Was stranger abduction unlikely due to the checking regime?

[slartibartfast]

1,What behaviour? you seem to have prejudged a behavioural characteristic to suit your argument. On what basis have you done that?
2 It being beyond your ken renders it neither impossible nor improbable.

The personal incredulity fallacy.

[Alfie]

Criminal psychologist read books,people watch, not all of them spot the behaviour of such people. Jamie Bulger was tortured and murdered by first time killers, also many first time killers only get spotted,identified of certain behaviour after the event. ie after they are caught! So your theory doesn't quite hold much water . Sorry.

Were the two children who killed Jamie Bulger completely normal kids who had never displayed any worrying characteristics or traits or [ censored word]ocial tendencies in their lives before the murder?

[Brietta]

You have therefore ruled out the possibility this could have been the first or only incident?
On what basis have you done that?

None of the family liaison officers appointed to the case noticed anything which might indicate any such behaviour.

Prior to that neither friends or family had anything but positive comment to make about the couple and their relationship with their family.

[Brietta]

Criminal psychologist read books,people watch, not all of them spot the behaviour of such people. Jamie Bulger was tortured and murdered by first time killers, also many first time killers only get spotted,identified of certain behaviour after the event. ie after they are caught! So your theory doesn't quite hold much water . Sorry.

You are exhibiting a total ignorance of the background to James Bulger's murder.

[G-Unit]

Criminal psychologists look for any indications to explain, confirm or dismiss apparent behaviour. And given what is being asked here, it is such a monumental flip in character that something would have been evident in their past to indicate that either or both were capable of such an essentially disturbing course of action. Even if it manifested only towards the weak, for example children, then family, friends, anyone who had an insight into their private lives would throw any sort of loyalty out of the window to protect the children.

These people are not monsters, and to entertain the theory they were involved in any capacity would mean such a disregard for Madeleine's life that to look at them just doesn't justify the suspicion.

I don't know why you think the parents would have had to be monsters to be involved in some way. You also seem to think that you can judge a persons character just by looking at them. I don't think it works like that.

[Alice Purjorick]

None of the family liaison officers appointed to the case noticed anything which might indicate any such behaviour.

Prior to that neither friends or family had anything but positive comment to make about the couple and their relationship with their family.

1 FLOs work for the police. Why would they make public comment?
2 That could be explained by bias and /or being unable to recognise signs even if there were any.

[Alfie]

I don't know why you think the parents would have had to be monsters to be involved in some way. You also seem to think that you can judge a persons character just by looking at them. I don't think it works like that.

Of course they would have to be monsters.  We are talking about (HYPOTHETICALY SPEAKING) one parent discovering the corpse of their eldest child and rather than doing what any normal person would do and alert the necessary authorities, call the police, ambulance etc, instead went and hatched a plan with the other parent (a monster for agreeing to this plan in the first place, when they should have been ripped to pieces with grief), a plan which involved finding a hiding place or burial spot for the corpse, thus denying the child a proper burial, and the child's extended family the opportunity to grieve properly, and ALL to save their own skins.  Not only that, but these monsters then went on to set up a million pound fund to swindle pocket money from ickle children, and pensions from impoverished OAPS.  They then spend the next 10 years carrying off this crime without the merest hint of a crack in their armour, ALL TO SAVE THEIR OWN SKINS.
They would HAVE to be monsters, no question at all about it.  The question is, do you believe the McCanns are these monsters?

[The Singularity]

Criminal psychologist read books,people watch, not all of them spot the behaviour of such people. Jamie Bulger was tortured and murdered by first time killers...

Venables and Thompson had already shown a alarming disregard for life. Yes unfortunately their first time at abduction resulted in the torture and death of Jamie. However, warning signs were there, and remain so which is why it is a point of contention in giving them new identities because their character traits are likely to reveal their true identities.

Also a big difference is Jamie was a stranger to them, with Madeleine's parents you have to factor in their parental status to Madeleine and the monumental shift in their characters required to dispose of their first born in such a brutal way.

[misty]

Of course they would have to be monsters.  We are talking about (HYPOTHETICALY SPEAKING) one parent discovering the corpse of their eldest child and rather than doing what any normal person would do and alert the necessary authorities, call the police, ambulance etc, instead went and hatched a plan with the other parent (a monster for agreeing to this plan in the first place, when they should have been ripped to pieces with grief), a plan which involved finding a hiding place or burial spot for the corpse, thus denying the child a proper burial, and the child's extended family the opportunity to grieve properly, and ALL to save their own skins.  Not only that, but these monsters then went on to set up a million pound fund to swindle pocket money from ickle children, and pensions from impoverished OAPS.  They then spend the next 10 years carrying off this crime without the merest hint of a crack in their armour, ALL TO SAVE THEIR OWN SKINS.
They would HAVE to be monsters, no question at all about it.  The question is, do you believe the McCanns are these monsters?

Alfie - I can't read the post for looking at the avatar.

[pathfinder73]

Partly because there is a precedent for such behaviour, to be able to become so lacking in empathy and disregard for life is a process that generally has historic indications. Granted there are going to be exceptions however I don't see either Mr or Mrs McCann falling into that particular small subset. 

Secondly, generally on the whole a parent to deny their child life, or in this proposed case, to willfully dispose of them, for me, that takes a mind set that is so dark I can't relate to. I would suggest that it is so dark that someone would not simply start with such a twisted act as it would need a severe counter to our inherent and need to protect, especially children.

You go into an investigation with an open mind so all options are on the table. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in la la land. You don't rule anything out.

But tell me more about the past behaviour of SHY hot lips? Or I'm not here to enjoy myself?

"In the early 1970s, Ted Bundy worked for a suicide hotline in Seattle. His co-workers, including author Ann Rule, remember him as a skilled volunteer who helped ease troubled callers and saved lives. Talk about irony."

[The Singularity]

I don't know why you think the parents would have had to be monsters to be involved in some way. You also seem to think that you can judge a persons character just by looking at them. I don't think it works like that.

No I don't believe for one minute you can judge a person simply by looking at them. And no, it certainly does work like that. That is why people undertake evaluations, why victim support is sometimes necessary.

[Alfie]

Alfie - I can't read the post for looking at the avatar.

My last avatar was abducted - I wasn't allowed to give the thumbs down to those who hate, so this is my response to that decision. 

[G-Unit]

Of course they would have to be monsters.  We are talking about (HYPOTHETICALY SPEAKING) one parent discovering the corpse of their eldest child and rather than doing what any normal person would do and alert the necessary authorities, call the police, ambulance etc, instead went and hatched a plan with the other parent (a monster for agreeing to this plan in the first place, when they should have been ripped to pieces with grief), a plan which involved finding a hiding place or burial spot for the corpse, thus denying the child a proper burial, and the child's extended family the opportunity to grieve properly, and ALL to save their own skins.  Not only that, but these monsters then went on to set up a million pound fund to swindle pocket money from ickle children, and pensions from impoverished OAPS.  They then spend the next 10 years carrying off this crime without the merest hint of a crack in their armour, ALL TO SAVE THEIR OWN SKINS.
They would HAVE to be monsters, no question at all about it.  The question is, do you believe the McCanns are these monsters?

I think that some human beings. faced with a situation they can't change, are capable of weighing up their options and making choices. No-one knows, until they face such a situation, how they would react. What seems like a monstrous choice may, to the one(s) making the choice, seem like the only or the best choice possible.

[Alfie]

I think that some human beings. faced with a situation they can't change, are capable of weighing up their options and making choices. No-one knows, until they face such a situation, how they would react. What seems like a monstrous choice may, to the one(s) making the choice, seem like the only or the best choice possible.

I'm sorry dress it up however you like, the actions I have described are those of individuals with serious personality defects and no moral compass whatsoever.  You believe the McCanns fit that profile obviously.

[The Singularity]

I am going off topic here, so moderators please delete if this is in appropriate. It is with regards to the Jamie Bulger abduction and murder for which John Venables and Robert Thompson.

Please review this link regarding prior warnings that were evident alas only with hindsight regarding the murderers lack of empathy and value of human life.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1257614/The-police-sure-James-Bulgers-year-old-killers-simply-wicked-But-parents-dock.html