They were just 50m away, just like dining in ones back garden?

[carlymichelle]

it wasn't ...their back garden though was it .....

they were in a foreign country ..........

in a strange room...

what would they have seen/heard ......a so called 50 mtr away ...sadie ....they saw nothing did they

so it was just the thirty minute check .to see if all was well...and it wasn't ...was it...

dont forget mrs fenn heard maddie crying one night  for  approx   75 minutes    :(

[John]

The Mccanns were like in their back garden. ... only a tiny bit over 50 metres away.  Many people have back gardens of 50 metres, or more, stephen.

You can't equate the situations Sadie.  Most people have a back garden which is enclosed by a fence or a hedge offering security and privacy.  What we had at the Ocean Club Garden facility was an apartment sandwiched between a public laneway and a car park, situated immediately adjacent to a public road and separated from the tapas restaurant by gardens and a pool which were open to the public. Completely different situations imo.

[Mr Gray]

You can't equate the situations Sadie.  Most people have a back garden which is enclosed by a fence or a hedge offering security and privacy.  What we had at the Ocean Club Garden facility was an apartment sandwiched between a public laneway and a car park, situated immediately adjacent to a public road and separated from the tapas restaurant by gardens and a pool which were open to the public.

You can equate
When dining in the back garden the front of the house is not visible and open to the street

[John]

You can equate
When dining in the back garden the front of the house is not visible and open to the street

Front doors are usually locked.

[sadie]

Front doors are usually locked.

The front door was locked. Not double locked, but it needed a key to open it.   

Same as most peoples front doors, pull it to and it latches in such a way that to get in from the outside one needs a key

THE FRONT DOOR WAS LOCKED

Soz to shout, but people seem rather deaf around here *&*%£

[stephen25000]

The front door was locked. Not double locked, but it needed a key to open it.   

Same as most peoples front doors, pull it to and it latches in such a way that to get in from the outside one needs a key

THE FRONT DOOR WAS LOCKED

Soz to shout, but people seem rather deaf around here *&*%£

One door was open. That was enough to endanger the children.

[Alice Purjorick]

They will be fully aware as doctors re risk assessment
Gambling is an emotive word .....but like most gamblers they were extremely unlucky
Like it or not

Gamble can be a verb or a noun. No emotive connotations whatever.

[Alice Purjorick]

Both my kids have just walked out the front door to take the 15 minute walk to school, a walk they've been doing for years and which involves crossing two busy roads.  One of their classmates was knocked down and seriously injured crossing one of those roads.  I understand the hazards and the rate of exposure is approx 10 times a week x 2 kids.  Should I be locked up for neglect?

What relevance does that have to what I posted.
You should perhaps be locked up for appalling comprehension but we have done that bit before 

[Brietta]

it wasn't ...their back garden though was it .....

they were in a foreign country ..........

in a strange room...

what would they have seen/heard ......a so called 50 mtr away ...sadie ....they saw nothing did they

so it was just the thirty minute check .to see if all was well...and it wasn't ...was it...

Praia da Luz is not a place one would expect a child kidnap.

The village may be in Portugal, just under four miles from Lagos on the Algarve's south-western coast, but it could just as easily be South-east England in the 1950s.

The retired English middle classes have migrated here to re-create an image of a Britain that no longer exists, with its narrow cobbled streets, jammed with whitewashed apartments and quaint tea shops and boutiques.

The pensioners have re-created a courteous and close community based on solid values and antiquated customs rarely observed now in the land they have left behind.

Indeed, its tourism brochures boast of it as a sleepy fishing village imbued with the "charm and character of yesteryear".

One rarely sees the olive complexion of the Portuguese, save for the cleaners and groundsmen of the genteel holiday resorts dotted across the coastal village.

There is, too, an absent generation. There are few teenagers, no groups of giggling twenty-something girls in bikinis: Praia da Luz is the preserve of the more solid, matronly figure.
There are no groups of young men in baseball caps propping up the bars.

Here, there are the elderly retired, many of whom have bought properties, and couples with young children. Families much like the McCanns.
Indeed, the gentle pace and child-friendly reputation of Praia da Luz convinced the couple that it was the ideal spot for a holiday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551438/The-burden-of-loss.html


Criminality of any type whether burglaries, drugs or home invasions which resulted in assaults of children while their parents slept in the next room were probably things which never crossed the minds of most holidaymakers to Portugal prior to 2007.

There was no publicity about the activities of criminals ... which is probably why the McCanns didn't factor dangers from home invaders into their decision to take their evening meal less than a minute away from their children.

The ambience of Luz almost certainly lulled them into the false sense of security which permitted them to think that Luz more resembled the holiday brochures than the dock area of a town in the lawless foreign country your post suggests it was.

I think the McCanns learned their lesson round about 10pm on the 3rd May 2007.  I find it quite mystifying that there are those who appear to have a mission in life never to miss the opportunity to berate them for it.

[Alfie]

What relevance does that have to what I posted.
You should perhaps be locked up for appalling comprehension but we have done that bit before 

Would you stop insulting me and my comprehension skills?  I understood your post perfectly.  We are on a forum discussing Madeleine McCann, in particular the issue of the so-called neglect perpetrated by Messrs McCann on their children when they left them alone for intervals of 30 minutes. I stated that we all take risks with your kids, and anyone who claims they don't is lying.  You burbled on about risk assessments and rates of exposure, to which I gave an example of how we allow our kids to be exposed to  specific hazards on a frequent basis.  I asked the question - does that make us guilty of neglect?  It was a perfectly reasonable question to ask as that is the underlying question being asked throughout this thread.

I sometimes wonder really who has the comprehension issues around here when I have to spell out and explain everything I write to you.  Perhaps putting you back on ignore would save me a lot of time.

[xtina]

Praia da Luz is not a place one would expect a child kidnap.

The village may be in Portugal, just under four miles from Lagos on the Algarve's south-western coast, but it could just as easily be South-east England in the 1950s.

The retired English middle classes have migrated here to re-create an image of a Britain that no longer exists, with its narrow cobbled streets, jammed with whitewashed apartments and quaint tea shops and boutiques.

The pensioners have re-created a courteous and close community based on solid values and antiquated customs rarely observed now in the land they have left behind.

Indeed, its tourism brochures boast of it as a sleepy fishing village imbued with the "charm and character of yesteryear".

One rarely sees the olive complexion of the Portuguese, save for the cleaners and groundsmen of the genteel holiday resorts dotted across the coastal village.

There is, too, an absent generation. There are few teenagers, no groups of giggling twenty-something girls in bikinis: Praia da Luz is the preserve of the more solid, matronly figure.
There are no groups of young men in baseball caps propping up the bars.

Here, there are the elderly retired, many of whom have bought properties, and couples with young children. Families much like the McCanns.
Indeed, the gentle pace and child-friendly reputation of Praia da Luz convinced the couple that it was the ideal spot for a holiday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551438/The-burden-of-loss.html


Criminality of any type whether burglaries, drugs or home invasions which resulted in assaults of children while their parents slept in the next room were probably things which never crossed the minds of most holidaymakers to Portugal prior to 2007.

There was no publicity about the activities of criminals ... which is probably why the McCanns didn't factor dangers from home invaders into their decision to take their evening meal less than a minute away from their children.

The ambience of Luz almost certainly lulled them into the false sense of security which permitted them to think that Luz more resembled the holiday brochures than the dock area of a town in the lawless foreign country your post suggests it was.

I think the McCanns learned their lesson round about 10pm on the 3rd May 2007.  I find it quite mystifying that there are those who appear to have a mission in life never to miss the opportunity to berate them for it.

they get what they deserve ........maddie didn't...she deserved to be protected....and wasn't was she

as for what you have shown that was said about the place ....maybe it was a child friendly safe place ...

because there is no proof of an abduction ....is there....

[stephen25000]

Praia da Luz is not a place one would expect a child kidnap.

The village may be in Portugal, just under four miles from Lagos on the Algarve's south-western coast, but it could just as easily be South-east England in the 1950s.

The retired English middle classes have migrated here to re-create an image of a Britain that no longer exists, with its narrow cobbled streets, jammed with whitewashed apartments and quaint tea shops and boutiques.

The pensioners have re-created a courteous and close community based on solid values and antiquated customs rarely observed now in the land they have left behind.

Indeed, its tourism brochures boast of it as a sleepy fishing village imbued with the "charm and character of yesteryear".

One rarely sees the olive complexion of the Portuguese, save for the cleaners and groundsmen of the genteel holiday resorts dotted across the coastal village.

There is, too, an absent generation. There are few teenagers, no groups of giggling twenty-something girls in bikinis: Praia da Luz is the preserve of the more solid, matronly figure.
There are no groups of young men in baseball caps propping up the bars.

Here, there are the elderly retired, many of whom have bought properties, and couples with young children. Families much like the McCanns.
Indeed, the gentle pace and child-friendly reputation of Praia da Luz convinced the couple that it was the ideal spot for a holiday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551438/The-burden-of-loss.html


Criminality of any type whether burglaries, drugs or home invasions which resulted in assaults of children while their parents slept in the next room were probably things which never crossed the minds of most holidaymakers to Portugal prior to 2007.

There was no publicity about the activities of criminals ... which is probably why the McCanns didn't factor dangers from home invaders into their decision to take their evening meal less than a minute away from their children.

The ambience of Luz almost certainly lulled them into the false sense of security which permitted them to think that Luz more resembled the holiday brochures than the dock area of a town in the lawless foreign country your post suggests it was.

I think the McCanns learned their lesson round about 10pm on the 3rd May 2007.  I find it quite mystifying that there are those who appear to have a mission in life never to miss the opportunity to berate them for it.

'There was no publicity about the activities of criminals ... which is probably why the McCanns didn't factor dangers from home invaders into their decision to take their evening meal less than a minute away from their children.'

That statement fails at the first hurdle, as they locked the apartment during the day.

Ipso facto, they anticipated they could get burgled.

[Alice Purjorick]

Would you stop insulting me and my comprehension skills?  I understood your post perfectly.  We are on a forum discussing Madeleine McCann, in particular the issue of the so-called neglect perpetrated by Messrs McCann on their children when they left them alone for intervals of 30 minutes. I stated that we all take risks with your kids, and anyone who claims they don't is lying.  You burbled on about risk assessments and rates of exposure, to which I gave an example of how we allow our kids to be exposed to  specific hazards on a frequent basis.  I asked the question - does that make us guilty of neglect?  It was a perfectly reasonable question to ask as that is the underlying question being asked throughout this thread.

I sometimes wonder really who has the comprehension issues around here when I have to spell out and explain everything I write to you.  Perhaps putting you back on ignore would save me a lot of time.

As I see it the underlying questions are: "are you prepared to pay the price your actions may demand" and "what are you going to do to mitigate the possibilty of paying that price should it be unacceptable to you".
Simple enough.

[Mr Gray]

As I see it the underlying questions are: "are you prepared to pay the price your actions may demand" and "what are you going to do to mitigate the possibilty of paying that price should it be unacceptable to you".
Simple enough.

It wasn't the actions of the McCanns that have caused this situation but the actions of the criminal who abducted Maddie
Don't blame the victim of the crime
Blame the criminal
Simple

[jassi]

It wasn't the actions of the McCanns that have caused this situation but the actions of the criminal who abducted Maddie
Don't blame the victim of the crime
Blame the criminal
Simple

I don't think anyone blame Madeleine.