Was the colour of the bedroom curtains as seen by Matt a clue?

[Alice Purjorick]

The physics might show there had to be two windows open to get the through draught seen on the day.
We need to a reconstruction at the apartment to see how many windows need to be open to get the curtains to whoosh.

How do you know it was a throughdraft?
Please demonstrate how physics will dictate that an orifice has to be a window.
The first reconstruction you need to do is to replicate all atmospheric conditions.
If I am reading your postulation correctly it is your belief that with one widow open "the system" remains in equilibrium and any change to that equilibrium can only be resultant from another window being opened?

[John]

The physics might show there had to be two windows open to get the through draught seen on the day.
We need to a reconstruction at the apartment to see how many windows need to be open to get the curtains to whoosh.

Not necessarily Rob, an open window and a slightly open patio door would provide the perfect circumstances for a through draught.  Could be Kate didn't close the patio door while she checked the children while Matt did.

[pathfinder73]

Kate McCann: Well it was 10 o'clock when I went to check on Madeleine and, errm... I walked into the sitting room of the apartment and I noticed that the children's bedroom door was open further than we'd left it. We always close it quite far over but just enough so some light gets in and it was quite open. And it was our friend Matt who had checked on the children at half past nine when he was checking on his daughter next door, and I thought to myself well maybe... maybe Matt's left the door open when he's checked on them. So I walked over to the bedroom door and I was about to close it to again, and as I did that, it kind of slammed shut, and I thought, 'oh, there must be a draught' and I checked the door behind me and I hadn't left that open.

And then I opened the door again, of the children's bedroom, just to leave it open a little bit and that's when I really looked in. And I... I couldn't quite make out Madeleine in her bed and I just looked and looked and, errm... it was obviously quite dark, and it must be a parental thing where you don't switch a light on in case... you're worried about waking them but then I realised she wasn't actually there and I thought, well she must have wandered through to our bedroom and maybe that would explain why door was open. So I went into... to our bedroom and she wasn't there and that was the first time really that the panic hit and I just ran back into her bedroom, and literally at that point, errm... the curtains which were closed just kind of flew open and that was when I noticed that the window was open as far as it could go and the shutters outside had been raised all the way up. And I just knew straight away that someone had, errm... taken her, so...

Aired: Friday 23 March 2012
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id411.html

2:36

[sadie]

That is the third door nobody talks about and leads to the area Eddie was interested in. See my theory for more details. One inadequate print was found.

Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

If the 'window' in Kate and Gerrys room is actually a patio door / french window, why on earth did the PJ ignore it?

[sadie]

Yes they seem to be the bifold type of window,  right down to the floor.  It seems as you approach the patio you go past these windows, the shutters could be down or up.  If they were folding internally they could be open but then they would show through the curtains.  They could be closed but the shutters up, but how come no one notices this?

In the crime scene photo the curtains aren't closed so someone has been behind the curtain by that stage.

No you don't actually go past them, Rob, although as you mount the stairs you are going towards them.  You turn right a metre or so before you get to them ... so no-one actually physically passes them

[sadie]

The physics might show there had to be two windows open to get the through draught seen on the day.
We need to a reconstruction at the apartment to see how many windows need to be open to get the curtains to whoosh.

You would have to get the exact wind conditions, force and direction, to hope to successfully run that test, Rob.   It is unlikely that it would be possible to properly replicate the relatively unknown, altho an approximation might do.

[sadie]

Why?
Why were there were two windows opened and not just the one?  Its an important question in my book.  Would a child kidnapper open two windows?
If the sliding door is unlocked why go out through a different window?  In  fact once inside even the front door becomes a possible exit point.  It seems silly to open two windows when none would be required.

The one safe high-up living room window would probably have been left open by The Mccanns, in order to cool the apartment; the other in Madeleines bedroom opened by the abductor as an escape route IMO

Or it is not impossible, it seems, that the parents bedroom patio door, if that is what it was, was not closed behind lowered shutters.

[ferryman]

Kate McCann: Well it was 10 o'clock when I went to check on Madeleine and, errm... I walked into the sitting room of the apartment and I noticed that the children's bedroom door was open further than we'd left it. We always close it quite far over but just enough so some light gets in and it was quite open. And it was our friend Matt who had checked on the children at half past nine when he was checking on his daughter next door, and I thought to myself well maybe... maybe Matt's left the door open when he's checked on them. So I walked over to the bedroom door and I was about to close it to again, and as I did that, it kind of slammed shut, and I thought, 'oh, there must be a draught' and I checked the door behind me and I hadn't left that open.

And then I opened the door again, of the children's bedroom, just to leave it open a little bit and that's when I really looked in. And I... I couldn't quite make out Madeleine in her bed and I just looked and looked and, errm... it was obviously quite dark, and it must be a parental thing where you don't switch a light on in case... you're worried about waking them but then I realised she wasn't actually there and I thought, well she must have wandered through to our bedroom and maybe that would explain why door was open. So I went into... to our bedroom and she wasn't there and that was the first time really that the panic hit and I just ran back into her bedroom, and literally at that point, errm... the curtains which were closed just kind of flew open and that was when I noticed that the window was open as far as it could go and the shutters outside had been raised all the way up. And I just knew straight away that someone had, errm... taken her, so...

Aired: Friday 23 March 2012
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id411.html

2:36

And Amie Tiery (sp)

She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

Why do you have a problem with that?

[sadie]

How do you know it was a throughdraft?
Please demonstrate how physics will dictate that an orifice has to be a window.
The first reconstruction you need to do is to replicate all atmospheric conditions.
If I am reading your postulation correctly it is your belief that with one widow open "the system" remains in equilibrium and any change to that equilibrium can only be resultant from another window being opened?

what you are saying is correct Alice BUT

and it is a big BUT ....

For the gust of wind to create such a force that it not only flared the flimsy curtains but ALSO was strong enough to slam the door closed indicates, in my opinion, a much greater difference in atmospheric pressures than was likely from differences in pressures between the inside of the flat and outside.

After all the door had been ajar for a considerable period and the atmospheric pressures in the falt would have normalized throughout.


IMHO, there had to be a thru draft to create such a force.

There was no chimney, was there?  ... so it had to be a door or window open at the opposite end of the apartment, it seems.  Maybe the side living room windows would suffice?  Dunno.
A door ior window had to be open, it seems.

[sadie]

Not necessarily Rob, an open window and a slightly open patio door would provide the perfect circumstances for a through draught.  Could be Kate didn't close the patio door while she checked the children while Matt did.

She went back to check it, didn't she John?

Opening it earlier as she came thru and then closing it,  could not have caused a later draught.

[Robittybob1]

How do you know it was a throughdraft?
Please demonstrate how physics will dictate that an orifice has to be a window.
The first reconstruction you need to do is to replicate all atmospheric conditions.
If I am reading your postulation correctly it is your belief that with one widow open "the system" remains in equilibrium and any change to that equilibrium can only be resultant from another window being opened?

Opening could be any of the small windows, or air ventilation system, or other door being open.

Every photo seems to have the windows on the road side are shut.  Ruled out.
No one has said the front door was open.  Ruled out.
Sliding patio door checked to be closed by Kate.   Ruled out.
So the two openings that we don't know about.
1. Air conditioning duct causing up-draughts.
2. The bifold door in the parents room allowing a through draught. Matt's visit to the main bedroom casts doubt on this window.

If the door in the parent's room was partially open sandwiched between the shutters and the curtains it could go missed.

[sadie]

Opening could be any of the small windows, or air ventilation system, or other door being open.

Every photo seems to have the windows on the road side are shut.  Ruled out.
No one has said the front door was open.  Ruled out.
Sliding patio door checked to be closed by Kate.   Ruled out.
So the two openings that we don't know about.
1. Air conditioning duct causing up-draughts.
2. The bifold door in the parents room allowing a through draught. Matt's visit to the main bedroom casts doubt on this window.

If the door in the parent's room was partially open sandwiched between the shutters and the curtains it could go missed.

1.  The flats look too old and not up-market enough for air conditioning, but I am happy to be proven wrong.
2.  Why would Matts visit cast doubt upon this?  the gusts only got going later.  When he visited at about 9.30 could have been the lull before the storm.

Every photo seems to have the windows on the road side are shut.  Ruled out.

Why ruled out, Rob ?  All the photos taken of 5A were after the Mccanns left and probably with no-one in residence.  The side windows almost certainly would be closed when no-one was in residence.

You cant rule these windows out based on that Rob.

[Robittybob1]

And Amie Tiery (sp)

She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

Why do you have a problem with that?

I have a problem with Amy's statement for it doesn't seem too logical.  It would be some minutes after the alarm raised and by that stage people had moved the open window (in fact could have easily closed it).
She notices the shutters partially up (by that stage anyone could have lowered the shutters).

And she seems to think that halfway through the night that Madeleine (nearly 4 years old) would have found her shoes and put them on before wandering off.   I'm not too sure if that would happen.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm

She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine's shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.

[Robittybob1]

1.  The flats look too old and not up-market enough for air conditioning, but I am happy to be proven wrong.
2.  Why would Matts visit cast doubt upon this?  the gusts only got going later.  When he visited at about 9.30 could have been the lull before the storm.

Why ruled out, Rob ?  All the photos taken of 5A were after the Mccanns left and probably with no-one in residence.  The side windows almost certainly would be closed when no-one was in residence.

You cant rule these windows out based on that Rob.

"The flats look too old and not up-market enough for air conditioning, but I am happy to be proven wrong." Possible.
"Why would Matts visit cast doubt upon this?  the gusts only got going later.  When he visited at about 9.30 could have been the lull before the storm."  Yes the doubt only coming from the description of the shutters of the main bedroom window.
"Why ruled out, Rob ?  All the photos taken of 5A were after the Mccanns left and probably with no-one in residence."  OK how about this?  If Kate knew they were open she would have considered these windows in the differential diagnoses of the slamming door.  So I think as far as she was aware they were shut.

[sadie]

"The flats look too old and not up-market enough for air conditioning, but I am happy to be proven wrong." Possible.
"Why would Matts visit cast doubt upon this?  the gusts only got going later.  When he visited at about 9.30 could have been the lull before the storm."  Yes the doubt only coming from the description of the shutters of the main bedroom window.
"Why ruled out, Rob ?  All the photos taken of 5A were after the Mccanns left and probably with no-one in residence."  OK how about this?  If Kate knew they were open she would have considered these windows in the differential diagnoses of the slamming door.  So I think as far as she was aware they were shut.

That is possible,
... but also possible is the fact that the side window could have opened more with the draught, lifting it off the latch .... then immediately the gust was over it could have closed itself.  Not likely, but not impossible.