Author Topic: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)  (Read 723707 times)

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Offline misty

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #1995 on: April 22, 2016, 01:48:25 PM »
Fair enough.

Perhaps the Star and Express has some sort of legal review capability, perhaps not.

But until someone higher up the food chain advises me otherwise, I will leave such posts/links alone in future.

My apologies to the original poster of this news.

No problems, SIL. I fully appreciate the difficulties in determining what is & isn't libellous/abusive.

Offline Brietta

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #1996 on: April 22, 2016, 02:01:21 PM »
That's the flip side of the coin. We can only hope that the very authority he wishes to employ him now take the appropriate action against him and he is not permitted to stand for the position of PCC.

Seems to have been an excellent example of investigative journalism from the Express & Star from a man who defends his position ... "I am not racist, not a Zionist, not homophobic. I believe in an open society and what I stand for is on my election material and if elected what I want is a fairer and more just society.”

I'm rather of the opinion that what he actually stands for was plastered all over social media and should probably make his position untenable.
If he withdraws voluntarily will he get his five grand deposit back?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline misty

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #1997 on: April 22, 2016, 02:21:37 PM »
Seems to have been an excellent example of investigative journalism from the Express & Star from a man who defends his position ... "I am not racist, not a Zionist, not homophobic. I believe in an open society and what I stand for is on my election material and if elected what I want is a fairer and more just society.”

I'm rather of the opinion that what he actually stands for was plastered all over social media and should probably make his position untenable.
If he withdraws voluntarily will he get his five grand deposit back?

It wouldn't bother me if he did get his deposit back. People can see him for what he really is, rather like people can read Amaral's opinion of the effect his book may have on the twins, aside from his very public opinions of the McCanns. Whether or not people respect others who hold such opinions is between them & their conscience.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #1998 on: April 22, 2016, 03:35:15 PM »
Fair enough.

Perhaps the Star and Express has some sort of legal review capability, perhaps not.

But until someone higher up the food chain advises me otherwise, I will leave such posts/links alone in future.

My apologies to the original poster of this news.

Newspapers need legal departments if they are to survive, sort of mod for the news.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline John

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #1999 on: April 23, 2016, 07:32:34 PM »
The Strange Case of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the McCanns

By Craig Murray.   Former Ambassador, Human Rights Activist.

I have a confession to make. Back in 2014 I posted that I was going to write something further on the subject of the McCanns. In the end I did not, because I was surprised by the strong emotional reaction I received, from a number of decent people, who were enraged that I might be prepared to write something not to the McCanns’ advantage. But I regret being so pusillanimous, particularly as so much discussion has been suppressed by the extremely aggressive stance taken on threats of libel action on this story.

So in the full knowledge that some decent people will be outraged, here it is.

This week there have been two more developments. The Home Office has announced that it will fund still further the police investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, on which £10 million has already been spent. Plus the appeals court in Lisbon has overturned the libel verdict against the Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, who led the case and formed his own firm convictions at to what happened. The 500,000 euro libel award to the McCanns is now cancelled.

None of these sums of money would matter in the least, and practically nobody would grudge any expense, to have Madeleine McCann alive, safe and happy. There can be nothing worse for a parent than the loss of a child, whatever the circumstances. If the McCanns genuinely do not know what happened, that must be agonising beyond belief. My grandparents had a nineteen year old son, an uncle I never knew, missing in action in World War 2 and the pain never left them, even when his fate was resolved.

And yet, and yet… It is because our children are so precious to us that we treat them as such. I recall an incident on Jamie’s first birthday, which we spent in a hotel in Italy. I was in the room with Jamie. My then wife had gone out to the car. The birthday cake was delivered to reception and had to be paid for. Jamie was fast asleep. I dashed out of the hotel room, down two flights of steps to reception, literally threw the money at them and ran back up the stairs. I was away under two minutes but have never experienced such adrenalin, nor would wish to again. An overwhelming instinct had kicked in telling me I had done wrong in leaving the baby unattended, even so briefly.

I find the McCanns’ behaviour indefensible. There appears to be a disconnect in the public mind in the UK which prevents people from realising just how far the McCanns were from their children. This is a useful graphic just to see the layout, (do not worry about the other info on it).



The McCanns could not actually see their apartment from the tapas bar due to the wall around the pool. To get back there, they had to use the gate and walk around that wall, which made it a 75 yard hike. And the apartment had double doors onto the street on the opposite side of the block from that facing the pool.

I do not see how anybody understanding this geography can consider that it was normal parenting for the McCanns to leave two one year olds and a three year old, alone in the apartment in these circumstances – for hours, and repeatedly several days running. It is something I would absolutely never dream of doing with my own children. If nothing else, had any of the children been crying and in distress – and the chances of that with three tiny children are pretty high – there was no way they could hear them.

The claimed abduction is not the only thing that could have happened. Cholic. Vomiting. Sore nappies. Coughing. Choking. Bad dreams. Overheating. All kinds of thing can distress children. So far as I can judge, it is not that I am weird in my own views, rather it is absolutely accepted in British society that you do not leave 1 year olds without care of an adult. Why are the McCanns an exception?

Which leads me on to the question of why they received such exceptional treatment from British authorities, directed straight from No. 10, to the extent that Blair and Brown eventually gave them a PR representative? I used at one stage to be Resident Clerk in the FCO, a now abolished post effectively of night duty officer. I can tell you from horrible personal experience that the FCO deals with gut-wrenching cases of lost or dead children abroad frequently. I spent one of the most terrible three hours of my life, through to a cold dawn, on the phone with a hysterical bereaved mother desperate to explore any avenue that might give a possibility that the boy who had just drowned in Brazil was misidentified as her son. On average, I am afraid such tragedies get substantially less than 1% of the public resources that were devoted to the McCanns.

I am going to come straight out with this. British diplomatic staff were under direct instruction to support the McCanns far beyond the usual and to put pressure on the Portuguese authorities over the case. I have direct information that more than one of those diplomatic staff found the McCanns less than convincing and their stories inconsistent. Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police.

This again is absolutely not the norm. On a daily basis more British citizens have contact with foreign authorities than the total staff of the FCO. It would be simply impossible to give that level of support to everybody. Plus, against jingoistic presumption, a great many Brits who have contact with foreign police are actually criminals.

The British Ambassador in Portugal, John Buck, had been my direct boss in the FCO. he was Deputy Head of Southern European Department when I was Head of Cyprus Section. He and his staff were concerned by contradictions in the McCann’s story. The Embassy warned, in writing, that being perceived as too close to the McCanns might not prove wise. They demanded the instruction from London be reconfirmed. It was.

I know of people’s misgivings because I was told directly. But material was also leaked to a Belgian newspaper confirming what I have said. It was published by the Express, but like so much other material which is not supportive of the McCanns, it got taken down. Fortunately that last link preserved it. It also shows that the FCO continues to refuse Freedom of Information requests for the material on the interesting grounds that it might damage relations with Portugal.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not believe there was a high level paedophile ring involved. I make no such argument. Nor do I claim to know what happened to Madeleine McCann. But I do believe that the McCanns were less than exemplary parents. I believe that New Labour’s No.10 saw, in typical Blair fashion, a highly photogenic tragedy which there might be popularity in appearing to work on.

And I believe there is a genuine danger that the high profile support from the top of the British government might have put some psychological pressure on the Portuguese investigators and prosecuting officers in their determinations.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.


Offline sadie

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #2001 on: April 26, 2016, 04:09:38 PM »
 
The Strange Case of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the McCanns

By Craig Murray.   Former Ambassador, Human Rights Activist.

I have a confession to make. Back in 2014 I posted that I was going to write something further on the subject of the McCanns. In the end I did not, because I was surprised by the strong emotional reaction I received, from a number of decent people, who were enraged that I might be prepared to write something not to the McCanns’ advantage. But I regret being so pusillanimous, particularly as so much discussion has been suppressed by the extremely aggressive stance taken on threats of libel action on this story.

So in the full knowledge that some decent people will be outraged, here it is.

This week there have been two more developments. The Home Office has announced that it will fund still further the police investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, on which £10 million has already been spent. Plus the appeals court in Lisbon has overturned the libel verdict against the Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, who led the case and formed his own firm convictions at to what happened. The 500,000 euro libel award to the McCanns is now cancelled.

None of these sums of money would matter in the least, and practically nobody would grudge any expense, to have Madeleine McCann alive, safe and happy. There can be nothing worse for a parent than the loss of a child, whatever the circumstances. If the McCanns genuinely do not know what happened, that must be agonising beyond belief. My grandparents had a nineteen year old son, an uncle I never knew, missing in action in World War 2 and the pain never left them, even when his fate was resolved.

And yet, and yet… It is because our children are so precious to us that we treat them as such. I recall an incident on Jamie’s first birthday, which we spent in a hotel in Italy. I was in the room with Jamie. My then wife had gone out to the car. The birthday cake was delivered to reception and had to be paid for. Jamie was fast asleep. I dashed out of the hotel room, down two flights of steps to reception, literally threw the money at them and ran back up the stairs. I was away under two minutes but have never experienced such adrenalin, nor would wish to again. An overwhelming instinct had kicked in telling me I had done wrong in leaving the baby unattended, even so briefly.

I find the McCanns’ behaviour indefensible. There appears to be a disconnect in the public mind in the UK which prevents people from realising just how far the McCanns were from their children. (And you are putting out disinformation.  Perhaps you have never been there?) This is a useful graphic just to see the layout, (do not worry about the other info on it).



The McCanns could not actually see their apartment from the tapas bar due to the wall around the pool. (This is untrue.  The rear of apartment 5A was raised because it was on a hill and there were about 10 steps up.  When the greenery had been newly pruned back, as it had when Madeleine vanished, the tapas group could see well over the wall and also see most of the patio area and patio windows.  I have eaten at the Tapas restaurant and observed.)
To get back there, they had to use the gate and walk around that wall, which made it a 75 yard hike. And the apartment had double doors onto the street (Totally incorrect.  There was a SINGLE door, at the front, which opened onto a longish walled walkway.  This walkway opened out at the end on to a largish walled car park, which had one exit on to the road.    At the rear there were patio doors that opened on to a balcony with views of the tapas Restaurant only 50 metres away.  The balcony had a child gate at the top which was closed and then steps and then another closed gate onto the street.     
Oh, and they did NOT have to walk around the wall that you are referring to.
on the opposite side of the block from that facing the pool. 

I do not see how anybody understanding this geography {haha !, he clearly doesn't !   He got it all wrong !}can consider that it was normal parenting for the McCanns to leave two one year olds (Got it wrong again mate.  The twins were born on Feb 2nd 2005 and were 2 years 3 months old on the day that Madeleine vanished) , and a three year old ((now this is correct, but Madeleine was nearer 4 than 3 cos her 4th birthday was just 9 days later on May 12th) , alone in the apartment in these circumstances – for hours (but with regular checks every 30 minutes or more often.  This is better than most hotels did when they were asked to check on children in  rooms),   and repeatedly several days running. It is something I would absolutely never dream of doing with my own children. If nothing else, had any of the children been crying and in distress – and the chances of that with three tiny children are pretty high – there was no way they could hear them.

The claimed abduction is not the only thing that could have happened. Cholic. Vomiting. Sore nappies. Coughing. Choking. Bad dreams. Overheating. All kinds of thing can distress children. So far as I can judge, it is not that I am weird in my own views, rather it is absolutely accepted in British society that you do not leave 1 year olds without care of an adult.  To remind you, you got the ages wrong mate!   Why are the McCanns an exception?  (and prior to Madeleine being taken, it was common everyday practice at Butlins and many hotels ... so The Mccanns were only doing what thousands had done over the decades)   

Which leads me on to the question of why they received such exceptional treatment from British authorities, directed straight from No. 10, to the extent that Blair and Brown eventually gave them a PR representative? I used at one stage to be Resident Clerk in the FCO, a now abolished post effectively of night duty officer. I can tell you from horrible personal experience that the FCO deals with gut-wrenching cases of lost or dead children abroad frequently. I spent one of the most terrible three hours of my life, through to a cold dawn, on the phone with a hysterical bereaved mother desperate to explore any avenue that might give a possibility that the boy who had just drowned in Brazil was misidentified as her son. On average, I am afraid such tragedies get substantially less than 1% of the public resources that were devoted to the McCanns.

I am going to come straight out with this. British diplomatic staff were under direct instruction to support the McCanns far beyond the usual and to put pressure on the Portuguese authorities over the case. I have direct information that more than one of those diplomatic staff found the McCanns less than convincing and their stories inconsistent. Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police.  (I cant ask Craig for cites to prove what he is saying altho I would like to.  I would like to ask, "Are you certain of all this, Craig?" ....  But, in any case, why should anyone be peturbed that Embassy Staff should be present at every meeting? .. if they were?   Seems the correct procedure to me)This again is absolutely not the norm. On a daily basis more British citizens have contact with foreign authorities than the total staff of the FCO. It would be simply impossible to give that level of support to everybody. ( Yes, but this was not about a trivial motoring offence or about a camera being stolen, this was about a little girl being potentually stolen ... rather different, dont you think?)    

Plus, against jingoistic presumption, a great many Brits who have contact with foreign police are actually criminals.  (What's this got to do with The Mccanns?   Craig isn't trying to implant seeds of doubt about the honesty of The Mccanns into the readers mind, is he ? ... sort of subliminal stuff/ propaganda.)

The British Ambassador in Portugal, John Buck, had been my direct boss in the FCO. he was Deputy Head of Southern European Department when I was Head of Cyprus Section. He and his staff were concerned by contradictions in the McCann’s story. The Embassy warned, in writing, that being perceived as too close to the McCanns might not prove wise. They demanded the instruction from London be reconfirmed. It was.  [Self promotion and Chinese whispers here, it seems .... citation please]

I know of people’s misgivings because I was told directly. But material was also leaked to a Belgian newspaper confirming what I have said. It was published by the Express, but like so much other material which is not supportive of the McCanns, it got taken down. Fortunately that last link preserved it. (After what happened with officialdom, the media and The Mark Dutroux Paedophile Affair in Belgium ... also the cannabis processing from Kif (hemp) to cocaine, crack, Marijuana, hashish, etc. and global distribution at Molenbeek St John in Brussels where Madeleine was sighted walking around the bank and videoed.    The cannabis (kif) having been grown in the Rif Mountains, before being sent to Molenbeek St John for processing and distribution. 

Zinat is in the drug growing Rif Mountains (it is on a massive global scale) and that is where Madeleine was sighted being carried on a wo/mans back. 

And then there was a Madeleine sighting in Leh in the Himalayas.  Ley is where most of the Hashish coming into India arrived.   

After all this can we trust anything coming from Belgium? )
It also shows that the FCO continues to refuse Freedom of Information requests for the material on the interesting grounds that it might damage relations with Portugal.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not believe there was a high level paedophile ring involved. (your thoughts, and you got virtually everything else WRONG !) I make no such argument. Nor do I claim to know what happened to Madeleine McCann. But I do believe that the McCanns were less than exemplary parents. I believe that New Labour’s No.10 saw, in typical Blair fashion, a highly photogenic tragedy which there might be popularity in appearing to work on.

And I believe there is a genuine danger that the high profile support from the top of the British government might have put some psychological pressure on the Portuguese investigators and prosecuting officers in their determinations.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/
What a load of clap trap this guy Craig Murray speaks.   He has put out so much biased disinformation in the one piece, it makes one wonder... Are you part of a propaganda machine, Craig ? 

ETA Thanks for the corrections on the Kif/ cannabis derivatives.  you obviously know a good deal more about them than I know

Offline G-Unit

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #2002 on: April 26, 2016, 05:03:36 PM »

What a load of clap trap this guy Craig Murray speaks.   He has put out so much biased disinformation in the one piece, it makes one wonder... Are you part of a propaganda machine, Craig ?

Disinformation? You said;

"also the cannabis processing from Kif (hemp) to cocaine, crack, hashish, etc. and global distribution at Molenbeek St John in Brussels where Madeleine was sighted walking around the bank and videod.    The canabis (kif) having been grown in the Rif Mountains, before being sent to Molenbeek St John for processing and distribution". 

Please note;

Cannabis is a plant which has an effect if you smoke it's buds.

Kif is a cannabis product too. When pressed it becomes hash or hashish.

Hemp is a variation of cannabis which doesn't have any effect if you smoke it.

Cocaine is nothing to do with cannabis it comes from the coca plant.

Crack has nothing to do with cannabis, it's cocaine based.

The girl seen in Brussels wasn't Madeleine McCann.




« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 04:08:37 PM by John »
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Offline pegasus

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #2003 on: April 26, 2016, 09:11:11 PM »
"Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police".
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/

I've already pointed out that KM's book is a useful and honest source.
What Craig says is confirmed by KM:

"regular meetings set up with the police at the British consulate in Portimão"
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Gl1YDgqho6kC&printsec=frontcover

« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 09:21:47 PM by pegasus »

Offline sadie

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #2004 on: April 26, 2016, 11:59:22 PM »
Disinformation? You said;

"also the cannabis processing from Kif (hemp) to cocaine, crack, hashish, etc. and global distribution at Molenbeek St John in Brussels where Madeleine was sighted walking around the bank and videod.    The canabis (kif) having been grown in the Rif Mountains, before being sent to Molenbeek St John for processing and distribution". 

Please note;

Cannabis is a plant which has an effect if you smoke it's buds.

Kif is a cannabis product too. When pressed it becomes hash or hashish.

Hemp is a variation of cannabis which doesn't have any effect if you smoke it.

Cocaine is nothing to do with cannabis it comes from the coca plant.

Crack has nothing to do with cannabis, it's cocaine based.

The girl seen in Brussels wasn't Madeleine McCann.

Thank you Gumit.  You obviously know a good deal more about the derivatives of Cannabis/ kif than I do.  Have correcyed my post.

However, I disagree about the little girl being walked around the bank in Molenbeek St John.  I believe that she was Madeleine as do many people.

Now, I am doing this from memory, but I think that the Mccanns thought that she was likely to be Madeleine too.  Also the little girl being carried on the wo/mans back in Zinat in the Rif mountains was thought to be Madeleine by The Mccanns.

I believe both were Madeleine ... and having studied, practiced and taught figure drawing and portraiture for over 60 years, I have rather a good eye.

Offline sadie

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #2005 on: April 27, 2016, 12:10:45 AM »
"Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police".
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/

I've already pointed out that KM's book is a useful and honest source.
What Craig says is confirmed by KM:

"regular meetings set up with the police at the British consulate in Portimão"
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Gl1YDgqho6kC&printsec=frontcover

Umm, with all due respect, Pegasus

  "regular meetings set up with the police at the British consulate in Portimão" does not confirm that
  "Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police".

Kate says nothing about the staff being ordered to do anything and neither does she confirm that the Embassy staff were peturbed in any way.

In such a case as this, with added language difficulties, it would be astonishing if the Embassy staff had not been present at every contact between the Mccanns and Portuguese police.   Additionally they would have been aware of the torture and injustices in the Michael Cook and the Cipriano cases.  They would want to ensure that the same did not happen to Kate and Gerry

Offline Matthew Wyse

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #2006 on: April 27, 2016, 01:12:14 AM »
Thank you Gumit.  You obviously know a good deal more about the derivatives of Cannabis/ kif than I do.  Have correcyed my post.

However, I disagree about the little girl being walked around the bank in Molenbeek St John.  I believe that she was Madeleine as do many people.

Now, I am doing this from memory, but I think that the Mccanns thought that she was likely to be Madeleine too.  Also the little girl being carried on the wo/mans back in Zinat in the Rif mountains was thought to be Madeleine by The Mccanns.

I believe both were Madeleine ... and having studied, practiced and taught figure drawing and portraiture for over 60 years, I have rather a good eye.

you are welcome to post opinion but in my opinion you are totally mistaken.
Most people suspect the truth but few are able to admit it.


stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #2008 on: April 27, 2016, 08:12:23 AM »
Why?

They have been discounted Sadie already by the Police, some time ago, and you know that.

Offline G-Unit

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #2009 on: April 27, 2016, 11:41:15 AM »
A terrible neighborhood it seems. Read all about it;

Molenbeek-Saint-Jean is not just a terrible neighborhood — it is the root of all evil. It is basically the Mordor of Europe’s Middle-Earth. This is why you should never, ever go there; in fact, most people who go to Molenbeek either disappear or become insane because they can’t handle the pleasantly leafy streets, the beautiful art-nouveau architecture, or the buzzing multicultural vibe. Don’t say we didn’t warn you.
http://theculturetrip.com/europe/belgium/articles/10-reasons-you-should-never-visit-molenbeek-saint-jean/
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