If the man Jane Tanner saw was the abductor, how long did he have ?

[Carana]

Carana, what has where the cot was, got to do with the recess behind the door?

Don't forget the cots were moved, between forensic photo's, being done. If the cot was that near the wardrobe, how did Kate get to the window?

My thought concerns the width of the door.

If it opened completely without knocking on the edge of the wardrobe. If it didn't (i.e. if it could be opened completely against the wall, then there would not have been much space in terms of a recess.

If the edge did catch against the corner of the wardrobe, then there may well have been more space and the fact of not being able to open it fully may not seemed strange.

[Mrs. B]

This has always been my argument.  Logistics.  Not possible for The McCanns to kill and hide the body of their daughter.  But possible for an abductor to have taken Madeleine.

Yes, and that's perhaps why the anti McCann skeptics are so unwilling to present a possible scenario as to HOW this "fake abduction" did occur? Though we have gleaned SOME clues here, i.e. some apparently think the following scenario makes sense: Madeleine fell from balcony into flowerbed, Kate found her, carried her up the stairs & chucked her unceremoniously behind the sofa.

[icabodcrane]

My thought concerns the width of the door.

If it opened completely without knocking on the edge of the wardrobe. If it didn't (i.e. if it could be opened completely against the wall, then there would not have been much space in terms of a recess.

If the edge did catch against the corner of the wardrobe, then there may well have been more space and the fact of not being able to open it fully may not seemed strange.

I was under the impression that the door opened the other way  ...  towards the wall against which Madeleine's bed rested   (  rather than towards the wardrobes, and window  )

Was I wrong  ? 

[AnneGuedes]

No need Anne, NPIA are more than aware of the short comings of the dogs, even Eddie gets a mention.

http://news.sky.com/story/844071/sniffer-dogs-can-hinder-police-work

Prof Harrison's opinion is different and I'm prone to trust him. These dogs are too sensitive : they were right in detecting smell of death in old furniture ! Nothing of that kind in the G5A though.
The fact they can't identify corpses since all humans smell the same is no news. Even the best device built to substitute dogs' nose will do no better.

[Carana]

I was under the impression that the door opened the other way  ...  towards the wall against which Madeleine's bed rested   (  rather than towards the wardrobes, and window  )

Was I wrong  ?

I'm not sure. I don't find the photo very clear. Was it taken off its hinges when the photo was taken?

[AnneGuedes]

I was under the impression that the door opened the other way  ...  towards the wall against which Madeleine's bed rested   (  rather than towards the wardrobes, and window  )

Was I wrong  ?

Yes you were !

[south of the river]

Perp watches Gerry from a distance enter and  leave the apartment at 9.00

As soon as Gerry leaves he enters via the patio door ( unlocked )    30 secs

Finds the bedroom and Maddies bed uses chloroform or some other agent to subdue a sleeping child  1 minute

Opens the shutters and signals to perp 2 who is across the road in shadows  say another 2 minutes

Picks up Maddy and hands her out to Perp 2 who then makes his way up the road  2 minutes

He then exits the way he came in through the patio and  catches up with perp 2 at a prearranged place

He could have been in and out in 5 minutes tops - no need to touch the twins who were sound asleep

This fits in exactly with the siting of Tanner who  caught a sight of Perp 2 walking away

[Carana]

Yes you were !

I'm not sure, Ica could be right.



There is what looks like a hinge on the left (but no upper hinge).

It looks to me as if it had been taken off its hinges - although why remains a mystery.

IFFF the door opened towards the left (towards the bed), then no one could have been hiding in a recess between the entry-side of the cupboard and the door.

IFF it opened towards the right, then... maybe, depending on whether the door opened fully or not.

[DCI]

I'm not sure. I don't find the photo very clear. Was it taken off its hinges when the photo was taken?

The door is behind the wardrobe door, pushed open.

[Mrs. B]

Prof Harrison's opinion is different and I'm prone to trust him. These dogs are too sensitive : they were right in detecting smell of death in old furniture ! Nothing of that kind in the G5A though.
The fact they can't identify corpses since all humans smell the same is no news. Even the best device built to substitute dogs' nose will do no better.

Really, where is the reports that confirm that no second hand furniture was in the apartment Anne, because as per normal, I cannot find any sign of PJ ever having checked where the furniture came from? After all, it's not unusual that you furnish rental apartments with 2nd hand furniture in holiday resorts.

Nor can I find any reports on PJ checking that any of the guests brought in 2nd hand items OR inherited items, e.g. perhaps a suitcase bought on ebay, any other item that may have been owned by other persons other than themselves in the past?

Most odd, isn't it, since we KNOW that the dogs alert to items "bought from dwellings where the owner had died".

[icabodcrane]

Please answer me this Icabod if you can - it has been established by the experts with all the facts, ie: Scotland Yard that there was a window of opportunity for an abductor to remove Madeleine McCann from the apartment - WHY IS THIS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?!!

No need to shout Martha !

As it happens, I agree  that there was a window of opportunity during which an  abduction may have occured ...    just not the one the McCanns inexplicably insist on

I think the 'real'  window of opportunity was much wider than the 3 minute timescale prefered by Kate and Gerry  ...  I think an abduction was possible at any time after Gerry last saw Madeleine  ( 9'15pm )  and the time Kate found her missing  ( 10.05pm ) 

It may be that Scotland Yard have the same broader window of opportunity in mind too. They have certainly never specified an abduction occured in the exact way the McCanns insist it did

[Mrs. B]

I'm not sure, Ica could be right.



There is what looks like a hinge on the left (but no upper hinge).

It looks to me as if it had been taken off its hinges - although why remains a mystery.

IFFF the door opened towards the left (towards the bed), then no one could have been hiding in a recess between the entry-side of the cupboard and the door.

IFF it opened towards the right, then... maybe, depending on whether the door opened fully or not.

That's doesn't look like a hinge, you HANG doors on hinges, that looks like the metal piece that enables the door to stay shut.

[icabodcrane]

I'm not sure, Ica could be right.



There is what looks like a hinge on the left (but no upper hinge).

It looks to me as if it had been taken off its hinges - although why remains a mystery.

IFFF the door opened towards the left (towards the bed), then no one could have been hiding in a recess between the entry-side of the cupboard and the door.

IFF it opened towards the right, then... maybe, depending on whether the door opened fully or not.

Yes I was wrong carana

I just checked in Kate's book, where there is a diagram of the apartment, showing the ways the doors opened

The bedroom door definately opened towards the wardrobe

( thanks for putting me straight )

[AnneGuedes]

Really, where is the reports that confirm that no second hand furniture was in the apartment Anne, because as per normal, I cannot find any sign of PJ ever having checked where the furniture came from? After all, it's not unusual that you furnish rental apartments with 2nd hand furniture in holiday resorts.

Nor can I find any reports on PJ checking that any of the guests brought in 2nd hand items OR inherited items, e.g. perhaps a suitcase bought on ebay, any other item that may have been owned by other persons other than themselves in the past?

Most odd, isn't it, since we KNOW that the dogs alert to items "bought from dwellings where the owner had died".

In the bedroom corner I see no furniture. No furniture also on the balcony. I agree the sofa is dubious.
Don't forget this is presumption, no certitude of course.

[DCI]

That's doesn't look like a hinge, you HANG doors on hinges, that looks like the metal piece that enables the door to stay shut.

Can't anyone see the door knob? Its half way up the side of the wardrobe.



Door catch on the left. Bottom right corner is a hinge