Operation Task Methodology

[G-Unit]

Anyone who hasn't read Amaral's book is ignoring a huge amount of evidence IMO.

I was discussing the evidence in the debrief of Operation Task which demonstrates it's lack of methodology and the mistakes that were made.

[barrier]

unprececedented action for a somewhat unique crime...they must have felt the portuguese were not capable...all my opinion

Well the lack of progress with the help provided doesn't exactly show the brits were capable.imo and all that jazz.

Page one of Op Task debrief.

The investigation has,to date,failed (yes failed) to discover the whereabouts of Madeleine MCcann and no one has been charged in relation to her disappearence

Those words equally apply to operation grange.

[G-Unit]

Quote from the President of the Portuguese Bar Association

Quote
ANTONIO MARINHO PINTO: (translated) I’m convinced the McCann case will feature in Portuguese judicial history as a bad example. What a criminal investigation should not be.
Unquote

I thought we were discussing Operation Task.

[stephen25000]

Well the lack of progress with the help provided doesn't exactly show the brits were capable.imo and all that jazz.

Page one of Op Task debrief.

Those words equally apply to operation grange.

Indeed.

Quite right Barrier.

[Benice]

I was discussing the evidence in the debrief of Operation Task which demonstrates it's lack of methodology and the mistakes that were made.

Erm no - you were making a personal comment about another poster and saying how impressed you were with his ability to ignore evidence and apparently deliberately so.     Incidentally all posted as fact and not your opinion.

IMO your personal comment perfectly describes anyone who hasn't read Amaral's book.   If that's not ignoring evidence on a grand scale then I don't know what is.

[G-Unit]

Erm no - you were making a personal comment about another poster and saying how impressed you were with his ability to ignore evidence and apparently deliberately so.     Incidentally all posted as fact and not your opinion.

IMO your personal comment perfectly describes anyone who hasn't read Amaral's book.   If that's not ignoring evidence on a grand scale then I don't know what is.

The poster said Operation Task provided;

Justified assisiatnce to the family and help in solving the disappearance....imo

The assistance provided to the family was unprecedented. None of the other serious crimes against British nationals overseas reported to the FCO got three FLO's sent out within 2 days. The debrief doesn't recommend such a response in the future either, recommending that family support and assistance is best left to the FCO.

The help given to the investigation was uncoordinated and unfit for purpose on the whole. The debrief recommends more planning, more attention to the legal requirements of the other country and an awareness that
practices which are used in the UK aren't always suitable in other countries.

The disappearance was not solved and the help offered by the UK may have hindered rather than helped, as Jim Gamble noted.

[Benice]

The poster said Operation Task provided;

Justified assisiatnce to the family and help in solving the disappearance....imo

The assistance provided to the family was unprecedented. None of the other serious crimes against British nationals overseas reported to the FCO got three FLO's sent out within 2 days. The debrief doesn't recommend such a response in the future either, recommending that family support and assistance is best left to the FCO.

The help given to the investigation was uncoordinated and unfit for purpose on the whole. The debrief recommends more planning, more attention to the legal requirements of the other country and an awareness that
practices which are used in the UK aren't always suitable in other countries.

The disappearance was not solved and the help offered by the UK may have hindered rather than helped, as Jim Gamble noted.

Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing.   I'm sure many lessons have been learned both in the UK and in Portugal which have resulted in procedures/practices etc being recognised and adopted as beneficial -  as well as some being recognised and discarded as not beneficial  - which will increase the chances of missing children being found in future.

AIMHO

[Robittybob1]

Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing.   I'm sure many lessons have been learned both in the UK and in Portugal which have resulted in procedures/practices etc being recognised and adopted as beneficial -  as well as some being recognised and discarded as not beneficial  - which will increase the chances of missing children being found in future.

AIMHO

Can you name a change?

[G-Unit]

Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing.   I'm sure many lessons have been learned both in the UK and in Portugal which have resulted in procedures/practices etc being recognised and adopted as beneficial -  as well as some being recognised and discarded as not beneficial  - which will increase the chances of missing children being found in future.

AIMHO

The Portuguese certainly appeared to learn one lesson. A joint investigation was suggested but there wasn't a chance of that after the way the British behaved first time round. The Portuguese have remained firmly in control of their jurisdiction during Operation Grange.

[barrier]

The Portuguese certainly appeared to learn one lesson. A joint investigation was suggested but there wasn't a chance of that after the way the British behaved first time round. The Portuguese have remained firmly in control of their jurisdiction during Operation Grange.

Once bitten, twice shy.

[John]

What makes any one think SY can solve a crime in a foreign country where they have no jurisdiction and its essentially a Portuguese investigation.(Hogan Howes words)

I totally agree, SY are merely tourists in Portugal with no power whatsoever to advance any investigation.  And as far as I can see the Portuguese are merely paying lip service to them for the sake of diplomatic relations.

[John]

They have the power to have witnesse interviewed and can draw up questions to be put to them...your claim of no power is therefore wrong

They have no power in Portugal, all they can do is make requests.

[John]

Relative to what? The 900 or so other crimes committed against UK citizens abroad in 2007? They included murder, rape and abduction but they didn't get the same response.

I don't know what 'the right channels' are. The FCO contacted someone and the PJ asked for FLO's as a result. As it had rarely or never been done before we don't know if that was the right way to do it or not.

Undue levels of contact with the family by MP's, ministers and senior police officers along with media comment by them led to the officers on the ground in Portugal being seen in Portugal as representing the interests of the family rather than the interests of justice. (page 42)

From a Portuguese perspective there was certainly interference in my opinion.

Unprecedented interference IMO.

[Mr Gray]

They have no power in Portugal, all they can do is make requests.

Unfortunately I don't think they will but they have the power to solve the case....

[Angelo222]

Unfortunately I don't think they will but they have the power to solve the case....

I disagree, that power in my opinion only lies with the Portuguese authorities.