Scene Of Crime Reconstruction

[Holly Goodhead]

Hopefully David will explain how Sheila shot Nevill standing at the bedroom door, but the four cartridges didn't travel 6 feet forward well into the hallway and onto the stairs.

He has also said this week via a diagram that - "the position of the rifle in the photos. Is the correct and original location". Which means Sheila was not touched by the police. But then didn't answer my question on who then pulled Sheila's legs after the second shot.

David has now posted up his images so I'll respond there. 

I've thought for a long time that SC took her own life against the box room door and was moved by a member(s) of the raid team who were eager to check behind the door and make safe the rifle. 

[Angelo222]

David has now posted up his images so I'll respond there. 

I've thought for a long time that SC took her own life against the box room door and was moved by a member(s) of the raid team who were eager to check behind the door and make safe the rifle.

Except that would have been evidenced by a trail of blood.

Answer this question honestly Holly...  Could she really have shot herself TWICE in the throat without blood being smeared over her neck, her fingers, her nightie and the rifle mechanism?

[Holly Goodhead]

All of which in the end proves nothing, because JB could already have been upstairs, holed up in his own bedroom, or bathroom, or toilet, biding his time until Nevill had gone downstairs to investigate any disturbance, after which he sneaked into the master bedroom to shoot June before encountering Nevill again as he came back up.  Casing positions beside the bedroom door or on the landing are thus rendered useless in identifying the shooter.

When I first mooted NB sustaining his upstairs gsw's on the landing/main stairs I said it doesn't narrow down the perp as there's also a JB guilty scenario.  Puglove has recently highlighted this too.  If it can be shown by way of expert evidence that NB sustained his facial shots coming up the stairs with the perp firing down this lends support to JB's claim of a tel call from NB. 

The casings are one aspect of the physical evidence.  The totality of the physical evidence: bloodstaining and lack of, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks all support the theory NB sustained his upstairs gsw's on the landing/stairs. 

[John]

When I first mooted NB sustaining his upstairs gsw's on the landing/main stairs I said it doesn't narrow down the perp as there's also a JB guilty scenario.  Puglove has recently highlighted this too.  If it can be shown by way of expert evidence that NB sustained his facial shots coming up the stairs with the perp firing down this lends support to JB's claim of a tel call from NB. 

The casings are one aspect of the physical evidence.  The totality of the physical evidence: bloodstaining and lack of, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks all support the theory NB sustained his upstairs gsw's on the landing/stairs.

So how did the bullet casings magically appear inside the bedroom?

[Holly Goodhead]

Except that would have been evidenced by a trail of blood.

Would it?  If SC took her life shortly before or after the police arrived circa 4am then surely by the time the raid team entered at 7.30am livor mortis would prevent further bloodstaining/spilling/trails if SC was then moved?
 

Answer this question honestly Holly...  Could she really have shot herself TWICE in the throat without blood being smeared over her neck, her fingers, her nightie and the rifle mechanism?

I haven't seen any expert evidence for this? 

[adam]

Well, considering my "rudimentary' IT skills" and the ostensible idea that everything I have is stolen. I didn't think id have anything interesting to post really.

So that explains how Sheila shot Nevill from the bedroom door, but the bullet casings were not in the hallway & on the stairs.

The bullet casings actually move sideways six feet. Rather than forwards 6 feet.

Sideways, forwards, I wish you would make you're mind up. A source that the bullet casings from that rifle moves 6 feet would also be good.

It would also be good to know who pulled Sheila's legs after the second shot if the police had not touched Sheila prior to the photographs.

[Holly Goodhead]

So how did the bullet casings magically appear inside the bedroom?

DRH/14 was found on the landing.  DRH/13 on the transition strip between landing and master bedroom.  DRH/3 and 4 just inside the bedroom door which I'm assuming was wide open when the perp discharged the rifle.

Casings eject upwards, forwards and to the right from the ejection port on the rhs of the rifle.  According to MF's trial testimony they can travel up to 4 feet.  The casings seems to align pretty much with NB sustaining his upstairs gsw's on the landing/stairs?

As a stand alone they would probably be pretty insignficant and unreliable but as I said the totality of the physical evidence: bloodstaining, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks all seem to support NB sustaining his upstairs gsw's on the landing/stairs.

I wrote to JB requesting SOC photos of the casings to check on the exact location:

"I've done a huge piece of work on bullets and bullet cases.  Those charts you sent are actual case ones (main bedroom).  But they were not actually true - the police made them up.  DC Hammersly the DRH accronym was not at the scene that morning 07.08.85.  The fourth SOC officer was DC Henderson.  He collected all the exhibits, dad was not shot or wounded upstairs at all".

Imo the above is Mike Tesko talk and shows how poor JB's understanding of his case is.  Why would the police make up the location of the casings which to some degree supports JB's innocence?  DC Bird photographed every casing over the course of 7th - 9th Aug incl.  SOC officer DC Hammersley testified at court the location based on his findings and recording of the casings along with DC Bird's soc photos:

DC Hammersley Trial Testimony

DRH/3

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=199

DRH/3 and 4

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=201

DRH/13 and 14

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=203

I can move things around in my mind's eye and come up with the following scenarios which account for the casings:

- Perp stood in entrance of master bedroom facing out onto landing with NB stood on the landing stairs.  The casings hit the right angle of the bedroom wall, near the dressing table/stool, and fall where they were found.

- Perp stood around winder stairs or main stairs and casings eject over handrail and inside bedroom door. 

If we had soc photos for the casings and images of the landing, winder stairs and main stairs from various perspectives I think it would become clearer. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Well, considering my "rudimentary' IT skills" and the ostensible idea that everything I have is stolen. I didn't think id have anything interesting to post really.

I thought you were working on 3d animation    I said rudimentary as I know 3d animation is petty damn technical.  It's not the sort of thing you can take yourself off and get to grips with easily.

Yes your images are largely based on my creative work and intellectual property 

Post #1 contains my diagrams from Dec 2015: 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6883.msg293857#msg293857

There's no evidence to support your diagram/theory in image 1 that casings have the sort of velocity required to ricochet around as per your white line?  If you take another look at 'Farm Girl' with her Bushmaster you will see one of the casings hits the tree trunk and pretty much falls dead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdAI9j_lDbc

[John]

Would it?  If SC took her life shortly before or after the police arrived circa 4am then surely by the time the raid team entered at 7.30am livor mortis would prevent further bloodstaining/spilling/trails if SC was then moved?
 
I haven't seen any expert evidence for this?

Actually no.  Uncongealed blood was welled up in Sheila's mouth and throat and was expelled when she was moved to the morgue.  Evidence being the photos taken in the bedroom versus those taken in the morgue.

[John]

I wrote to JB requesting SOC photos of the casings to check on the exact location:

"I've done a huge piece of work on bullets and bullet cases.  Those charts you sent are actual case ones (main bedroom).  But they were not actually true - the police made them up.  DC Hammersly the DRH accronym was not at the scene that morning 07.08.85.  The fourth SOC officer was DC Henderson.  He collected all the exhibits, dad was not shot or wounded upstairs at all".

Surely you can't believe that for a moment Holls?   He's clearly deluded if he thinks for a moment that police intentionally misrepresented the crimescene by moving casings upstairs.

[Holly Goodhead]

Well, considering my "rudimentary' IT skills" and the ostensible idea that everything I have is stolen. I didn't think id have anything interesting to post really.

David feedback on your diagrams:

- I recall Patti saying June was in a different position from the found position when she sustained the two gsw's to her head.  As you know I contacted a pathologist who confirmed each of these gsw's rendered June incapable of voluntary movement thereafter so I will have to ask Patti exactly what she meant.  If June was stood around the door handle facing out onto the landing she may have toppled forward and slid down the door into the found position?  This would account for all casings June's side of the bed pertaining to her gsw's.  The assumption seems to be the perp inflicted the 2 gsw's to June's head in the found position.  For sure she was incapable of voluntary movement thereafter but if she was stood or even sat around the corner of the bed facing the landing then there had to have been some involuntary movement ie falling backwards, forwards or sideways.  Falling forward against a moveable object eg the door might account for the found postion?

- Based on the 'Farm Girl' vid very little ricochet from casings.   

- According to Dr Vanezis' trial testimony the gsw to NB's shoulder was fired from above.  The average UK stair rise is 8".  SC was 5'7.5" and NB 6'4".  JB 6.0".  So one stair will make NB and SC about the same height.  Two stairs on the landing doesn't seem sufficient for the trajectory and wound track to NB's shoulder?  Also the average UK stair run is about 9" and MF estimated the distance of NB's shoulder and elbow/chest gsw's to be at least 2 feet away so it doesn't appear the distance fits either? 

[Holly Goodhead]

Surely you can't believe that for a moment Holls?   He's clearly deluded if he thinks for a moment that police intentionally misrepresented the crimescene by moving casings upstairs.

JB met Mike Tesko circa 1989 and I think a lot of JB's case related views have been shaped by Mike's madness.

Here's one of many posts from Mike asserting casings were moved from the kitchen to the bedroom to "accommodate prosecutions case against Jeremy":

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,986.msg29877.html#msg29877

I agree JB is deluded and around this time I gave up trying to talk to him about his case.

[Holly Goodhead]

Actually no.  Uncongealed blood was welled up in Sheila's mouth and throat and was expelled when she was moved to the morgue.  Evidence being the photos taken in the bedroom versus those taken in the morgue.

I haven't seen any pathological evidence to this effect or PM photos. 

I would like to see soc photos of any bloodstaining to the carpet around and under SC's body and bible other than blood drips from June.

[APRIL]

JB met Mike Tesko circa 1989 and I think a lot of JB's case related views have been shaped by Mike's madness.

Here's one of many posts from Mike asserting casings were moved from the kitchen to the bedroom to "accommodate prosecutions case against Jeremy":

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,986.msg29877.html#msg29877

I agree JB is deluded and around this time I gave up trying to talk to him about his case.

Have you considered that, a guilty Jeremy won't be bothered in any way, about how much crap is put out there by way of his defense. He might even find it amusing to sit and listen to what some people are willing to dream up to get him out.

[Holly Goodhead]

Have you considered that, a guilty Jeremy won't be bothered in any way, about how much crap is put out there by way of his defense. He might even find it amusing to sit and listen to what some people are willing to dream up to get him out.

The casings in the official found location, as per SOC officer DC Hammersley's trial testimony and DC Bird's soc photos, actually support JB's innocence.