it's not for blood. Elementary.

Put like that seems it could work the other way seeing as keela was concentrating on specific items and not a whole apartment?

What about this? Does this mean keela is sent in anyway despite an initial sweep by the cadaver dogs?
Ie gym was not a crime scene, or am I getting it all confused?
Fact is Grime can explain all this, I wonder if he will ever get the chance to

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id157.html

3rd entry on the page



When faced with a "clean" crime scene, Mr Ellis and PC Martin Grimes, Keela's other handler, will first send in Frankie, a border collie, and Eddie, another springer spaniel, to pick up any general scent. Then they wheel in the big gun.
 
"We take Keela in and she will find the minutest traces of blood," Mr Ellis said. "It's not like looking for a needle in a haystack any more. The other two dogs will find the haystack and Keela will find the needle."

[Carana]

Thats not the normal way around Carana Mr Grime tells us, so something went wrong in the recording of events imo or something else?

Why would the blood dog be sent in first? might be some  reason we dont know of if the timings really are correct.odd.


In any case, the point was, that keela was shown the items eddie alerted to....sadie asserted the opposite so was just replying to that

I don't know. Was this report wrong? Was there a reason to wheel in Keela first? There might have been, as it wouldn't be that unusual to find a speck of blood on clothes for one reason or another.

I'm still intrigued by the fact that aside from one pair of knickers, there weren't any other under garments in the line-up.

I know that you don't agree with my suspicion that Eddie could probably react to more human substances than just a dead body or dried blood, but I happen to find that a bit odd. Didn't the police find any other underwear in that entire raid inspection? Or did they, and they were set apart and the one pair of knickers was a mistake?

[Carana]

If you read further, you'll see that Grime admitted - in his rogatory statement - that Eddie would react to dried blood from a LIVING human being. This doesn't appear to have been made clear in his promo CV.


The dog EVRD also alerts to blood from a live human being or only from a cadaver'
The dog EVRD is trained using whole and disintegrated material, blood, bone tissue, teeth, etc. and decomposed cross-contaminants. The dog will recognize all or parts of a human cadaver. He is not trained for 'live' human odours; no trained dog will recognize the smell of 'fresh blood'. They find, however, and give the alert for dried blood from a live human being.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm