Author Topic: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?  (Read 34500 times)

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Lyall

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Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #90 on: September 27, 2013, 01:38:35 PM »
You are one of the people on here who could be very correctly called a [ censored word ].  What a hateful person you are, Luz. 
-  Tearing down the posters of a missing stolen child,
-  Throwing paint all over the contact details so that anyone who knows anything cannot pass the info on.
-  trying to prevent a stolen child from being recovered
-  bragging about it on the internet ... and elsewhere, no doubt
-  Intimating that the mention of her suicide is a strategy.  Have you ever been suicidal?  Do you know what it does to you?  Intimating that kate is a liar.
-  Making assertions that kate is not beautiful, when she clearly is


Kate is a very beautiful woman, as is her Mother and her daughter.  If she says she was suicidal then she was.  Kate is a totally honest woman.   The most honest person I have ever encountered.  And the suicidal part is confirmed by her ?Psychologist in Court.

Get over yourself Luz.  A few heartfelt apologies would be in order from you.

Didn't Mr Wright just tell the court it's not a daily pressure for the couple?

Calm down Sadie.

Offline Carana

Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #91 on: September 27, 2013, 01:57:13 PM »
Kate's beautiful face???? Give me a break!

It didn't take many of my acquaintances and I to read the book to disbelieve that pair. I didn't believe them from the first press statement they made, 4th May 2007.

And if she wanted to kill herself, why didn't she?! Invoking suicidal thoughts is a very cheap strategy.

What an extraordinary post...

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #92 on: September 27, 2013, 02:27:06 PM »
Sorry, I must disagree with you here, Sherlock.  I fear suicide might still be on the books

One only has to look at what Gawd-awful people have done to Kates beautiful face to see the extreme pain etched on it.   There is only so much pain that any one person can carry.  Kate is very strong, but there might well come a time when the final straw causes her to give in.

Obviously that book and all the subsequent Amaral pontifications will have been detrimental to the search.  The search for a living child would have far greater fire and spirit than one for a dead child.  Also if people believe her dead at her parents hands, and they start to hate them, then they will lose interest in doing anything to help them.


And this, of course, is without considering the impact that Amarals book might have had on the PJ and Judicary.  Fortunately most would know that he is a perjurer and liar as proven by the Courts.

I don't have a medical opinion on Kate's mental state, and it would have been nice if the psychologist testifying in court had been able to present one. If Kate was suffering from severe depression or was suicidal, there would be documented medical evidence of the fact, as we discussed here last week. For reasons best known to Kate herself, no such evidence was presented.

As for the search, again, why decide not to present to the court actual evidence that it was hindered by Amaral? At the time in question, the 'search' was being carried out by private detectives hired by the McCanns  - and they didn't buy Amaral's theory. They were  being paid to search for a live child - and boasted she was findable. The fact that they didn't manage to do so was because they were variously crooked and / or incompetent - not because they were influenced by Amaral. If specific aspects of their searches were believed to have been impeded by Amaral's opinions, the detectives, and the McCanns, would have rushed to have made this known.

The other aspect of the 'search' from the early days was obviously the publicity campaign driven by the McCanns. This very British aspect of investigating - appealing to the public for help and information - sometimes does give results, but in Madeleine's case, where her identifiability would preclude her from being permitted into the public domain, this route is unlikely to bear fruit - nothing to do with Amaral either. Yes, it is possible that certain people who would otherwise have been alert to Madeleine's presence were not interested in helping the investigation because they believed what Amaral was saying, but once again, how is this proven? How do you show that an unknown, imaginary witness did not come forward, and prove the reason why?

SY, for their part, have said that they do not buy Amaral's theory either - after having gone over all the evidence on this case that so far exists. They are clearly going down a completely different track, unless the statements they have made so far have been nothing but bluff. And if they have been hitting brick walls in their investigation owing to Amaral, wouldn't they have been good witnesses to the Amaral effect?

Finally Sadie, you mention Amaral's convictions and his reputation, in the light of which, why assume that everyone reading his book or hearing about his thesis gives credence to his opinions? Are we all brainwashed into thinking Madeleine must be dead because one person said so? While it is true that Amaral's professional status gave his work a bit more oomph, that surely is more than counterbalanced by his convictions.

People are at liberty to evaluate his book as they wish,  just like any other book they read.  Those who respect Amaral may or may not agree with the claims he makes. People who do not give him any professional credit will probably discard them. Why assume - and how would you prove - a blanket negative effect?

Having said all of that, there would appear to be a certain amount of common sense, on the face of it , to the McCann's fears that his work was influential. Just very hard to prove. And where certain things are provable - such as medical evidence of emotional damage, or specific ways in which the search was hindered - the McCanns are choosing to leave them out.


ferryman

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Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #93 on: September 27, 2013, 02:37:14 PM »
I don't have a medical opinion on Kate's mental state, and it would have been nice if the psychologist testifying in court had been able to present one. If Kate was suffering from severe depression or was suicidal, there would be documented medical evidence of the fact, as we discussed here last week. For reasons best known to Kate herself, no such evidence was presented.

As for the search, again, why decide not to present to the court actual evidence that it was hindered by Amaral? At the time in question, the 'search' was being carried out by private detectives hired by the McCanns  - and they didn't buy Amaral's theory. They were  being paid to search for a live child - and boasted she was findable. The fact that they didn't manage to do so was because they were variously crooked and / or incompetent - not because they were influenced by Amaral. If specific aspects of their searches were believed to have been impeded by Amaral's opinions, the detectives, and the McCanns, would have rushed to have made this known.

The other aspect of the 'search' from the early days was obviously the publicity campaign driven by the McCanns. This very British aspect of investigating - appealing to the public for help and information - sometimes does give results, but in Madeleine's case, where her identifiability would preclude her from being permitted into the public domain, this route is unlikely to bear fruit - nothing to do with Amaral either. Yes, it is possible that certain people who would otherwise have been alert to Madeleine's presence were not interested in helping the investigation because they believed what Amaral was saying, but once again, how is this proven? How do you show that an unknown, imaginary witness did not come forward, and prove the reason why?

SY, for their part, have said that they do not buy Amaral's theory either - after having gone over all the evidence on this case that so far exists. They are clearly going down a completely different track, unless the statements they have made so far have been nothing but bluff. And if they have been hitting brick walls in their investigation owing to Amaral, wouldn't they have been good witnesses to the Amaral effect?

Finally Sadie, you mention Amaral's convictions and his reputation, in the light of which, why assume that everyone reading his book or hearing about his thesis gives credence to his opinions? Are we all brainwashed into thinking Madeleine must be dead because one person said so? While it is true that Amaral's professional status gave his work a bit more oomph, that surely is more than counterbalanced by his convictions.

People are at liberty to evaluate his book as they wish,  just like any other book they read.  Those who respect Amaral may or may not agree with the claims he makes. People who do not give him any professional credit will probably discard them. Why assume - and how would you prove - a blanket negative effect?

Having said all of that, there would appear to be a certain amount of common sense, on the face of it , to the McCann's fears that his work was influential. Just very hard to prove. And where certain things are provable - such as medical evidence of emotional damage, or specific ways in which the search was hindered - the McCanns are choosing to leave them out.

I don't know how many copies of his book Amaral has sold.

But the number is high, and whatever the number, would you not agree that a very high proportion will have been convinced, at the very least, that Madeleine is dead?

A number surely increased by the interviews Amaral has given which (I understand) also form a part of the libel trial?

AnneGuedes

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Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #94 on: September 27, 2013, 02:46:50 PM »
Why is everyone so adamant that the McCanns had to wait for an online translation of Amaral's book?  It could have been bought in Portugal, in Portuguese, the first day it was on sale and translated specifically for them by a professional translation service.

No need to wait for amateurs on the internet.
That's what Mr Pike seemed to suggest (otherwise he would have got it on Internet, there was no need to send him). But not Mr Wright.
Without a recording device, it is impossible to transcript everything verbatim. The Judge or the lawyers, when they dictate their requests to the court clerk, speak slowly and make pauses. Sometimes I can write down all the words (and use then direct speech), otherwise I use reported speech.
But I wouldn't have transformed "extracts or digest of a book" into "book" !

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #95 on: September 27, 2013, 03:02:58 PM »
I don't know how many copies of his book Amaral has sold.

But the number is high, and whatever the number, would you not agree that a very high proportion will have been convinced, at the very least, that Madeleine is dead?

A number surely increased by the interviews Amaral has given which (I understand) also form a part of the libel trial?

Quite possibly many people will have been influenced by his views. And he is free to present them.

The question is, how specifically would those views affect the search?  And how do you prove the search was affected? And why is little or no actual evidence of these effects being presented in court now that the McCanns have their moment?


AnneGuedes

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Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #96 on: September 27, 2013, 03:09:55 PM »
I don't have a medical opinion on Kate's mental state, and it would have been nice if the psychologist testifying in court had been able to present one. If Kate was suffering from severe depression or was suicidal, there would be documented medical evidence of the fact, as we discussed here last week. For reasons best known to Kate herself, no such evidence was presented.

As for the search, again, why decide not to present to the court actual evidence that it was hindered by Amaral? At the time in question, the 'search' was being carried out by private detectives hired by the McCanns  - and they didn't buy Amaral's theory. They were  being paid to search for a live child - and boasted she was findable. The fact that they didn't manage to do so was because they were variously crooked and / or incompetent - not because they were influenced by Amaral. If specific aspects of their searches were believed to have been impeded by Amaral's opinions, the detectives, and the McCanns, would have rushed to have made this known.

The other aspect of the 'search' from the early days was obviously the publicity campaign driven by the McCanns. This very British aspect of investigating - appealing to the public for help and information - sometimes does give results, but in Madeleine's case, where her identifiability would preclude her from being permitted into the public domain, this route is unlikely to bear fruit - nothing to do with Amaral either. Yes, it is possible that certain people who would otherwise have been alert to Madeleine's presence were not interested in helping the investigation because they believed what Amaral was saying, but once again, how is this proven? How do you show that an unknown, imaginary witness did not come forward, and prove the reason why?

SY, for their part, have said that they do not buy Amaral's theory either - after having gone over all the evidence on this case that so far exists. They are clearly going down a completely different track, unless the statements they have made so far have been nothing but bluff. And if they have been hitting brick walls in their investigation owing to Amaral, wouldn't they have been good witnesses to the Amaral effect?

Finally Sadie, you mention Amaral's convictions and his reputation, in the light of which, why assume that everyone reading his book or hearing about his thesis gives credence to his opinions? Are we all brainwashed into thinking Madeleine must be dead because one person said so? While it is true that Amaral's professional status gave his work a bit more oomph, that surely is more than counterbalanced by his convictions.

People are at liberty to evaluate his book as they wish,  just like any other book they read.  Those who respect Amaral may or may not agree with the claims he makes. People who do not give him any professional credit will probably discard them. Why assume - and how would you prove - a blanket negative effect?

Having said all of that, there would appear to be a certain amount of common sense, on the face of it , to the McCann's fears that his work was influential. Just very hard to prove. And where certain things are provable - such as medical evidence of emotional damage, or specific ways in which the search was hindered - the McCanns are choosing to leave them out.
Mr Pike had to admit he's not a psychologist after trying to suggest he was. He's even less a psychiatrist. Only a court authorized expert could have delivered a document on psychiatric issue. Imo what Mr Pike told is counterproductive, moreover because he suggested Mrs McCann shared only with him (how does he know that ?). One could wonder whether he's not manipulated.
It wasn't very bright from Mr Wright to say that Mrs McCann was very different in Portugal from what she is in the UK. I had taken her scary face at face value..
About the rest, I do agree with SH.


AnneGuedes

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Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #97 on: September 27, 2013, 03:22:25 PM »
That still doesn't have to mean that he was referring to one of translated versions we know of on the internet.
As there was no translated version of GA's book on the Internet at the time, neither in Inuit nor in Chinese nor in Wolof, the only explanation is that Mr Wright made a confusion between a book and a digest. The interesting question is : did he read more than a digest ? And did the McCanns as well ?

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #98 on: September 27, 2013, 03:31:34 PM »
Mr Pike had to admit he's not a psychologist after trying to suggest he was. He's even less a psychiatrist. Only a court authorized expert could have delivered a document on psychiatric issue. Imo what Mr Pike told is counterproductive, moreover because he suggested Mrs McCann shared only with him (how does he know that ?). One could wonder whether he's not manipulated.
It wasn't very bright from Mr Wright to say that Mrs McCann was very different in Portugal from what she is in the UK. I had taken her scary face at face value..
About the rest, I do agree with SH.

Yes, I think parts of  Pike's testimony were ill-considered.

What wonderful names, too:  Pike ('fishy') and Trickey ('tricky'). Dickens himself couldn't have made it up.

AnneGuedes

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Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #99 on: September 27, 2013, 03:41:03 PM »

What wonderful names, too:  Pike ('fishy') and Trickey ('tricky'). Dickens himself couldn't have made it up.
Oh thank you for that, I didn't realize that a pike is a fresh water fish, he must have suffered in Lisbon !

Offline DCI

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Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #100 on: September 27, 2013, 04:05:25 PM »
I had taken her scary face at face value..
About the rest, I do agree with SH.

Do you need to be so insulting Anne?
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Offline sadie

Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #101 on: September 27, 2013, 05:54:28 PM »
Mr Pike had to admit he's not a psychologist after trying to suggest he was. He's even less a psychiatrist. Only a court authorized expert could have delivered a document on psychiatric issue. Imo what Mr Pike told is counterproductive, moreover because he suggested Mrs McCann shared only with him (how does he know that ?). One could wonder whether he's not manipulated.
It wasn't very bright from Mr Wright to say that Mrs McCann was very different in Portugal from what she is in the UK. I had taken her scary face at face value..
About the rest, I do agree with SH.


For Sherlock from Annes Court reports:

Quote
Alan Robert Pike is currently a Clinical Partner & Trauma Consultant at The Centre for Crisis Psychology (CCP), a private Company which provides psychological care for traumatised individuals. He is a Crisis Counsellor and holds an honours degree in Social Science.
 

Quote
SO – You said psychology was one of the elements comprising your degree, does this allow you to give evaluation of psychological situations?
AP says "yes". The Social Science degree he has permits it.

He is sounding pretty competent to me, Sherlock and Anne.   He has made it plain that he is NOT a straight psychologist and I have heard no mention of his claiming to be a psychiatrist.
However he has competences from elements of his social Services degree which permit his evaluation of psychological situations.
Cant see much wrong with that.

Quote
SO – So what occurred between 2007 and 2011?
AP says he saw the family regularly in their home or in his office up to 2009. Thereafter only when they contacted him.
SO – For support or psychological evaluation?
AP – Support.
The judge (Maria Emília de Melo e Castro) is now asking
MC – For how long have you been in this line of work?
AP – I started in 1993. I have been working for the institution for 7 years.
MC – In which situations have you worked?
AP – Families with domestic violence, maltreatment, children taken from their families (this is a bit like grieving), families who have lost a child. He works for the UK organisation called "Missing People".
MC – Which strong negative feeling did Kate McCann report to you in the summer of 2009?
AP – She was afraid, she wished she wasn't there; she talked of killing herself as an option.

What a hard nosed lot you are.  Have none of you been in deep distress?  Have none of you had contact with someone who is suicidal?



 

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #102 on: September 27, 2013, 07:28:04 PM »

For Sherlock from Annes Court reports:
 

He is sounding pretty competent to me, Sherlock and Anne.   He has made it plain that he is NOT a straight psychologist and I have heard no mention of his claiming to be a psychiatrist.
However he has competences from elements of his social Services degree which permit his evaluation of psychological situations.
Cant see much wrong with that.

What a hard nosed lot you are.  Have none of you been in deep distress?  Have none of you had contact with someone who is suicidal?

Not hard-nosed, Sadie, just looking for evidence - evidence that would help the McCanns!

Mr Pike gave absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back up his statements. Not a sausage. He does seem to be professionally experienced, but there are no prizes in court for turning up and waving a resume.

As for the court-authorised expert who could have presented evidence about psychiatric issues - why was no such person called?

Offline gilet

Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #103 on: September 27, 2013, 09:50:11 PM »
Kate's beautiful face???? Give me a break!

It didn't take many of my acquaintances and I to read the book to disbelieve that pair. I didn't believe them from the first press statement they made, 4th May 2007.

And if she wanted to kill herself, why didn't she?! Invoking suicidal thoughts is a very cheap strategy.

What an absolutely disgusting post!

How badly that post reflects on the personality?

Offline DCI

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Re: So when was the first translation of the Amaral book available?
« Reply #104 on: September 27, 2013, 10:25:11 PM »
CONCLUSION – 09-09-2009

When said book was published, the first Defendant gave interviews to all of the media that requested him to, namely to RTP [9], and defended the thesis that he presents in the book, in those interviews;

The first Defendant also gave, among others, an interview to newspaper "Correio da Manha", which was published on the 24th of July of 2008, in which he defended the thesis that he presents in the book;

At the beginning ot May of 2009, the same book was published in France, now under the title "Maddie, L'Enquete interdite: Les revelations du commissaire portugais charge de l'enquete";

The first Defendant gave countless interviews to several media in France, including the one that was published in the newspaper "Le Parisien" and on the matching internet site;

In those interviews, the first Defendant again mentioned the theses that he presents in the book;

The book's French edition is systematically and profusely published on the internet, at least on:

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/goncalo-amaral-maddie-lenquete.html

hhtp://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/archive/2009/05/09/Maddie-1-enquete-interdite-en-belgique1.html

http://www.the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=31806&sid=abe61a1c34b42a74ad5a2e50f315c20d&start=0

hhtp://twitturly.com/url/a194ef0f54f1985133b2ff092ddcf75d

http://www.bourin.editeur.fr/livre/maddie-1-enquete-interdite-les-revelations-du-commissaire-portugais-charge-de-1-enquete.html

http://www.amazon.fr/Maddie-lenq%C3%AAte-interdite-Amaral-G/dp/2849411256

http://www.decitre.fr/livres/Maddie-l-enquete-enterdite.aspx/9782849411254;
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