UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Alfie on October 08, 2016, 06:55:24 PM
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Until someone is convicted in this case everyone is still a suspect, or so the theory goes (amongst some of us anyway). So, what of Murat? Is the 1st arguido, Robert Murat, no longer of interest in this case? Let's discuss...
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Until someone is convicted in this case everyone is still a suspect, or so the theory goes (amongst some of us anyway). So, what of Murat? Is the 1st arguido, Robert Murat, no longer of interest in this case? Let's discuss...
Why?
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Until someone is convicted in this case everyone is still a suspect, or so the theory goes (amongst some of us anyway). So, what of Murat? Is the 1st arguido, Robert Murat, no longer of interest in this case? Let's discuss...
I always thought why he was chosen to become part of the investigation is important.
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I always thought why he was chosen to become part of the investigation is important.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2007/may/16/giles.tremlett.on.madeleine.mccann
1m13s partly explains why.
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https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2007/may/16/giles.tremlett.on.madeleine.mccann
1m13s partly explains why.
So who put Murat in the frame ??
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Irrespective of who put him in the frame, was there any evidence?
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https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2007/may/16/giles.tremlett.on.madeleine.mccann
1m13s partly explains why.
He was involved in realestate, he lived close by, he knew the languages and he was interested.
I tend to think that the people who were involved had a problem if Robert Murat was not controlled. A bit like another ShinginLuz character that knew how PDL worked.
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Irrespective of who put him in the frame, was there any evidence?
Everything he has said.
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Irrespective of who put him in the frame, was there any evidence?
I think it's what's called an alibi.
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I think it's what's called an alibi.
Which of his 3 "alibis" would that be?
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Which of his 3 "alibis" would that be?
Whichever one can't be broken.
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Which of his 3 "alibis" would that be?
What were the three alibis?
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What were the three alibis?
Unknown witness said he was drinking in a pub elsewhere
He originally said he went to a JW meeting but changed his mind
His mother said he was at home all night
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Unknown witness said he was drinking in a pub elsewhere
He originally said he went to a JW meeting but changed his mind
His mother said he was at home all night
Actual cites please. This is all news to me.
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Actual cites please. This is all news to me.
Try reading some of this:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id90.html
The quotes from Clarence Mitchell if you can find them are a eye opener.
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Try reading some of this:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id90.html
The quotes from Clarence Mitchell if you can find them are a eye opener.
I want the precise sentences rather than another book to read.
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I want the precise sentences rather than another book to read.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-saw-stalker-by-maddy-apartment-284548#ixzz2S9jc4Atl
*snipped*
A friend of suspect Robert Murat, 34, falsely told police the Brit expat was drunk in a cafe the night Madeleine vanished.
Murat insists he was at home with his mother Jenny, 71. A source told newspaper 24 Horas: "The friend guaranteed Murat was in a coffee shop about five kilometres from the Ocean Club. He said he left drunk."
Murat's lawyer Francisco Pagarete, said: "He tried to defend Robert and ended up prejudicing him. We can prove Murat was with his mother."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm
*snipped*
"After entering, he may have taken some tea and turned on the TV or it was already on. He may also have read a newspaper. He talked with the mother, who if she was not there had arrived shortly afterwards, about Romigen. He ate a sandwich of cheese and ham sitting in the kitchen with his mother, until 22:00 or 23:00. Contrary to what he said originally, he was not with MICHAELA when she went to a Jehovah witnesses' meeting between 20:00 and 22:00, which is why he didn't phone her, because she turns her phone off."
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I'm not really into spoonfeeding either :)
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The officers attending the scene at the time were the ones who found his behaviour suspicious, as well as some of the UK journalists.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-saw-stalker-by-maddy-apartment-284548#ixzz2S9jc4Atl
*snipped*
A friend of suspect Robert Murat, 34, falsely told police the Brit expat was drunk in a cafe the night Madeleine vanished.
Murat insists he was at home with his mother Jenny, 71. A source told newspaper 24 Horas: "The friend guaranteed Murat was in a coffee shop about five kilometres from the Ocean Club. He said he left drunk."
Murat's lawyer Francisco Pagarete, said: "He tried to defend Robert and ended up prejudicing him. We can prove Murat was with his mother."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm
*snipped*
"After entering, he may have taken some tea and turned on the TV or it was already on. He may also have read a newspaper. He talked with the mother, who if she was not there had arrived shortly afterwards, about Romigen. He ate a sandwich of cheese and ham sitting in the kitchen with his mother, until 22:00 or 23:00. Contrary to what he said originally, he was not with MICHAELA when she went to a Jehovah witnesses' meeting between 20:00 and 22:00, which is why he didn't phone her, because she turns her phone off."
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I'm not really into spoonfeeding either :)
I don't call that an alibi. If RM said he he was in the coffee shop and his friend backed him up that is an alibi.
A friend of suspect Robert Murat, 34, falsely told police the Brit expat was drunk in a cafe the night Madeleine vanished.
Murat insists he was at home with his mother Jenny, 71. A source told newspaper 24 Horas: "The friend guaranteed Murat was in a coffee shop about five kilometres from the Ocean Club. He said he left drunk."
What time did his friend say he left?
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The officers attending the scene at the time were the ones who found his behaviour suspicious, as well as some of the UK journalists.
Are you saying he was THERE on the night and police said he was?
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Are you saying he was THERE on the night and police said he was?
Some people placed him at the scene on the night. I meant the police found his behaviour suspicious in the following days - but then you know that anyway.
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Where is this "original" bit recorded? "Contrary to what he said originally, he was not with MICHAELA"
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Where is this "original" bit recorded? "Contrary to what he said originally, he was not with MICHAELA"
In his second statement. Scroll a long way down the page I linked to.
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I think it's what's called an alibi.
The McCanns have alibis for the time of the Smith sighting, but these are widely disregarded by "sceptics" so why should we believe Murat's alibi (his mother fgs)?.
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The McCanns have alibis for the time of the Smith sighting, but these are widely disregarded by "sceptics" so why should we believe Murat's alibi (his mother fgs)?.
No they dont
They smiths have alibis per cafe/restaurant receipts
The mccanns and friends dont
Murat didnt NEED an alibi until x y z decided to mKe it seem he might do...oooh
Can you remember who fingered him
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No they dont
They smiths have alibis per cafe/restaurant receipts
The mccanns and friends dont
Murat didnt NEED an alibi until x y z decided to mKe it seem he might do...oooh
Can you remember who fingered him
Goncalo Amaral.
**Snip
I arrive in front of a house with a neglected garden. Inside, there are two parked cars, whose registration numbers I note down. I communicate the numbers to the police in Portimão and wait there for the result of the check. After a few minutes, a green vehicle, driven by an individual wearing glasses, stops in front of the entrance to the house. The driver goes in quickly. His face is familiar to me but I don't know who he is. I notice a child's seat inside the car. The man comes back out a little later, supporting an elderly lady whom he accompanies towards the area of the swimming pools and the Tapas restaurant. They cross a park where a few buildings have been erected. Madeleine's parents took this route to take their children to the play centre, near the main reception area of the hotel complex. Since the start of the investigation , a team has been permanently on the premises and an apartment has been placed at their disposal. I am about to make enquiries of the police officer on duty when the individual comes back from his walk and greets him as he passes.
- You know that man?
- Yes, he presented himself to the GNR on Friday morning and offered his services as an interpreter. He is of English origin but speaks good Portuguese. He's called Robert Murat.
As the law demands, all foreign people interviewed by the police must have the benefit of an interpreter. In this investigation, the considerable number of interviews we had to conduct in record time forced us to call on the services of volunteers.
- And this guy, you checked him out? No criminal record or trouble with the law?
- No, no, it's all OK, but I didn't know he lived here. It's true that his house is on the route taken by the abductor.
- Stay here, carry on being friendly with him; I'm going to Portimão to see what we've got on him: we've got to find out more about this guy.
I immediately telephone the team to alert them. The Director of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Faro has to be involved in a meeting the same morning, where we will discuss the case of Robert Murat. We decide to request the latter's help again in order not to lose sight of him. We must act with the utmost speed, because Madeleine could be in one of the houses he has access to.
** snip
His behaviour starts to seriously intrigue us. He often makes reference to similar cases that happened in the United Kingdom and which he seems to know in detail. He displays suspicious curiosity and seeks to know more. He offers to help us identify possible suspects. He knows the workings of the Ocean Club and the habits of the holiday-makers very well. He even, allegedly, tried secretly to access the investigation files. It is also known that he visits web sites of a pornographic nature.
Chapter 7 of the Truth of the Lie
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Some people placed him at the scene on the night. I meant the police found his behaviour suspicious in the following days - but then you know that anyway.
Is that the same way the police found the Mccanns behaviour suspicious ?
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The only thing I would say I found odd about Robert Murat, is that he said he and his mother heard sirens, yet they didn't go and look what was going on. The sirens must have been very loud as they were the police going to 5a not far from where they lived. I would definitely look out of the window to see what was going on, yet they didn't.
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Would they have been able to see from their windows?
Perhaps one of the forum's Miss Marples might be able to give an answer.
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Would they have been able to see from their windows?
Perhaps one of the forum's Miss Marples might be able to give an answer.
If it were you and you heard sirens arriving near your home, wouldn't you be curious to know what was going on?
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If it were you and you heard sirens arriving near your home, wouldn't you be curious to know what was going on?
In my case, living in a rural setting, it would depend how near. For example, something happening a quarter of a mile down the road would not over excite me.
How close is the Murat property from the scene of action ?
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Murat like the McCanns was an arguido. We are constantly told by sceptics thst the McCanns though no longer arguidos are still persons of interest, I'm asking these seceptics if the same applies to Murat?
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There was definitely an individual out on the streets of Praia da Luz who looked a lot like Murat and who was not David Payne.
**Snip
She remembers, although she is not absolutely certain, given the time already elapsed, that an individual of about 1,70m, short light brown hair, with thin framed and light brown glasses, wanted from the start to help finding the child Madeleine McCann.
She doesn't remember at what time she saw him.
She doesn't remember how he was dressed up.
She doesn't remember who was with him, whether he came walking or in some vehicle. That same individual, she was told later, is the son of Morat, his first name is ROBERT.
Robert speaks fluently English and Portuguese. He helped the GNR of Lagos and later the PJ, translating the testimony of some British persons.
She admits as possible that Paul and June of the bar "Duke of Holland" and Mr. Byron of the firm JNB (management of properties in PDL) should be able to confirm if Robert Murat was there when Madeleine disappeared, and eventually other details.
She states that she spoke for the first time with Robert on Saturday (05-05-2007) or Sunday (06-05-2007) or may be on Monday (07-05-2007), during the breaks between the interviews in which he participated as a translator.
She describes him as a very sympathetic and direct guy. RM was very communicative and extrovert during the conversations they had together. He didn't mention any personal subject.
She ratified and will sign...............................
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm
In my opinion there would have been nothing suspect at all about his presence there as he was a resident with every right to be wondering about the activity or even to participate in the searches for Madeleine. He is adamant that as he was not there it couldn't have been him; and that is that as far as I am concerned without definitive proof to the contrary.
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Amaral claimed that Jane Tanner officially pointed the finger at Murat from the back of a van - so where is this incident mentioned in the following report on the subject of suspicions leading to Murat's being made an arguido?
Still on the kidnapping side, Robert Murat, at a certain time of the investigations, became a suspect of the crime.
Let’s enumerate some facts that led to such a suspicion, and demonstrate some important aspects that must be taken into account by the investigation, that result from data within the files.
Reasons that led to the suspicion:
a) According to a British journalist, R. Murat started having suspicious attitudes close to those professionals of the British media. He didn’t want to be photographed and didn’t give any identification element apart from his nick name – “ROB” (pag. 308).
b) His residence was in the direction that, according to Jane, was taken by the unknown that was carrying a child (pag.46).
c) The attitudes taken by him and referred on pag 329.
d) Anonymous denounce that suggests that he was an individual that frequently viewed sites of “heavy sexual contents” (pag 461).
e) His behaviour while acting as a translator, showing an unusual interest, that surpassed the functions for which he was nominated, he showed curiosity about the diligences that had been realised and the ones that were to be performed (pag 960, passim).
f) Having been present on the night of the facts, according to the declarations of Rachel Mampilly (pag 1296); Fiona Payne (1323) and Russel (pag 1945).
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic32.html
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Amaral claimed that Jane Tanner officially pointed the finger at Murat from the back of a van - so where is this incident mentioned in the following report on the subject of suspicions leading to Murat's being made an arguido?
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic32.html
Jane conspicuously absent.
Murat's lawyer made himself look a complete twerp by suggesting Murat might sue her.
Even if Jane had suggested Murat might be the man (and all the evidence suggests she didn't!) statements made in the context of a police enquiry are absolutely protected.
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Is that the same way the police found the Mccanns behaviour suspicious ?
The McCanns had lost their daughter. What excuse did RM have?
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The only thing I would say I found odd about Robert Murat, is that he said he and his mother heard sirens, yet they didn't go and look what was going on. The sirens must have been very loud as they were the police going to 5a not far from where they lived. I would definitely look out of the window to see what was going on, yet they didn't.
Without knowing the position of the police cars at the times the sirens were going, it is difficult to be clear about what was heard that night.
We are sufficiently close to the N125 to hear police and ambulances using a siren to clear out a junction as they go through. But then they normally switch the siren off again.
If police/ambulances are trying to cut a path through Luz traffic, we can track them by sound.
But if they are not in traffic, like they weren't in our medical mishap last Sunday, there is nothing to alert us. A ginormous ambulance turned up at our home without any hint of sirens. The giveaway was it was bedecked with more flashing lights than a Xmas tree.
Personally, I don't pay any attention when I hear the sirens because I have got so used to them. Other family members go into checkup mode - "Is everything all right?"
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Would they have been able to see from their windows?
Perhaps one of the forum's Miss Marples might be able to give an answer.
I am doubtful that they would have been able to see much because the gates and fencing must be about 6 ft tall, there are numerous shrubs in between and they live in a bungalow IIRC. Robert Murat is quite a tall guy (about 6 ft at a guestimation) and he just might have seen some lights flashing thru gaps in the fences and shrubs.
They lived about 120 metres from 5A
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The McCanns had lost their daughter. What excuse did RM have?
How does losing a child make you act especially suspiciously
Suspicion is based on actions and statements that dont tally, no?
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Goncalo Amaral.
**Snip
I arrive in front of a house with a neglected garden. Inside, there are two parked cars, whose registration numbers I note down. I communicate the numbers to the police in Portimão and wait there for the result of the check. After a few minutes, a green vehicle, driven by an individual wearing glasses, stops in front of the entrance to the house. The driver goes in quickly. His face is familiar to me but I don't know who he is. I notice a child's seat inside the car. The man comes back out a little later, supporting an elderly lady whom he accompanies towards the area of the swimming pools and the Tapas restaurant. They cross a park where a few buildings have been erected. Madeleine's parents took this route to take their children to the play centre, near the main reception area of the hotel complex. Since the start of the investigation , a team has been permanently on the premises and an apartment has been placed at their disposal. I am about to make enquiries of the police officer on duty when the individual comes back from his walk and greets him as he passes.
- You know that man?
- Yes, he presented himself to the GNR on Friday morning and offered his services as an interpreter. He is of English origin but speaks good Portuguese. He's called Robert Murat.
As the law demands, all foreign people interviewed by the police must have the benefit of an interpreter. In this investigation, the considerable number of interviews we had to conduct in record time forced us to call on the services of volunteers.
- And this guy, you checked him out? No criminal record or trouble with the law?
- No, no, it's all OK, but I didn't know he lived here. It's true that his house is on the route taken by the abductor.
- Stay here, carry on being friendly with him; I'm going to Portimão to see what we've got on him: we've got to find out more about this guy.
I immediately telephone the team to alert them. The Director of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Faro has to be involved in a meeting the same morning, where we will discuss the case of Robert Murat. We decide to request the latter's help again in order not to lose sight of him. We must act with the utmost speed, because Madeleine could be in one of the houses he has access to.
** snip
His behaviour starts to seriously intrigue us. He often makes reference to similar cases that happened in the United Kingdom and which he seems to know in detail. He displays suspicious curiosity and seeks to know more. He offers to help us identify possible suspects. He knows the workings of the Ocean Club and the habits of the holiday-makers very well. He even, allegedly, tried secretly to access the investigation files. It is also known that he visits web sites of a pornographic nature.
Chapter 7 of the Truth of the Lie
So what?
Mr amaral was describing what went on at the time, covering all bases, no different to suspectng the last people to see the child, and?
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So what?
Mr amaral was describing what went on at the time, covering all bases, no different to suspectng the last people to see the child, and?
Absolutely, Mercury, he was actually doing his job particularly in relation to the direction taken by the man seen by Jane Tanner. Which is in reply to your original question about who it was who fingered Murat.
Goncalo Amaral takes the credit for so doing and a read at the files confirms the appropriateness of that suspicion and the subsequent investigation that followed.
In stark contrast to the reasoning behind his suspicions regarding Madeleine's parents.
The Policia Judiciaria found it impossible to discover what had become of Madeleine. Nor did they find evidence to enable them lay charges against those who had been declared suspects in Madeleine's disappearance.
When the case was archived in 2008 Robert Murat was cleared ...
There was nothing to link him to the disappearance, and he was cleared on 21 July 2008 when the case was archived.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann
Which was exactly the situation pertaining to Madeleine's parents ...
The McCanns were declared arguidos (suspects) in September 2007 but were cleared when Portugal's attorney-general archived the case in July 2008.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann
There must be more vitriol floating about on the internet regarding the people whose daughter was taken from them than that directed towards any group or individual human being either in bygone times or current.
Logically Robert Murat should be receiving at least a third of that opprobrium ... he doesn't appear to be.
Which makes it valid to ask if Robert Murat is still of interest.
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Without knowing the position of the police cars at the times the sirens were going, it is difficult to be clear about what was heard that night.
We are sufficiently close to the N125 to hear police and ambulances using a siren to clear out a junction as they go through. But then they normally switch the siren off again.
If police/ambulances are trying to cut a path through Luz traffic, we can track them by sound.
But if they are not in traffic, like they weren't in our medical mishap last Sunday, there is nothing to alert us. A ginormous ambulance turned up at our home without any hint of sirens. The giveaway was it was bedecked with more flashing lights than a Xmas tree.
Personally, I don't pay any attention when I hear the sirens because I have got so used to them. Other family members go into checkup mode - "Is everything all right?"
There is every possibility one of them went out to the road to have a look, it's human nature.
It was unfortunate for Robert Murat that his efforts at helping were sorely misinterpreted as something sinister. I bet there isn't a day that goes by when he doesn't wish he had kept his nib out.
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There is every possibility one of them went out to the road to have a look, it's human nature.
It was unfortunate for Robert Murat that his efforts at helping were sorely misinterpreted as something sinister. I bet there isn't a day that goes by when he doesn't wish he had kept his nib out.
i actually agree with that. There is enough information in the public domain (pre-Praia da Luz 2007) to suggest Murat is the sort of chap who, by nature and instinct, and from the best intentions, gets engaged and involved and tries to help.
I think it might have been willingness to help (on this occasion) that landed him in hot water.
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i actually agree with that. There is enough information in the public domain (pre-Praia da Luz 2007) to suggest Murat is the sort of chap who, by nature and instinct, and from the best intentions, gets engaged and involved and tries to help.
I think it might have been willingness to help (on this occasion) that landed him in hot water.
And being caught being nosey where documents were concerned which the PJ perceived as being an unhealthy interest.
Out of interest, was Murat paid for his interpreter work?
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I wonder why someone found it necessary to doctor RM & MW's phone records before they were uploaded onto the internet?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_COM/O_Apenso_2_com_Page_016.jpg
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_COM/O_Apenso_2_com_Page_026.jpg
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I wonder why someone found it necessary to doctor RM & MW's phone records before they were uploaded onto the internet?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_COM/O_Apenso_2_com_Page_016.jpg
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_COM/O_Apenso_2_com_Page_026.jpg
In what way?
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In what way?
What do you notice on the 2 pages I have linked to?
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Overlooking the very significance of the dates for a moment.........
The phone records were produced by a Portuguese phone provider for the Portuguese police. Every word, from the letters of request to the column headers, were written in Portuguese. So where did the use of the English word "UNKNOWN" originate from in the lists, rather than the Portuguese equivalent "desconhecido"?
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Absolutely, Mercury, he was actually doing his job particularly in relation to the direction taken by the man seen by Jane Tanner. Which is in reply to your original question about who it was who fingered Murat.
Goncalo Amaral takes the credit for so doing and a read at the files confirms the appropriateness of that suspicion and the subsequent investigation that followed.
In stark contrast to the reasoning behind his suspicions regarding Madeleine's parents.
The Policia Judiciaria found it impossible to discover what had become of Madeleine. Nor did they find evidence to enable them lay charges against those who had been declared suspects in Madeleine's disappearance.
When the case was archived in 2008 Robert Murat was cleared ...
There was nothing to link him to the disappearance, and he was cleared on 21 July 2008 when the case was archived.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann
Which was exactly the situation pertaining to Madeleine's parents ...
The McCanns were declared arguidos (suspects) in September 2007 but were cleared when Portugal's attorney-general archived the case in July 2008.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann
There must be more vitriol floating about on the internet regarding the people whose daughter was taken from them than that directed towards any group or individual human being either in bygone times or current.
Logically Robert Murat should be receiving at least a third of that opprobrium ... he doesn't appear to be.
Which makes it valid to ask if Robert Murat is still of interest.
He never used to be of interest to me, but then things changed. And now I am interested in him, but not as an abductor per se.
I cant say anymore ... and I am quite probably wrong anyhow.
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Overlooking the very significance of the dates for a moment.........
The phone records were produced by a Portuguese phone provider for the Portuguese police. Every word, from the letters of request to the column headers, were written in Portuguese. So where did the use of the English word "UNKNOWN" originate from in the lists, rather than the Portuguese equivalent "desconhecido"?
8@??)( How observant of you misty.
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Overlooking the very significance of the dates for a moment.........
The phone records were produced by a Portuguese phone provider for the Portuguese police. Every word, from the letters of request to the column headers, were written in Portuguese. So where did the use of the English word "UNKNOWN" originate from in the lists, rather than the Portuguese equivalent "desconhecido"?
I don't know how you do it sometimes, Misty, you have a knack for spotting 'discrepancies' in documents.
Just yesterday I came across information on holiday bookings etc on which Textusa has carried out an inordinate amount of work. She opined, and in my opinion proved, that the information contained therein was subject to extreme editing prior to them being submitted to the Policia Judiciaria.
Very complicated ... but clarified by the colour coding used to differentiate between the days to which the information referred.
I lost interest when the usual conspiracy theories took over from the logic ( so no cite, but easy enough to find for any who wish to Google it) ... but interesting nonetheless if as in this case, the information given to the PJ was being deliberately corrupted.
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I don't know how you do it sometimes, Misty, you have a knack for spotting 'discrepancies' in documents.
Just yesterday I came across information on holiday bookings etc on which Textusa has carried out an inordinate amount of work. She opined, and in my opinion proved, that the information contained therein was subject to extreme editing prior to them being submitted to the Policia Judiciaria.
Very complicated ... but clarified by the colour coding used to differentiate between the days to which the information referred.
I lost interest when the usual conspiracy theories took over from the logic ( so no cite, but easy enough to find for any who wish to Google it) ... but interesting nonetheless if as in this case, the information given to the PJ was being deliberately corrupted.
There are just some posters with a forensic eye for detail and an astounding ability to pull up any reference at a moment's notice.
Sal, over on StopTheMyths is another.
These people are, indeed, immensely valuable.
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Overlooking the very significance of the dates for a moment.........
The phone records were produced by a Portuguese phone provider for the Portuguese police. Every word, from the letters of request to the column headers, were written in Portuguese. So where did the use of the English word "UNKNOWN" originate from in the lists, rather than the Portuguese equivalent "desconhecido"?
Now that misty adds to my reasons to be interested in him ... and some other people along with him.
But then an interest because of anomalies/ coincidences does not, in themselves, amount to much ... or does it?
However, I have seven reasons for interest now. Each individually is quite small but collectively they are becoming quite impressive. Some might be interpreted differently by others. Dunno.
I ask myself, just how many coincidences/anomalies does it need before ones antennae rise?
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I don't know how you do it sometimes, Misty, you have a knack for spotting 'discrepancies' in documents.
Just yesterday I came across information on holiday bookings etc on which Textusa has carried out an inordinate amount of work. She opined, and in my opinion proved, that the information contained therein was subject to extreme editing prior to them being submitted to the Policia Judiciaria.
Very complicated ... but clarified by the colour coding used to differentiate between the days to which the information referred.
I lost interest when the usual conspiracy theories took over from the logic ( so no cite, but easy enough to find for any who wish to Google it) ... but interesting nonetheless if as in this case, the information given to the PJ was being deliberately corrupted.
I do!
Like she pays attention. QED
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Overlooking the very significance of the dates for a moment.........
The phone records were produced by a Portuguese phone provider for the Portuguese police. Every word, from the letters of request to the column headers, were written in Portuguese. So where did the use of the English word "UNKNOWN" originate from in the lists, rather than the Portuguese equivalent "desconhecido"?
How can yoube sure they were "doctored" just because an english word is used? Wouldnt you have to contact the phone company to ask where how and who by the records are produced?
Who do you imagne has "doctored" police files?
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How can yoube sure they were "doctored" just because an english word is used? Wouldnt you have to contact the phone company to ask where how and who by the records are produced?
Who do you imagne has "doctored" police files?
Well, it wasn't RM or MW who doctored their own records.
A little challenge for you, Merc. Spot any other English word (excluding Proper Nouns) in this link.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/OUSTROS_APENSOS_2_COM.htm
See you in 2 weeks.
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Well, it wasn't RM or MW who doctored their own records.
A little challenge for you, Merc. Spot any other English word (excluding Proper Nouns) in this link.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/OUSTROS_APENSOS_2_COM.htm
See you in 2 weeks.
No you asserted it was doctored so yu prove it
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I wonder why someone found it necessary to doctor RM & MW's phone records before they were uploaded onto the internet?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_COM/O_Apenso_2_com_Page_016.jpg
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_COM/O_Apenso_2_com_Page_026.jpg
An interesting observation misty. Could it be that some words were merely translated into English?
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An interesting observation misty. Could it be that some words were merely translated into English?
Why would a Portuguese phone company translate only one word from a phone record into English?
If you look at page 3, for example, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_COM/O_Apenso_2_com_Page_003.jpg,
there are 3 separate phone numbers listed in the left hand column so the data appears to have been transferred onto a spreadsheet. The right hand column is written in English under a Portuguese header & there is no logical reason for that.
I suggest that the documents in the PJ files are not exact replicas of the ones provided by the Portuguese phone companies but have been edited & reproduced by the UK experts who helped the PJ with the phone traffic analysis.
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Why would a Portuguese phone company translate only one word from a phone record into English?
If you look at page 3, for example, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_COM/O_Apenso_2_com_Page_003.jpg,
there are 3 separate phone numbers listed in the left hand column so the data appears to have been transferred onto a spreadsheet. The right hand column is written in English under a Portuguese header & there is no logical reason for that.
I suggest that the documents in the PJ files are not exact replicas of the ones provided by the Portuguese phone companies but have been edited & reproduced by the UK experts who helped the PJ with the phone traffic analysis.
I like that word ?{)(**
What skulduggery do you think they might have been up to in their editing ?
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I like that word ?{)(**
What skulduggery do you think they might have been up to in their editing ?
Giving an instruction in a covering memo, to the poor checker, that says "look only at the ones marked "unknown"
or conversely do not look at the ones marked "unknown"
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I like that word ?{)(**
What skulduggery do you think they might have been up to in their editing ?
I don't know. It's an inconsistency, aside from the very important matter of the dates on which those UNKNOWN calls are recorded. All those calls with listed numbers - what are the odds 2 different landlines receiving calls from an unknown source only around the time of Madeleine's disappearance? It may just be a huge co-incidence.
Imagine if it was a UK investigation & a few Portuguese words found their way into the telephone records - wouldn't questions be asked?
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Why would a Portuguese phone company translate only one word from a phone record into English?
If you look at page 3, for example, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_COM/O_Apenso_2_com_Page_003.jpg,
there are 3 separate phone numbers listed in the left hand column so the data appears to have been transferred onto a spreadsheet. The right hand column is written in English under a Portuguese header & there is no logical reason for that.
I suggest that the documents in the PJ files are not exact replicas of the ones provided by the Portuguese phone companies but have been edited & reproduced by the UK experts who helped the PJ with the phone traffic analysis.
Does it matter as long as the data is valid?
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Does it matter as long as the data is valid?
The redactions in GM's phone records were the subject of much discussion.
How do we know if the data is valid when much of it has been transferred onto a spreadsheet?
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The redactions in GM's phone records were the subject of much discussion.
How do we know if the data is valid when much of it has been transferred onto a spreadsheet?
That applies to just about everything in the files, we have to take everything at face value or ignore it completely.
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That applies to just about everything in the files, we have to take everything at face value or ignore it completely.
The author of TTOTL wrote his book based on the authenticity of the contents of the files so I don't think he'd want anything ignored. If you take things at face value, the phone records of RM & MW show unexplained inconsistencies.
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The author of TTOTL wrote his book based on the authenticity of the contents of the files so I don't think he'd want anything ignored. If you take things at face value, the phone records of RM & MW show unexplained inconsistencies.
Sy dont seem interested in the least