CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - with English subtitles

[jassi]

Then there is the little matter of why the original investigators either failed to see the significance of Crecheman's disclosure on the questionnaire or chose to bury it. The information was there to be seen, as stated by DCI Redwood,

Remind me where this document was found, please.
How many years of OG before it came to light?

[Alice Purjorick]

Then there is the little matter of why the original investigators either failed to see the significance of Crecheman's disclosure on the questionnaire or chose to bury it. The information was there to be seen, as stated by DCI Redwood,

How do you know they did either?

[stephen25000]

In my opinion there were incredible omissions in the conduct of the case by the initial investigation ... those they did run with were found to be untenable when properly surveyed by the team which took over to try to pick up the pieces.

In your opinion, which of course is biased by your support of the Mccanns.

I do realize, there are several possibilities, not all of which have been investigated by OG.

Now that amounts to major omissions.

[misty]

Remind me where this document was found, please.
How many years of OG before it came to light?

Everything sent to the PJ was documented. I have no idea how far into the OG investigation the questionnaire was located. OG was launched in May 2011 & the "revelation moment" was revealed in October 2013 on Crimewatch.
No doubt this had been discussed with the new PJ team as they re-opened their investigation within days.
Ruling Tannerman out was not fresh evidence for the PJ - in a way it could have reinforced belief in certain quarters that an abduction did not take place. The PJ were not really interested in Smithman. So, what new piece of evidence would have warranted opening the PJ case?
MOO

[misty]

How do you know they did either?

Amaral would have used it to back up his own theory, that's how.

[jassi]

Everything sent to the PJ was documented. I have no idea how far into the OG investigation the questionnaire was located. OG was launched in May 2011 & the "revelation moment" was revealed in October 2013 on Crimewatch.
No doubt this had been discussed with the new PJ team as they re-opened their investigation within days.
Ruling Tannerman out was not fresh evidence for the PJ - in a way it could have reinforced belief in certain quarters that an abduction did not take place. The PJ were not really interested in Smithman. So, what new piece of evidence would have warranted opening the PJ case?
MOO

Thank you. Is there any evidence that this document was among the PJ files ?. I assume the statement was completed in UK.

[Alice Purjorick]

Amaral would have used it to back up his own theory, that's how.

How do you know that?

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck
If a woulddchuck could chuck would?
As much would as a wouldchuck could chuck,
If a wouldchuck could chuck would.

[misty]

Thank you. Is there any evidence that this document was among the PJ files ?. I assume the statement was completed in UK.

Is there any evidence it wasn't? Why would that particular statement/completed questionnaire have been withheld by LP? Did the PJ not chase up vital evidence from the few parents known to have been on the OC complex with a child during the crucial time period BEFORE deciding itwastheMcCannswotdunit?

[misty]

How do you know that?

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck
If a woulddchuck could chuck would?
As much would as a wouldchuck could chuck,
If a wouldchuck could chuck would.

If Amaral could have legitimately removed Tannerman from the equation, he would have done, leaving the McCanns with just a missing child, the reportedly open window & shutter & precious little else. He managed to see the Gaspars statements which weren't sent to him.

[jassi]

Is there any evidence it wasn't? Why would that particular statement/completed questionnaire have been withheld by LP? Did the PJ not chase up vital evidence from the few parents known to have been on the OC complex with a child during the crucial time period BEFORE deciding itwastheMcCannswotdunit?

It seems to me that you are making assumptions without anything to back them up.
Unless Redwood states where this document was found, we have no way of knowing.

[misty]

It seems to me that you are making assumptions without anything to back them up.
Unless Redwood states where this document was found, we have no way of knowing.

OK. Why do you think the document would not have been in the PJ files. given that the consensus seems to be that the UK police were collaborating to not incrimate the McCanns?

[G-Unit]

Then there is the little matter of why the original investigators either failed to see the significance of Crecheman's disclosure on the questionnaire or chose to bury it. The information was there to be seen, as stated by DCI Redwood,

Which original investigators would that be? Leicestershire Police collected 559 questionnaires from UK people who had been in Luz. Did they send them all to the PJ?

[misty]

Which original investigators would that be? Leicestershire Police collected 559 questionnaires from UK people who had been in Luz. Did they send them all to the PJ?

Can you think of a valid reason why they wouldn't have sent them all, especially the one containing such important information which would have helped the investigation to move forward?
If it wasn't sent for some inexplicable reason, then surely that in itself justified the fresh eyes used in OG.

[G-Unit]

Can you think of a valid reason why they wouldn't have sent them all, especially the one containing such important information which would have helped the investigation to move forward?
If it wasn't sent for some inexplicable reason, then surely that in itself justified the fresh eyes used in OG.

There is an e-mail conversation in the files which suggests that the questionnaires were not sent to Portugal. Detective Constable Mike Marshall is telling Ricardo Paiva;

"I read carefully the written document/questionnaire provided by David Payne."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATERINA-PAYNE-INCIDENT.htm

He then tells Paiva what was in it. Why would he do that if Paiva had a copy?

[misty]

There is an e-mail conversation in the files which suggests that the questionnaires were not sent to Portugal. Detective Constable Mike Marshall is telling Ricardo Paiva;

"I read carefully the written document/questionnaire provided by David Payne."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATERINA-PAYNE-INCIDENT.htm

He then tells Paiva what was in it. Why would he do that if Paiva had a copy?

How did Amaral know what was in statements covered by judicial secrecy but received after he has been removed from the investigation?
For ease of reference, the attached post goes someway to explaining (or not) that particular questionnaire which resulted fom the Gaspars approaching the police rather than the other way around.
If Amaral was

https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.co.uk/2016_12_07_archive.html

On the 16th of May 2007, two doctor friends of the McCanns, and the Paynes, make a statement to Leicestershire Police (LP) in which they express their concern over sexually suggestive gestures made by David Payne on a previous holiday in Majorca. These alleged gestures are considered, by one of the witnesses, to be consistent with acts of paedophilia.

The statements are not sent from LP to the Policia Judiciária (PJ) until 24 October 2007 (arriving on 26 October 2007), 24 days after Gonçalo Amaral had been removed from the investigation.

In an interview with Correio da Manhã, published on 24 July 2008, Gonçalo Amaral states that the depositions arrived in May, but this refers to the date they arrived at LP.

Intriguingly, the letter from LP mentions the completion of a written questionnaire - by David and Fiona Payne - but it is unclear whether that questionnaire was supplied by the PJ or whether it was instigated by LP themselves. There appears to be no copy of the questionnaire anywhere in the PJ files.

Correio da Manhã reports, on 19 July 2008, that 'the depositions ... only entered the process in January 2008 ... At that point in time, Kate and Gerry were already arguidos, the rogatory letters had already been issued and the English, including Dave, showed their reluctance in returning to Portugal.' However, this statement, about the depositions only entering the process in January 2008, does not appear to be supported by the PJ files themselves.