Gerry and Jez chat while Jane walks by. Seconds later she spots Tannerman!

[misty]

The waiter stated that 4 bottles had been opened but that they were not finished IIRC .  Also as they left in a mighty hurry, there would be part filled glasses on the table.

So not so much wine drunk before the 10pm it seems.


You do realise that the wines was free in as miuch as it was included in the holiday price?

On holidays with "free" wine very often you will see opened but almost untouched bottles of wine left on tables after the diners have left.  Many people abuse the "free" wine, but then it usually is YUK.   In a way I cant blame them.   We cant usually drink it


The only thing that we do know is that the Tapas group drank LESS than 4 bottles of wine between 9 of them over the two first courses.  It may have been considerably less; we just dont know. 
That is hardly getting drunk


The original poster who sparked this mini discussion is doing nothing more than SPECULATING
And as usual SPECULATING AGAINST The Mccanns.

I was making a point to GUnit, Sadie.
Kate & Gerry had consumed some wine before they went to the Tapas Bar at 8.30 pm - so probably at least 1 glass. Between 8.30 & 9.10 (when Gerry went to carry out his check), little or no food had been consumed but I would imagine that their glasses weren't empty for that 40 minute period. So, say 2 glasses - Gerry did put in his statement that he used the bathroom when he returned to 5a.

On a busier street with people coming and going perhaps, but this was quiet with no-one around. I would expect anyone to glance at the source of footsteps or movement in such a place. [ moderated ]

The effects of alcohol on the senses are widely documented. What would be expected of a person who was totally sober is not the same as that of someone who has consumed several units of alcohol. It is illogical to assume that Gerry should most definitely have heard or seen Jane passing.

[slartibartfast]

I was making a point to GUnit, Sadie.
Kate & Gerry had consumed some wine before they went to the Tapas Bar at 8.30 pm - so probably at least 1 glass. Between 8.30 & 9.10 (when Gerry went to carry out his check), little or no food had been consumed but I would imagine that their glasses weren't empty for that 40 minute period. So, say 2 glasses - Gerry did put in his statement that he used the bathroom when he returned to 5a.

The effects of alcohol on the senses are widely documented. What would be expected of a person who was totally sober is not the same as that of someone who has consumed several units of alcohol. It is illogical to assume that Gerry should most definitely have heard or seen Jane passing.

Problem is you then have to treat Gerry's recollection a little more circumspectly in all his statements.

[G-Unit]

I was making a point to GUnit, Sadie.
Kate & Gerry had consumed some wine before they went to the Tapas Bar at 8.30 pm - so probably at least 1 glass. Between 8.30 & 9.10 (when Gerry went to carry out his check), little or no food had been consumed but I would imagine that their glasses weren't empty for that 40 minute period. So, say 2 glasses - Gerry did put in his statement that he used the bathroom when he returned to 5a.

The effects of alcohol on the senses are widely documented. What would be expected of a person who was totally sober is not the same as that of someone who has consumed several units of alcohol. It is illogical to assume that Gerry should most definitely have heard or seen Jane passing.

Was Jeremy Wilkins drunk in charge of his buggy? He spotted Jane from quite a distance at 8.30pm, but missed her altogether at two paces.

[misty]

Problem is you then have to treat Gerry's recollection a little more circumspectly in all his statements.

I agree. You have to factor in the sense of shock also. Everything may have seemed almost surreal.

[Alice Purjorick]

What an interesting proposition. None of the statements were reliable because the deponents were either under the affluence of incohol or in a state of shock.

[pegasus]

Is that the same child who was fast asleep in the same position 30 minutes after they left her when Gerry said he was having his proud father moment? You think that child got up within 30 minutes and moved the door? That's quite amazing but I don't believe it for one second.

Person wakes up and opens door wider as they go into another room IMO. But back on topic to the chat location, where do you think it was, at alleyway, or at gate?

[Eleanor]

Person wakes up and opens door wider as they go into another room IMO. But back on topic to the chat location, where do you think it was, at alleyway, or at gate?

At the alleyway.  I always have done.

[pathfinder73]

No wine bottle on table but wine glasses full so not much drinking done by some if at all. More important things happening and somebody was very chatty at the table - not much drinking for some and all the comings and goings 



Matt comes back after his window check at 5A and Gerry leaves straight away to check so what time did anybody have to get inside and move the door?  Matt met the Paynes by 5A gate when he was going to fetch them before 9pm. Gerry says door had moved. How? So somebody moved the door between 8:30 when the McCanns left and 8:55 when the Paynes left their apartment. Not much of an opportunity for anybody that's for sure. So how could it be Madeleine who was asleep in the same position only 30 minutes after they left according to her father. So that rules her out 

[misty]

No wine bottle on table but wine glasses full so not much drinking done by some if at all. More important things happening and somebody was very chatty at the table - not much drinking for some and all the comings and goings 



Matt comes back after his window check at 5A and Gerry leaves straight away to check so what time did anybody have to get inside and move the door?  Matt met the Paynes by 5A gate when he was going to fetch them before 9pm. Gerry says door had moved. How? So somebody moved the door between 8:30 when the McCanns left and 8:55 when the Paynes left their apartment. Not much of an opportunity for anybody that's for sure. So how could it be Madeleine who was asleep in the same position only 30 minutes after they left according to her father. So that rules her out 

There's a clipboard on that table. one wine glass & one tumbler of water. So, not an actual replica crime scene photo.

[Anna]

Person wakes up and opens door wider as they go into another room IMO. But back on topic to the chat location, where do you think it was, at alleyway, or at gate?

About here I think, maybe nearer the alleyway.
Photo Thanks to John.

[misty]

About here I think, maybe nearer the alleyway.
Photo Thanks to John.

Is the pavement as bumpy as it looks, does anyone know?

[Anna]

Is the pavement as bumpy as it looks, does anyone know?

Sadie would probably know. I thought it was cobbles but on checking I don't think it is. Enlarge and you can see better

[misty]

Sadie would probably know. I thought it was cobbles but on checking I don't think it is. Enlarge and you can see better

Thanks, Anna. It doesn't really help enlarging it as the pic becomes more blurred. I was just thinking that if the pavement is bumpy then Jez would have been more likely to be pushing the buggy on the road surface rather than risk waking his child.

[Anna]

Thanks, Anna. It doesn't really help enlarging it as the pic becomes more blurred. I was just thinking that if the pavement is bumpy then Jez would have been more likely to be pushing the buggy on the road surface rather than risk waking his child.

That would make sense, but I think he would be on the road side of the pram to protect it.
He would probably have been pushing the pram to and fro, or rocking it and glancing in at the baby, while talking to Gerry. And if, he was doing, as normal folk would.... looking into Gerry face whilst talking to him, there is a possibility that in the dimming light he missed Jane and T/Man.
Who knows what squeaky noises the pram made being rocked or whatever.
 Who knows?

[pegasus]

About here I think, maybe nearer the alleyway.
Photo Thanks to John.

That's probably it. So no view of the window.