Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[Benice]

So you did say Kate may have thought the twins may have been gassed. Glad we got that sorted out.

Now can you tell me why not getting help if she thought they had been gassed is any less negligent than not getting help if they had been sedated by any other method?

She might have thought gas had been used, she might have thought a pad had been used, she might have thought any number of things.   But there again she might just as easily not have thought any of those things.   We simply don't know.

The idea that because a poster on the net suggests that it's a possibility that she MAY (not that she definitely DID,) but that she MAY have thought gas might have been used is then used to try to make a case for negligence against Kate McCann herself  is really scraping through the bottom of the barrel imo.

There is no evidence that Kate believed gas had been used.   Unless you can show evidence that she did your question is totally irrelevant and just another attempt to bash the McCanns yet again - this time via a single remark made by another forum poster i.e. Alfie -  who has already explained his reasons for making it.

AIMHO

[Alfie]

So why in Madeleine, her police interviews and the numerous media interviews she has given since the disappearance has Kate never claimed she thought the twins may have been gassed?

I don't think she mentioned any specific means of sedation did she?  Look, it was simply conjecture on my part, as I made explicitly clear in my post.  You don't have to accept it, I did say I could be completely wrong and if that's the conclusion you want to draw then that's absolutely fine by me, but please don't accuse me of "volte face" because I did not.  I hope that's now understood and we can move on from this tedious discussion.

[Alfie]

She might have thought gas had been used, she might have thought a pad had been used, she might have thought any number of things.   But there again she might just as easily not have thought any of those things.   We simply don't know.

The idea that because a poster on the net suggests that it's a possibility that she MAY (not that she definitely DID,) but that she MAY have thought gas might have been used is then used to try to make a case for negligence against Kate McCann herself  is really scraping through the bottom of the barrel imo.

There is no evidence that Kate believed gas had been used.   Unless you can show evidence that she did your question is totally irrelevant and just another attempt to bash the McCanns yet again - this time via a single remark made by another forum poster i.e. Alfie -  who has already explained his reasons for making it.

AIMHO

Well exactly.  I believe this is a well worn tactic, and I even alluded to such tactics in my "offending" post (ie: don't ascribe my thoughts to Kate McCann and don't all jump down my throat at the mention of gas - I knew that was too much to hope for!)

[faithlilly]

She might have thought gas had been used, she might have thought a pad had been used, she might have thought any number of things.   But there again she might just as easily not have thought any of those things.   We simply don't know.

The idea that because a poster on the net suggests that it's a possibility that she MAY (not that she definitely DID,) but that she MAY have thought gas might have been used is then used to try to make a case for negligence against Kate McCann herself  is really scraping through the bottom of the barrel imo.

There is no evidence that Kate believed gas had been used.   Unless you can show evidence that she did your question is totally irrelevant and just another attempt to bash the McCanns yet again - this time via a single remark made by another forum poster i.e. Alfie -  who has already explained his reasons for making it.

AIMHO

And with the greatest respect your fellow poster's conjecture was simply another attempt to explain away the fact that the McCanns, when they had concerns that their children had been sedated by an unknown, potentially lethal drug, did nothing.

[Alfie]

And with the greatest respect your fellow poster's conjecture was simply another attempt to explain away the fact that the McCanns, when they had concerns that their children had been sedated by an unknown, potentially lethal drug, did nothing.

Please stop lying.  I have already stated several times that my post was simply to volunteer a reason for why Kate McCann may have thought the children were sedated NOT to explain why she "did nothing" - why do you keep doing this?

[Alfie]

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QuoteQuote from: Alfie on January 03, 2017, 05:26:49 PM

You seem to be under the impression that I wrote this as a reason why Kate did not take the twins to the hospital, am I correct in thinking that is your belief?



Reply from : Faithlilly Reply #566 on: January 03, 2017, 06:13:36 PM

No you said you believe Kate may have believed the twins had been gassed. I asked why not seeking medical advice if they had been gassed is any more acceptable than if they had been sedated in any other way?

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It seems the 'volte facing' around here is coming from you Faithlilly.

[faithlilly]

»


QuoteQuote from: Alfie on January 03, 2017, 05:26:49 PM

You seem to be under the impression that I wrote this as a reason why Kate did not take the twins to the hospital, am I correct in thinking that is your belief?


Give it up Alfie, do.


Reply from : Faithlilly Reply #566 on: January 03, 2017, 06:13:36 PM

No you said you believe Kate may have believed the twins had been gassed. I asked why not seeking medical advice if they had been gassed is any more acceptable than if they had been sedated in any other way?

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It seems the 'volte facing' around here is coming from you Faithlilly.

[Alice Purjorick]

As I have never stated it is any more or any less negligent I fail to understand why you keep on and on asking me this question.  My post about the gas was nothing to do with Kate's alleged negligence in any way shape or form (we had already done that aspect of the discussion to death),  but an attempt to move the discussion on to why she might have been under the impression that the children had been sedated in the first place, ie: because of media reports of alleged gassings and robberies on the continent.   If you can't understand this and cannot see that this is not me having a complete 180 degree change of opinion then really there is no hope for us being able to communicate like adults.

I do not think you are Kate McCann.
We know these stories were floating about by 2015 but is there evidence to prove they had currency in 2007.
Considering the stories were booted into touch by the Royal College of Anaesthetists and Dr K McCann was once a practicing anaesthetist the "excuse" sounds a bit thin.

[faithlilly]

I do not think you are Kate McCann.
We know these stories were floating about by 2015 but is there evidence to prove they had currency in 2007.
Considering the stories were booted into touch by the Royal College of Anaesthetists and Dr K McCann was once a practicing anaesthetist the "excuse" sounds a bit thin.

Thinner than a catwalk model !

[Benice]

And with the greatest respect your fellow poster's conjecture was simply another attempt to explain away the fact that the McCanns, when they had concerns that their children had been sedated by an unknown, potentially lethal drug, did nothing.

In your opinion.    IMO the fact they brought it up with the FLO's on the 5th was because  the concerns they mentioned on the 3rd had not resulted in any feedback from the PJ.   I also believe the language barrier really worked against them in those first few hours.

I don't believe Kate thought they had been sedated with a potentially lethal drug - neither did any of the other doctors - otherwise they would have taken more drastic action.    The fact that the twins were sleeping soundly was normal for them anyway - IOW they were not light sleepers -  which could explain why they didn't wake up.  That would influence the level of her concern IMO.

Add to that the terrible state of abject terror and anxiety both parents were in - worsening by the minute, then any idea that they should have been thinking calmly and logically - believing as they did that their daughter had just been abducted, is so unrealistic it's off the scale.    They would be consumed with fear for their missing daughter.  No parent could think straight in those horrendous circumstances.  Their heads would be all over the place.

On the other hand there were policemen there who did find it strange that the twins didn't wake up.   Those officers were not in a state of shock and anxiety and IMO should have reported their observations to their superiors asap -  who may have suggested to the parents that immediate testing was appropriate.

The fact that there were no formal instructions or guidance available to the police on what to do in these circumstances was unfortunate from all points of view IMO.    I sincerely hope that state of affairs has since been addressed.

AIMHO

[Alfie]

I do not think you are Kate McCann.
We know these stories were floating about by 2015 but is there evidence to prove they had currency in 2007.
Considering the stories were booted into touch by the Royal College of Anaesthetists and Dr K McCann was once a practicing anaesthetist the "excuse" sounds a bit thin.

Please clarify who you think has made an "excuse" and an excuse for what exactly?  Yes, these stories have been doing the rounds for years, but you may well be right and that a panicked anaesthetist, on seeing her kids in an apparently unusually deep sleep would immediately discount the possibility of a gas attack.  I apologise for raising the idea in the first place, it's so f..king stupid someone should just shoot me and put me out of my misery.

[Alice Purjorick]

Please clarify who you think has made an "excuse" and an excuse for what exactly?  Yes, these stories have been doing the rounds for years, but you may well be right and that a panicked anaesthetist, on seeing her kids in an apparently unusually deep sleep would immediately discount the possibility of a gas attack.  I apologise for raising the idea in the first place, it's so f....ing stupid someone should just shoot me and put me out of my misery.

I didn't start the deabte nor am I the one who is becoming irritated.
I see not in the forum rules where a debate has to carried out in accordance with your instructions or wishes.

[Alfie]

I didn't start the deabte nor am I the one who is becoming irritated.
I see not in the forum rules where a debate has to carried out in accordance with your instructions or wishes.

I think one of the rules of any debate is not to falsely and repeatedly accuse your opponent of something they haven't done, in this case"volte face". It would be nice to think that one's opponent in any debate would have the good grace to admit when they were wrong and to apologise but I realise this is out of the question with the likes of you and Faithlilly, so time to move on I guess.

[G-Unit]

She might have thought gas had been used, she might have thought a pad had been used, she might have thought any number of things.   But there again she might just as easily not have thought any of those things.   We simply don't know.

The idea that because a poster on the net suggests that it's a possibility that she MAY (not that she definitely DID,) but that she MAY have thought gas might have been used is then used to try to make a case for negligence against Kate McCann herself  is really scraping through the bottom of the barrel imo.

There is no evidence that Kate believed gas had been used.   Unless you can show evidence that she did your question is totally irrelevant and just another attempt to bash the McCanns yet again - this time via a single remark made by another forum poster i.e. Alfie -  who has already explained his reasons for making it.

AIMHO

Kate McCann said (long after the event) that she feared her children may have been sedated on 3rd May. She said she kept checking them for signs of life. There's a very simple method of checking if someone is sedated; you wake them up and check their responsiveness. Pointing out that a doctor neglected to carry out that simple test isn't 'McCann bashing'. Someone with first aid training would have known to do that. The measures she took were completely inadequate. Some people have made excuses for her, but it was actually inexcusable if she was really checking for signs of life, because she is suggesting that there may have been no signs of life. That's an urgent and serious matter needing urgent and thorough investigations.

[stephen25000]

Bottom line.

There is nothing to show Madeleine was kidnapped/abducted.

A total fallacy.

The McCann's  weren't in the apartment when Madeleine disappeared.

So why did they claim abduction when they didn't know what had happened ?

Easy to answer.

Any other scenario means, THEY TAKE THE BLAME.