They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?

[Alfie]

It is the dilemma for supporters, do we believe 5a was distant and remote thus making abduction more feasible or close and accessible thus reducing the blame attached to leaving the kids.

Rubbish.  No supporter has ever maintained that the apartment was distant and remote.  It was close by and part of a holiday complex.  It's why the McCanns felt it was safe to dine at a distance from it of 50 metres. 

[slartibartfast]

Rubbish.  No supporter has ever maintained that the apartment was distant and remote.  It was close by and part of a holiday complex.  It's why the McCanns felt it was safe to dine at a distance from it of 50 metres.

So making abduction less feasible...

[Alfie]

So making abduction less feasible...

Children have been abducted from houses in which their parents slept.  The Met have confirmed that it is quite feasible that Madeleine was abducted from Apartment 5a while her parents dined 50 metres away.  You're just trying to goad supporters and failing. 

[faithlilly]

Children have been abducted from houses in which their parents slept.  The Met have confirmed that it is quite feasible that Madeleine was abducted from Apartment 5a while her parents dined 50 metres away.  You're just trying to goad supporters and failing.

Why would Slartibartfast and I want to goad you? What would be possibility have to gain?

[Alfie]

Why would Slartibartfast and I want to goad you? What would be possibility have to gain?

That's a question only you can answer.

[slartibartfast]

Children have been abducted from houses in which their parents slept.  The Met have confirmed that it is quite feasible that Madeleine was abducted from Apartment 5a while her parents dined 50 metres away.  You're just trying to goad supporters and failing.

No, just trying to understand why minimising the distance is important.

[faithlilly]

That's a question only you can answer.

It was you who made the claim.

[Alfie]

No, just trying to understand why minimising the distance is important.

The distance was not far, the apartment was 50 metres away from the dining area.  It was less than a minute's walk away.   That's not minimizing anything, it's stating a fact.

[Alfie]

It was you who made the claim.

And I stand by it from what I have clearly observed, but what I can't do is read your minds or tell you why you do the things you do.

[ShiningInLuz]

The distance was not far, the apartment was 50 metres away from the dining area.  It was less than a minute's walk away.   That's not minimizing anything, it's stating a fact.

I make it 55 metres from where the meal took place to the south patio of the McCanns apartment.  That distance is only important if we are haggling about eye-ball distance.  As per the crow flies (though I have never seen a crow in my time in Portugal).

I'm happy with 'it was less than a minutes walk away'.  I make it 54 seconds, for the distance, plus another 3 or 4 seconds for the stairs.  A minute to get there, a minute to get back.

[Alfie]

I make it 55 metres from where the meal took place to the south patio of the McCanns apartment.  That distance is only important if we are haggling about eye-ball distance.  As per the crow flies (though I have never seen a crow in my time in Portugal).

I'm happy with 'it was less than a minutes walk away'.  I make it 54 seconds, for the distance, plus another 3 or 4 seconds for the stairs.  A minute to get there, a minute to get back.

I'm happy you're happy, but have you made allowances for age - the Tapas group were fit 30 somethings.  You (presumably) are not in your thirties, though you may be quite healthy.  I'd subtract a second or two from your calcs to take this into account if I were you... 

[Brietta]

To be clear, I do not support the bits I have bolded.  My best estimate of the transit time is 60 seconds and IMO the scenario is nothing like being in one's back garden.  Both of these points may be significant in increasing the likelihood of an abduction so IMO it is important to get these facts accurate.

A short time ago I came across a very short video clip which showed a holidaymaker in flip flops running the distance between the tapas entrance and the side gate of apartment five.

It took seconds.

With no disrespect to the lady making the demonstration ... she was hardly in the same league as young, fit athletic parents covering the same distance in the type of emergency they had assessed.

Unfortunately I did not bookmark the video, as I find that often a picture is worth a thousand words.

We are talking a distance of fifty metres here.  Not the far side of the moon or halfway on the road to Lagos.  How long does it take an Olympic athlete to run one hundred metres? ... I believe it is under 10 seconds.  Therefore fifty metres could be achieved in approximately 5 seconds.
The McCanns were not Olympians ... but they were runners ... so I think it would be safe to assume they would have been capable of covering the distance in about 7 or 8 seconds.

That, in my opinion is one of the reasons they felt the children were secure.

That there was a man at large in the environs of Luz who was capable of entering homes and assaulting children while the parents were on the premises is now irrefutable, although it was and probably still is being denied in some quarters ...
In my opinion the waffle looking away from that fact and concentrating on gardens, booze, swinging and whatever else enters peoples' minds is a deflection from what happened to Madeleine and the total botch of the initial investigation into it.

I see that on consideration I am going to have to amend my time estimate from 35 seconds to 10 seconds as the crow flies ... 20 to include obstacles.

[ShiningInLuz]

I'm happy you're happy, but have you made allowances for age - the Tapas group were fit 30 somethings.  You (presumably) are not in your thirties, though you may be quite healthy.  I'd subtract a second or two from your calcs to take this into account if I were you... 

I have taken the bog standard approximation of average walking speed into account.

I have no doubt runners Kate and Gerry could have jogged it in under that time.  But since both seem to have been facing backward to 5A, it would have required seeing out of the back of their heads.

Nobody talks about a speedier than normal trip up the street that night.

[ShiningInLuz]

A short time ago I came across a very short video clip which showed a holidaymaker in flip flops running the distance between the tapas entrance and the side gate of apartment five.

It took seconds.

With no disrespect to the lady making the demonstration ... she was hardly in the same league as young, fit athletic parents covering the same distance in the type of emergency they had assessed.

Unfortunately I did not bookmark the video, as I find that often a picture is worth a thousand words.

We are talking a distance of fifty metres here.  Not the far side of the moon or halfway on the road to Lagos.  How long does it take an Olympic athlete to run one hundred metres? ... I believe it is under 10 seconds.  Therefore fifty metres could be achieved in approximately 5 seconds.
The McCanns were not Olympians ... but they were runners ... so I think it would be safe to assume they would have been capable of covering the distance in about 7 or 8 seconds.

That, in my opinion is one of the reasons they felt the children were secure.

That there was a man at large in the environs of Luz who was capable of entering homes and assaulting children while the parents were on the premises is now irrefutable, although it was and probably still is being denied in some quarters ...
In my opinion the waffle looking away from that fact and concentrating on gardens, booze, swinging and whatever else enters peoples' minds is a deflection from what happened to Madeleine and the total botch of the initial investigation into it.

I see that on consideration I am going to have to amend my time estimate from 35 seconds to 10 seconds as the crow flies ... 20 to include obstacles.

Brietta, are you being serious?

Of what relevance is the time it takes for an Olympic sprinter to cover 100m?

Are you really saying the McCanns had it nailed down to 10 seconds?  Thus abduction by the open patio door is impossible?

[Alfie]

I have taken the bog standard approximation of average walking speed into account.

I have no doubt runners Kate and Gerry could have jogged it in under that time.  But since both seem to have been facing backward to 5A, it would have required seeing out of the back of their heads.

Nobody talks about a speedier than normal trip up the street that night.

What's normal speed to you may be a snail's pace to them,, you just don't know.  It could have taken them 55 seconds or it could have taken 30 seconds or 40 seconds. However many seconds it was, it wasn't many and they could get to their kids in less than a minute.  In most people's book the apartment was not far away.