Scene Of Crime Reconstruction

[Holly Goodhead]

David I will respond to your posts later time permitting.

The high speed vid looks more like a bullet ricocheting back towards the shooter than a casing!?  In any event you need to compare like for like. 

[adam]

David I will respond to your posts later time permitting.

The high speed vid looks more like a bullet ricocheting back towards the shooter than a casing!?  In any event you need to compare like for like.

Whether it's a bullet or casing, it's David's diagram. So in no way a credible source that the casings travel to the right of the rifle and forcefully bounce off walls.

We have to go by David's 2015 independent source that the casings travel forward. Although it's doubtful 6 feet forward on such a low powered rifle. A couple of feet maybe.

I will be pleased to be proved wrong about the 6 feet issue as it just makes it more certain the killer & Nevill were in the bedroom.

[Myster]

David I will respond to your posts later time permitting.

The high speed vid looks more like a bullet ricocheting back towards the shooter than a casing!?  In any event you need to compare like for like.

Exactly... the Walther ejects casings all over the place because no deflector plate is fitted, unlike the Anschutz.

Just for Holly, without a single mens' monokini in sight, thank god... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzSRubFRdcQ

[Holly Goodhead]

What is wrong with providing alternative possibilities? no matter how unlikely. Its important to consider IMO.

The first two are being looked into. Ive passed them onto to those who can actually make something happen from them. What more can I do? I have done all I can as for as those are concerned.

TOD based on lividity, wet blood photos etc. I've never been given a credible argument to invalidate the idea. As it stands I have nothing more to do. CCRC have already got an answer/excuse for it.

Marks on NB's arm caused by fingernails. Not my idea or project. Its already been submitted back in 2004.

BTW this whole effort/investigation in my mind is to establish facts and help correct possible injustice. Its not a competition of who thought of what first. So stop being catty.

If you want to establish facts why are you so careless with them?  Eg claiming the wet blood photos are authentic when bogus lawyer GDS and his cronies claim they were taken at a time before the police photographer even arrrived at WHF!?  Claiming the marks on NB's arms were caused by fingernails when the pathologist refers to the marks and doesn't attribute them to fingernails.  Claiming SC died significantly later than the other victims when all the expert evidence suggests otherwise: Dr Craig, Dr Vanezis, Prof Knight. 

Referring to me as "catty" is somewhat hypocritical when you spend hours, if not days, trawling through posters' posts to find something which contradicts their current position.  How is this attempting to establish facts and help correct possible injustice?  Who gives a flying fig what posters on an internet forum think?  I just see it as an opportunity to debate the case and improve my overall understanding of it. 

[adam]

Hopefully David will today provide his source that the bullet casings from the murder weapon travel to the right and bounce forcefully off walls. By source, I don't mean his own diagram.

Otherwise everyone has to agree the killer fired four bullets into Nevill while both were deep inside the bedroom. The casings ejecting forwards but remaining in the bedroom.

[Holly Goodhead]

Adam put those words in my mouth.

No I don't. Shell casings can and do bounce/richocet. Iv given you several forensic studies on this already. Maybe you have to see it to believe it?

Have you got anything further to support this vid?  Commentary/ text?  How do we know its casings and not bullets ricocheting back towards the shooter?  If live bullets I can only assume the shooter had a death wish. 

Some reconstructionists engage in a very simp
listic analysis, for instance, they may state
that the firearm the officer fired ejected its spent
cartridge cases to the right and the rear when the
firearm was fired on the range. Ther
efore, they continue further with their analysis by asserting
that when the officer fired, and when the spent ca
rtridge cases were ejecte
d, he/she had to be to
the  left  and  to  the  front  of  the  placement  of 
the  spent  cartridge  cases.    However,  other 
reconstructionists understanding the effects of
 weapon manipulation, shooter movement, bounce
factors,  and  other  elements,  began  to  list  and 
accommodate  for  some  of  them.    For  example, 
Edward  Hueske  has  said  that 
reconstruction  of  an  equivalent 
shooting  environment  should  take 
into account the following eight variables: weapon design, weapon condition, ammunition type,
position  weapon  was  held  when  fired,  movement
 of  weapon  during  firing,  how  tightly  the 
weapon  was  held  during  firing,  type  of  terrain 
where  shooting  occurred,  and  the  presence  of 
obstacles (Hueske, 2006)

http://www.forcescience.org/articles/ShellCasingStudy.pdf

The word ricochet does not feature in the above.  Bounce features twice.  Is there a difference between ricochet and bounce in this context? 

Any reconstruction will need to be based on the totality of the physical evidence.  Casings are probably least reliable.  The lack of bloodstaining and trajectories are potentially stronger imo. 

[Caroline]

David I will respond to your posts later time permitting.

The high speed vid looks more like a bullet ricocheting back towards the shooter than a casing!?  In any event you need to compare like for like.

Thought you might find this interesting (if you haven't already seen it) http://www.forcescience.org/articles/ShellCasingStudy.pdf

[Holly Goodhead]

BTW I recreated the shots to Nevill via the anatomical position. Thought this would help. Beats the drawings made back in 1986.

Any trigometric calculations?  How's that for catty?    Meow, meow  *&*%£

http://mobile.journals.lww.com/amjforensicmedicine/Abstract/2003/06000/Reconstruction_of_the_Angle_of_Shot_by_Using.10.aspx

The pathologist I contacted re June's gsw's:

Thanks for the reply – I have read Peter Vanezis’s description, which is rather sparse, as it is normal for the autopsy report to place the wounds more accurately by giving measures from adjacent anatomical land marks – and describing any abrasion collars around the entry,  edge inversions etc and also a description of  any burning, singing of hairs, propellant  deposit etc,  which are used to determine the  range. However, I suppose he relied on the inevitable photographs that would have been taken. and  the Home Office scientist seems to have covered that instead.

[Myster]

Have you got anything further to support this vid?  Commentary/ text?  How do we know its casings and not bullets ricocheting back towards the shooter?  If live bullets I can only assume the shooter had a death wish. 

Of course the objects bouncing around are casings not bullets!!! Women have no sense of direction! Watch the first part of the video I posted showing a Walther being fired. The casings eject out of the top of the gun, not the side, and it isn't fitted with a deflector plate so they travel in various directions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzSRubFRdcQ

[Holly Goodhead]

Of course the objects bouncing around are casings not bullets!!! Women have no sense of direction! Watch the first part of the video I posted showing a Walther being fired. The casings eject out of the top of the gun, not the side, and it isn't fitted with a deflector plate so they travel in various directions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzSRubFRdcQ

I'm getting confused!

The objects in David's gif appear to leave the firearm and travel in a forward motion and ricochet back to the shooter along a very similar path.  To my eye these look like bullets not casings?

The objects in your vid are, as you said, all over the place and are clearly casings?

[adam]

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.

Two of Nevill's upstairs shots were from inches away. This would be as he was either getting or had just got out of bed.  The two related casings would be in the bedroom.

The arm shot would be as Nevill was fully standing up and moving to the door.  Bamber retreating slightly and being less accurrate. This casing also landing in the bedroom.

The back/shoulder shot was after Nevill had got outside the bedroom. The casing being outside the bedroom door.

[Holly Goodhead]

Thought you might find this interesting (if you haven't already seen it) http://www.forcescience.org/articles/ShellCasingStudy.pdf

Thanks.  I've just quoted it above.  You don't read my posts  %#£%

[Holly Goodhead]

Whether it's a bullet or casing, it's David's diagram. So in no way a credible source that the casings travel to the right of the rifle and forcefully bounce off walls.

We have to go by David's 2015 independent source that the casings travel forward. Although it's doubtful 6 feet forward on such a low powered rifle. A couple of feet maybe.

I will be pleased to be proved wrong about the 6 feet issue as it just makes it more certain the killer & Nevill were in the bedroom.

Poor David.  He tries his best 

I haven't read anything about calibre affecting outcome of casing ejection/patterns?

MF's court testimony re casings below.

How reliable is MF based on his intro to the court about a small amount of experience with an air rifle as a boy counting towards his competence as a ballistics expert.  The judge should have thrown this clown out.

[adam]

No one has ever said how Sheila was able to put the rifle within inches of Nevill's face for his first two shots.

These shots were after Nevill had called Bamber downstairs to say "Sheila's gone crazy and she's got the gun".

He either rushed upstairs unprotected after hearing bedroom shots, but did nothing except get shot in the face from inches away.

Or he walked up stairs & was caught by surprise. Not seeing Sheila move forward pointing a gun at his face. This is less likely after what he had said to Bamber.

[Holly Goodhead]

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.

Two of Nevill's upstairs shots were from inches away. This would be as he was either getting or had just got out of bed.  The two related casings would be in the bedroom.

The arm shot would be as Nevill was fully standing up and moving to the door.  Bamber retreating slightly and being less accurrate. This casing also landing in the bedroom.

The back/shoulder shot was after Nevill had got outside the bedroom. The casing being outside the bedroom door.

It's almost certain 6 of the 8 casings June's side of the bed, either on the bed or floor, relate to her gsw's.  How the remaining 6 relate to June's head gsw's and NB's 4 so-called upstairs gsw's is imo unclear. 

If NB was upright when he sustained the other gsw's how do you explain the downward trajectories when NB was taller than JB and SC?

It is necessary to pivot victims, perp, barrel and ejection port around in the mind's eye to test various theories.