A CHILD BEING CARRIED.

[Benice]

The difference between one or the other side of the street is very significant, and you know that. If Mr McCann had crossed the street, the fact JW and him missed JT and the abductor wouldn't be unbelievable.
Pretending he crossed the street when he had no reason for that (JW had to cross since he was going back home and he stated he did), Mr McCann was given himself a double alibi (at the cost of JT's credit) : he wasn't the adductor and he had an excuse for missing him.

It is not at the cost of anyone's credibility - the police know from experience that people have vastly differing powers of recall - especially over stuff that doesn't seem important at the time.    It does not automatically denote anything sinister.

If Gerry was creating an alibi then surely the one thing he would have claimed was that he did SEE Jane Tanner.

The most important part of that meeting he had with JW is that Jez was able to confirm that Gerry behaved and chatted perfectly normally.     Anyone who thinks he could have done that just minutes after finding his daugher dead in the apartment is venturing into fantasy land IMO. 


 

[AnneGuedes]

It is not at the cost of anyone's credibility - the police know from experience that people have vastly differing powers of recall - especially over stuff that doesn't seem important at the time.    It does not automatically denote anything sinister.

If Gerry was creating an alibi then surely the one thing he would have claimed was that he did SEE Jane Tanner.

The most important part of that meeting he had with JW is that Jez was able to confirm that Gerry behaved and chatted perfectly normally.     Anyone who thinks he could have done that just minutes after finding his daugher dead in the apartment is venturing into fantasy land IMO.

Don't you see it would have been suspicious if Mr McCann had seen Mrs Tanner whereas the independent witness JW didn't ?
It is clear, watching the "McCann reconstruction", Mrs Tanner's sighting's accuracy is discredited by Mr McCann's categoric opinion.
Who said Mr McCann had just found his daughter dead ?

[Benice]

What are the striking similarities ?

The sightings were in different areas.

Why would someone advertise their presence, when in the words of John they were 'professional abductors' ?

Why not have a car nearby, minimizing the chances of being observed  ?

The similarities have been in the public domain for years.  I suggest if you don't know them by now - you acquaint yourself with them via the files.

The sightings were both in the little village of PdL - a few streets away from oneanother and both made shortly after an abduction.    Not hours, or days after  - but a mere 45 mins.

As you yourself have stated, a man walking along carrying a child would not be a reason for anyone to suspect he was anything other than a father carrying his sleeping daughter home.  It would only be after news of the abduction was known that people would begin to think differently.

She may have been taken to a car, or a boat or a building.      Who knows.

[Benice]

Don't you see it would have been suspicious if Mr McCann had seen Mrs Tanner whereas the independent witness JW didn't ?
It is clear, watching the "McCann reconstruction", Mrs Tanner's sighting's accuracy is discredited by Mr McCann's categoric opinion.
Who said Mr McCann had just found his daughter dead ?

I think if Gerry had talked Jane Tanner into lying to concoct an alibi for him, they would have got their stories straight beforehand.   (As you know I don't believe either he or JT lied about anything.)

I did hesitate before typing about Gerry finding his daughter dead, as I do lose track of who believes what conspiracy theory.   My apols if that is not one which you subscribe to.  Actually you have never said what you think happened - or if you have then I've missed it.   What do you think happened Anne?

[AnneGuedes]

I think if Gerry had talked Jane Tanner into lying to concoct an alibi for him, they would have got their stories straight beforehand.   (As you know I don't believe either he or JT lied about anything.)

I did hesitate before typing about Gerry finding his daughter dead, as I do lose track of who believes what conspiracy theory.   My apols if that is not one which you subscribe to.  Actually you have never said what you think happened - or if you have then I've missed it.   What do you think happened Anne?

Benice, I never suggested JT made a sighting to please Mr McCann : no conspiration for sure !
But I think Mr McCann lied about the side of the street when he had the chat with JW (I believe JW, not only because he's an independent witness, but mainly because he had a motive to cross the street).
And I've a feeling Mrs Tanner saw a man with a child on his arms, but not where and when she says she did.
I've said many times what I thought didn't happen and could have happened. It would be presumptuous to go further than that.

[Benice]

Benice, I never suggested JT made a sighting to please Mr McCann : no conspiration for sure !
But I think Mr McCann lied about the side of the street when he had the chat with JW (I believe JW, not only because he's an independent witness, but mainly because he had a motive to cross the street).
And I've a feeling Mrs Tanner saw a man with a child on his arms, but not where and when she says she did.
I've said many times what I thought didn't happen and could have happened. It would be presumptuous to go further than that.

I don't see what difference it would make what side of the street Gerry was standing.   If he wanted to lie then all he had to say was that he must have had his back to the road when the man crossed  - or even be looking in a different direction when that happened - i.e. looking at Jez while he was talking to him -  or at his baby in the buggy.   (IMO one of those scenarios IS actually what happened)
     
Both perfectly acceptable reasons considering there was only a very few seconds during which the man was in sight anyway.

Why would Jane Tanner lie about where she saw the man with a child?  In fact why would she lie about anything?

[AnneGuedes]

I don't see what difference it would make what side of the street Gerry was standing. 

If the distance between Mrs Tanner and him, whether 1m or 6m, was irrelevant, then why did Mr McCann insist against two witnesses ?

[Benice]

If the distance between Mrs Tanner and him, whether 1m or 6m, was irrelevant, then why did Mr McCann insist against two witnesses ?

Because he was giving his honest recollection of what happened.    As did the other two.

[AnneGuedes]

But Mrs Tanner sobbed.

[Mrs. B]

So what? Is sobbing a sign of lying now?

[Benice]

But Mrs Tanner sobbed.

If you are talking about the video then IMO that had nothing to do with anything Gerry said.  Jayne was re-living probably the most terrible time of her life to date - when she watched Madeleine being abducted by a stranger - and because she didn't realise what was happening, she walked on by.   No wonder she was sobbing.   That horrible memory will stay with her forever.    I have nothing but intense sympathy for the poor girl.

[AnneGuedes]

Is sobbing a sign of lying now?

Linking sobbing to lying is your idea, not mine !

[Redblossom]

Because he was giving his honest recollection of what happened.    As did the other two.

I suppose then he wasnt part of this

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

Page 886
Portimao Criminal Investigation Department
201/07.OGALGS
O INSPECTOR
M.P.
ATTACHED
On this date, I attached to these official papers 3 computer printed pages, relating to the description of the events, that have been collectively prepared by the nine people of the group in question, that was delivered to this Police Officer by the British Liaison Official, before the start of re-questioning of those same people.
Portimao, 10 May 2007 
INSPECTOR
M.P.
========================================
[3 page attachment] Pages 887-890 
 Original written in English.  
Sequence of Events: Thursday 3rd May 2007 - 2030 to 2200 
As recalled by: 

Gerry McCann - 5A 
Kate McCann - 5A 
David Payne - 5H (First floor) 
Fiona Payne - 5H (First floor) 
Dianne Webster - 5H (First floor) 
Jane Tanner - 5D 
Russell O'Brien - 5D 
Matthew Oldfield - 5B 
Rachael Oldfield - 5B 




2115: JT leaves table, and sees GM talking with fellow resident ("Jez" Wilkins) outside the patio gate of 5A. The two were standing just up the hill from the gate towards Rua A. da Silva Road. She did not speak to GM as she passed. 

[AnneGuedes]

If you are talking about the video then IMO that had nothing to do with anything Gerry said.  Jayne was re-living probably the most terrible time of her life to date - when she watched Madeleine being abducted by a stranger - and because she didn't realise what was happening, she walked on by.   No wonder she was sobbing.   That horrible memory will stay with her forever.    I have nothing but intense sympathy for the poor girl.

I hope you have the same intense sympathy for Mr McCann who didn't realise what was happening when he found the door "more opened than he had left it".
Mrs Tanner's sobbing didn't surprise me at all when I watched that "reconstruction", though my interpretation is different from yours.

[John]

John - I think it would be a good idea to have a Post of the Day thread!

I would nominate both your post above and Benice's for that thread.
 

It is wonderful what comes out of the ether at times. It truely is a remarkable coincidence that two guys on their own carrying near identical looking children of the same sex and clothed the same and in such close proximity within 40 minutes of each other should both choose to remain anonymous.

Does anyone else find this compelling evidence?

I will put it to the members to see if we want a post of the day.