Is there any evidence which implicates Sheila?

[Holly Goodhead]

Neville's body bore the marks of a brutal beating ...  http://netk.net.au/UK/Bamber1.asp

• His nose was broken
• His eyes had been blackened
• Linear bruising to his cheeks - consistent with having been struck with a long blunt object.
• Lacerations to his head
• Bruising to the right forearm - consistent with having been struck with a long blunt object.
• His left wrist and forearm were bruised
• Three burn like marks on his back

Evidence that a sustained cowardly, hate filled attack was carried out on a dying or dead man already suffering excruciatingly from horrific gun shot wounds is well documented .

We have a complete breakdown of the injuries NB sustained from the pathologist (who has been a guest on Desert Island disc) who carried out the post mortems:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=205.0

[Holly Goodhead]

Neville's body bore the marks of a brutal beating ...  http://netk.net.au/UK/Bamber1.asp

• His nose was broken
• His eyes had been blackened
• Linear bruising to his cheeks - consistent with having been struck with a long blunt object.
• Lacerations to his head
• Bruising to the right forearm - consistent with having been struck with a long blunt object.
• His left wrist and forearm were bruised
• Three burn like marks on his back

Evidence that a sustained cowardly, hate filled attack was carried out on a dying or dead man already suffering excruciatingly from horrific gun shot wounds is well documented .

So I'm assuming based on what you've posted above you don't believe there was a violent struggle in the kitchen?

[Holly Goodhead]

Jeremy had probably already wiped the gun clean of his prints by then and so probably cleaned off the blood as well.

He didn't make a very good job then:

71. The rifle bore blood smearing on the barrel in the region of the fore-sight and around the mechanism and there were splashes of blood to the left side of the weapon. The appearance of the blood staining was consistent with it having been used to strike somebody who was already bleeding. On analysis the blood was found to be human blood but tests to determine grouping were unsuccessful. A "pull-through" on the barrel of the rifle was conducted for any traces of blood within the weapon. There were none.

[Vertigo Swirl]

He didn't make a very good job then:

71. The rifle bore blood smearing on the barrel in the region of the fore-sight and around the mechanism and there were splashes of blood to the left side of the weapon. The appearance of the blood staining was consistent with it having been used to strike somebody who was already bleeding. On analysis the blood was found to be human blood but tests to determine grouping were unsuccessful. A "pull-through" on the barrel of the rifle was conducted for any traces of blood within the weapon. There were none.

Then perhaps you can explain why none of that blood appeared on Sheila’s person either, seeing as you believe this was the weapon she handled and then used to shoot herself.

[Brietta]

We have a complete breakdown of the injuries NB sustained from the pathologist (who has been a guest on Desert Island disc) who carried out the post mortems:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=205.0

Thank you, I have already read that.

What do you think my post has omitted regarding the injuries inflicted on Nevill Bamber by his son?

[Brietta]

So I'm assuming based on what you've posted above you don't believe there was a violent struggle in the kitchen?

I thought everyone knew that the disarray in the kitchen indicated that a violent struggle had occurred in that place.

Nevill was shot four times in the upstairs bedroom but was able to make it as far as the kitchen, perhaps to get his own firearm to combat his assailant who he didn't have to recognise was his son.

I think though that the beating he received there was personal and vindictive because he was at risk of upsetting Jeremy's applecart by being able to get as far as the kitchen ... he was intended to die in bed.

Therefore I fail to see why you would suppose that posting ...
"Evidence that a sustained cowardly, hate filled attack was carried out on a dying or dead man already suffering excruciatingly from horrific gun shot wounds is well documented."  ... takes away from the violence of any one sided struggle in the kitchen because it was obviously hideous in its violence.

The outcome of any struggle was decided when the only shooter, Bamber pumped four dumdums into his father in the bedroom - caught him with another as he made his way downstairs - eventually finishing off the job in the kitchen.

I reckon Jeremy Bamber must rank near the top of the tree amongst murderers for evil cowardice ... whatever awareness his victims had of their final moments must have been unimaginable in its horror.

[Holly Goodhead]

Thank you, I have already read that.

What do you think my post has omitted regarding the injuries inflicted on Nevill Bamber by his son?

I don't know why anyone would want to refer to info from a third party when we have access to the pathologist's report who at the time was employed by the Home Office.  Information is bound to get lost in translation.  For example where's the evidence NB sustained a broken nose?

[Vertigo Swirl]

I don't know why anyone would want to refer to info from a third party when we have access to the pathologist's report who at the time was employed by the Home Office.  Information is bound to get lost in translation.  For example where's the evidence NB sustained a broken nose?

Just as a guess, but how about the injuries to his nose and his black eyes?

[Holly Goodhead]

I thought everyone knew that the disarray in the kitchen indicated that a violent struggle had occurred in that place.

Nevill was shot four times in the upstairs bedroom but was able to make it as far as the kitchen, perhaps to get his own firearm to combat his assailant who he didn't have to recognise was his son.

I think though that the beating he received there was personal and vindictive because he was at risk of upsetting Jeremy's applecart by being able to get as far as the kitchen ... he was intended to die in bed.

Therefore I fail to see why you would suppose that posting ...
"Evidence that a sustained cowardly, hate filled attack was carried out on a dying or dead man already suffering excruciatingly from horrific gun shot wounds is well documented."  ... takes away from the violence of any one sided struggle in the kitchen because it was obviously hideous in its violence.

The outcome of any struggle was decided when the only shooter, Bamber pumped four dumdums into his father in the bedroom - caught him with another as he made his way downstairs - eventually finishing off the job in the kitchen.

I reckon Jeremy Bamber must rank near the top of the tree amongst murderers for evil cowardice ... whatever awareness his victims had of their final moments must have been unimaginable in its horror.

If by disarray in the kitchen you mean a few pieces of broken crockery, spilled sugar, broken lampshade and overturned chairs how does this support a violent struggle as opposed to NB stumbling into them either as a result of the injuries he sustained upstairs and/or attempting to flee from the perp?

There's no evidence NB sustained his upstairs gsw's in the bedroom.

[Holly Goodhead]

Just as a guess, but how about the injuries to his nose and his black eyes?

The pathologist provides a complete breakdown of all injuries including those to his nose and there's no reference to a broken nose.

[Holly Goodhead]

Then perhaps you can explain why none of that blood appeared on Sheila’s person either, seeing as you believe this was the weapon she handled and then used to shoot herself.

 

It's a question I raised above.

How would any of us know if small stains on SC's nightdress and person originated from other victims? 

[G-Unit]

I thought everyone knew that the disarray in the kitchen indicated that a violent struggle had occurred in that place.

Nevill was shot four times in the upstairs bedroom but was able to make it as far as the kitchen, perhaps to get his own firearm to combat his assailant who he didn't have to recognise was his son.

I think though that the beating he received there was personal and vindictive because he was at risk of upsetting Jeremy's applecart by being able to get as far as the kitchen ... he was intended to die in bed.

Therefore I fail to see why you would suppose that posting ...
"Evidence that a sustained cowardly, hate filled attack was carried out on a dying or dead man already suffering excruciatingly from horrific gun shot wounds is well documented."  ... takes away from the violence of any one sided struggle in the kitchen because it was obviously hideous in its violence.

The outcome of any struggle was decided when the only shooter, Bamber pumped four dumdums into his father in the bedroom - caught him with another as he made his way downstairs - eventually finishing off the job in the kitchen.

I reckon Jeremy Bamber must rank near the top of the tree amongst murderers for evil cowardice ... whatever awareness his victims had of their final moments must have been unimaginable in its horror.

According to one witness the disarray in the kitchen was partly due to the entrance of the armed police who broke into the house. [w/s DI Cook 1991]

Are you sure the bullets were dum dums?

[Vertigo Swirl]

 

It's a question I raised above.

How would any of us know if small stains on SC's nightdress and person originated from other victims?

Hang on.  We can’t say NB had a broken nose  (despite the fact he had injuries to his nose and black eyes) because the pathologist didn’t mention it but it’s ok to say Sheila killed her entire family despite there being no evidence found of blood from any of her alleged victims on her person? 

[Holly Goodhead]

Hang on.  We can’t say NB had a broken nose  (despite the fact he had injuries to his nose and black eyes) because the pathologist didn’t mention it but it’s ok to say Sheila killed her entire family despite there being no evidence found of blood from any of her alleged victims on her person?

NB's nose, along with the rest of his anatomy, was subjected to a thorough post-mortem so of course the pathologist was able to conclude whether or not his nose was broken.

If SC's nightdress and person contained small blood stains what tests existed in 1985/6 to enable forensic scientists and others to determine the origins of such stains? 

[Brietta]

I don't know why anyone would want to refer to info from a third party when we have access to the pathologist's report who at the time was employed by the Home Office.  Information is bound to get lost in translation.  For example where's the evidence NB sustained a broken nose?

Thank you for your critical advice … but do please have the courtesy to allow me to choose for myself which cites I will refer to for discussion … many of which are already to be found posted on the forum where the consensus of the informed is that a struggle did indeed occur in the kitchen.

Snip
The struggle is important though.  Despite claims cops knocked over the chairs etc the mess was observed through the window before cops went in.  Nevill had gray hair and was slumped over the upside down chair and was mistaken by one cop as an old woman.  The broken stock and wounds on Nevill that matched the rifle also proved he was beaten.  His arms had defensive wounds from where the rifle stuck him as he raised his arms to protect himself and his head had some blows.  He did not run in the kitchen and collapse because of his the gunshots he was bludgeoned with the rifle until he passed out slumped over and then was finished off by the final shots. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3419.0