Interpreting the facts using a different paradigm

[John]

Someone mentioned another possible option :"someone had the key of the apartment or a copy of the key".
Yes could be very handy for a burglar to have keys copied but you need more than that to have the intention to abduct a kid  .... what do you do next, you've got to feed it and cloth it and stop it crying etc.
This guy has been mentioned as suspect doing burglaries  in the area http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_SILVA.htm http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/28/madeleine-mccann-abducted-during-botched-burglary/

The keys were very accessible by all accounts which isn't unusual by any means in a holiday complex.

Holidaymakers are as an absolute minimum expected to take care of their belongings and not leave them lying around in unlocked apartments!

[Robittybob1]

we understand that...the mccann case does not fit that scenario

Is it just because SY says so?  An option could be different stages done by unrelated people but the first stage was done by an acquaintance.

[pegasus]

Ironically, in the Crimewatch Special Mr Redwood directly discusses the the Morgan statements (30m55s) "certainly at one of those events, at 4pm .....".   And the e-fit he shows at 30m59s is by I Morgan.

The irony is that in the focussing on charity collectors he totally fails to notice or mention the potentially far more important open manhole sighting at the end of R Morgan statement.

http://youtu.be/OZ8jmdWlB8Y?t=30m43s

[jassi]

Ironically, in the Crimewatch Special Mr Redwood directly discusses the the Morgan statements (30m55s) "certainly at one of those events, at 4pm .....".   And the e-fit he shows at 30m59s is by I Morgan.

The irony is that in the focussing on charity collectors he totally fails to notice or mention the potentially far more important open manhole sighting at the end of R Morgan statement.

http://youtu.be/OZ8jmdWlB8Y?t=30m43s

I guess that if you are focused on abductors, you wouldn't notice a manhole unless you fell into it.

[Alfie]

So, to get this straight - on the nght of 3rd May 2007 there was an uncovered manhole simply left unprotected on the pavement for anyone to fall into (H & S not an issue in Portugal then?) and, after hours of searching for a missing child, someone puts the lid back on the hole but no one thinks to check if the child fell down it?  Is that what is being mooted here?

[Robittybob1]

So, to get this straight - on the nght of 3rd May 2007 there was an uncovered manhole simply left unprotected on the pavement for anyone to fall into (H & S not an issue in Portugal then?) and, after hours of searching for a missing child, someone puts the lid back on the hole but no one thinks to check if the child fell down it?  Is that what is being mooted here?

You would have to allow for that possibility.  If the drains were properly checked this mooted point would  be eliminated.

[pegasus]

You've come up with one interesting and remarkable paradigm Robbity - your early one where you suggested (excuse the paraphrasing) that a genuinely complete search of the property post 11 or even later might have been a productive action.

[Robittybob1]

You've come up with one interesting and remarkable paradigm Robbity - your early one where you suggested (excuse the paraphrasing) that a genuinely complete search of the property post 11 or even later might have been a productive action.

Prior to Emma Knight's visit at least.  Did we have an exact timing of that visit.

[Angelo222]

Speaking english she asked something like "is she asleep?" Robbity (source is a news article).
The fact that the man did not reply is an almost certain indication that he did not understand english.
It's not rocket science.

That's certainly one possibility, the other being he didn't want to be recognised by a distinctive accent if he was an English speaker.

[pegasus]

Prior to Emma Knight's visit at least.  Did we have an exact timing of that visit.

In your remarkable paradigm Robbity you were discussing a time much later than EK arrival at apartment.

[Robittybob1]

In your remarkable paradigm Robbity you were discussing a time much later than EK arrival at apartment.

But I don't need it as late as previously proposed (under a fluid new theory).  But looking at the differences between Emma and Kate's descriptions of the same event, I'm focusing on this discrepancy primarily as an opportunity.

[Brietta]

But I don't need it as late as previously proposed (under a fluid new theory).  But looking at the differences between Emma and Kate's descriptions of the same event, I'm focusing on this discrepancy primarily as an opportunity.

You are however constrained by the known facts of the case.  Any 'discrepancy' between statements detailing the same event cannot automatically be considered conflicting but merely an interpretation of fact as remembered and seen through different eyes.
It is possible to elicit more information using probing but sympathetic questioning ~ I'm not sure there is evidence to support that in the initial stages after Madeleine's disappearance the investigating team had the experience and empathy to employ such a technique. 

[Miss Taken Identity]

Abducted is an outcome, a deduction, and not a fact as such. I'm trying to think  how this thread will work.  She is missing that is a fact and being abducted is a reason for being missing.  But if the parents were involved we wouldn't used the word abducted but rather hidden.  So what other choices do we have? Wandered away, and abducted by aliens (just to keep everyone happy) .
Missing >> abducted or hidden or wandered off (and then hidden or abducted) or abducted by aliens.
Fact Madeleine is missing:
1.  abducted
2.  or hidden
3.  or wandered off (and then hidden or abducted)
4.  or abducted by aliens.
No 1 was further broken down to:
1.1.  Stranger abduction
1.2.  or Acquaintance abduction

What is the next fact?

SLeep walking into danger?
https://sleepfoundation.org/sleep-disorders-problems/abnormal-sleep-behaviors/sleepwalking

[Brietta]

SLeep walking into danger?
https://sleepfoundation.org/sleep-disorders-problems/abnormal-sleep-behaviors/sleepwalking

We know Madeleine, like most children, sometimes woke during the night and came into her parents bed.
I know of no evidence that she urinated in closets, screamed or became violent at these times.(symptoms of walking in sleep from the link you provided)

Can you detail any suggestion or evidence that Madeleine was a sleep walker?

[Miss Taken Identity]

We know Madeleine, like most children, sometimes woke during the night and came into her parents bed.
I know of no evidence that she urinated in closets, screamed or became violent at these times.(symptoms of walking in sleep from the link you provided)

Can you detail any suggestion or evidence that Madeleine was a sleep walker?

I know of no evidence that she urinated in closets, screamed or became violent at these times

The symptoms are desdcribed are offered as some, not all, and not directed at anyone specifically, but then you knew that didn't you? did you deliberatly miss the other symptoms? like driving a car, or taking part in behaviour not normally accosicated with a wakened person? many ,many symptoms. It would certainly be bad for the parents if this was the case, leaving a door unlocked for her to get out of the apartment- barefooted-leaving cuddle cat... So ofcourse you are going to protect the parents by suggesting I give evidence of Maddies Behaviour when I have none, just like I, and millions of others, have none for an abduction via a jemmied window.  bummer eh?

Can you detail any suggestion or evidence that Madeleine was a sleep walker?

No, can you detail, or suggest or show evidence this didn't happen to Maddie on this occasion?