Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence

[pathfinder73]

The report correctly contained different search scenarios. The beach being so close to the sighting then of course they would assume that was his destination. If it was Madeleine - do you think he would stay on the streets with people about or head straight for the dark empty beach. The answer is obvious in that scenario. You do not stay on lit streets -  the reason Smithman took the darker quieter backstreet route when passing the Irish family.

"By now we were more than familiar with cases where evidence had been missed the first time round and discovered on further searches (in one instance the UK police had told us about, a wallet sitting in a bush)." (Madeleine by KM)

[jassi]

So he's got to the beach. what is likely to happen next as i guess he's not planning on just taking a stroll?

[G-Unit]

Do you read more into the Harrison report than just instructions on how to conduct a search?

It was a lot more than that. He assessed the early searches, examined Krugel's claims and advised where a body may have been concealed.

[Robittybob1]

It was a lot more than that. He assessed the early searches, examined Krugel's claims and advised where a body may have been concealed.

Yes OK I wasn't really meaning his whole report, but the section of the beach search part that Pathfinder had referred to.
The fact that Harrison says how to search an area for a body doesn't imply that is where the body is IMO.

[Mr Gray]

Thank you for this Brietta.

I have already given thought to how I might obtain human remains, and I think that problem is solvable.

Here's where the wheels come off the bus.

We have a very small freezer, so any human remains would be getting stored alongside my steak and kidney pies, pizza and frozen fish.  Commonly known as yuk!

My family already think I'm weird.  Starting up a human body farm in our back garden might convince them I should be committed to the loony bin.

But what I want is a victim recovery dog.  I would like the dog to be able to give two different alerts, one for dead and one for alive.

I don't want to train Gonçalo as a cadaver dog.  I want him to be able to tell me when a victim is still alive.  A victim recovery dog.  VRD.

If the victim is there you will know if it's dead or alive so you must be reffering to remnant scent...
So a cadaver dog and a live tracking dog...
Don't really see the use... We know there was a live maddie in that apartment for absolute sure... Some think there was, also a deceased one... What is your theoretical dog going to theoretically  tell us.... The dog can only tell us... If it's accurate.... If the victim was alive... Not if the victim is still alive

[ShiningInLuz]

If the victim is there you will know if it's dead or alive so you must be reffering to remnant scent...
So a cadaver dog and a live tracking dog...
Don't really see the use... We know there was a live maddie in that apartment for absolute sure... Some think there was, also a deceased one... What is your theoretical dog going to theoretically  tell us.... The dog can only tell us... If it's accurate.... If the victim was alive... Not if the victim is still alive

You haven't got your starter for ten right.

I am not trying to train Eddie or Keela.

Nor am I interested in deploying Gonçalo in a crime scene a la Madeleine.

I am interested in what is involved in the training of a VR dog.

[barrier]

You haven't got your starter for ten right.

I am not trying to train Eddie or Keela.

Nor am I interested in deploying Gonçalo in a crime scene a la Madeleine.

I am interested in what is involved in the training of a VR dog.

I somehow think JF is not the right platform.

[Mr Gray]

You haven't got your starter for ten right.

I am not trying to train Eddie or Keela.

Nor am I interested in deploying Gonçalo in a crime scene a la Madeleine.

I am interested in what is involved in the training of a VR dog.

A VR dog is a cadaver dog..

[Brietta]

Thank you for this Brietta.

I have already given thought to how I might obtain human remains, and I think that problem is solvable.

Here's where the wheels come off the bus.

We have a very small freezer, so any human remains would be getting stored alongside my steak and kidney pies, pizza and frozen fish.  Commonly known as yuk!

My family already think I'm weird.  Starting up a human body farm in our back garden might convince them I should be committed to the loony bin.

But what I want is a victim recovery dog.  I would like the dog to be able to give two different alerts, one for dead and one for alive.

I don't want to train Gonçalo as a cadaver dog.  I want him to be able to tell me when a victim is still alive.  A victim recovery dog.  VRD.

I found a news report giving details of VRDs deployed to locate remains who discovered an Alzheimer sufferer who had wandered off and had succumbed to exposure, exhaustion etc. but who was still alive.
The report said that the dogs didn't quite know what to make of the situation; they kept their distance but they didn't ignore him and circled him until the handler investigated.  Can't find it now, of course

From that I took it that it was either or.  Apparently that is not the case if this is anything to go by ... https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126167771

If you are training Goncalo to alert both to dead people and live ones how about two different alerts? 
A stationary, silent Keela type for one and a bark for a live find (the grandchildren will love it!).
Just watch where you store the dead scent stuff ... I'm with the family on scratching my head on that one.

[Brietta]

You haven't got your starter for ten right.

I am not trying to train Eddie or Keela.

Nor am I interested in deploying Gonçalo in a crime scene a la Madeleine.

I am interested in what is involved in the training of a VR dog.

I did have a link at one time to a blog specifically for VRD handlers/trainers as well as newbies which is interesting and very very informative.  They share experiences etc.  It is American based.
I've not read it for a while and don't have a link but it should be easy to locate in a search ... it does question and answer too and there is a generic mix of posts and posters ... that could cut a few corners for you if you can locate the blog.

I'll have a look too if you have no success.

[Carana]

I did have a link at one time to a blog specifically for VRD handlers/trainers as well as newbies which is interesting and very very informative.  They share experiences etc.  It is American based.
I've not read it for a while and don't have a link but it should be easy to locate in a search ... it does question and answer too and there is a generic mix of posts and posters ... that could cut a few corners for you if you can locate the blog.

I'll have a look too if you have no success.

Ah... that rings a bell. K9Snoop on Websleuths? ... I'm not a member and my old link doesn't work any more.

Tried a different way.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?227047-A-few-questions&styleid=21


ETA: A caveat is that training in the US may well be different (possibly primarily training on human cadaver material or different training techniques).

[Carana]

I don't recall reading anything about dogs trained for both search and recovery (alive) and victim recovery (dead). In disasters, AFAIK, they send in S&Rs first, then when, sadly hope's run out, the VRDs.

[Robittybob1]

I don't recall reading anything about dogs trained for both search and recovery (alive) and victim recovery (dead). In disasters, AFAIK, they send in S&Rs first, then when, sadly hope's run out, the VRDs.

I don't see why not, a dog in the natural state would attempt to track several different species.

[Mr Gray]

I don't recall reading anything about dogs trained for both search and recovery (alive) and victim recovery (dead). In disasters, AFAIK, they send in S&Rs first, then when, sadly hope's run out, the VRDs.

it seems they dont do both as SAr dogs become discouraged if they only find dead bodies...this might sound strange but it seeem they miss the euphoria and feed back when finding live persons

[Brietta]

I didn't find the blog I used to visit.  While looking for it I came across this one which at first glance looks as if there are a few points of interest.
http://specopsblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/sar-dog-distance-alerts-how-they-can.html