The dogs.....

[Benice]

I think you have demonstrated again the need to let the experts deploy the dogs.

Why? One doesn't need to be an expert to read and understand Martin Grime's statements.

May I ask:-

Do you believe Martin Grime's claim that his dogs could detect residual scents  - not only ancient but so miniscule  they couldn't be identified by forensic examination?

Do you believe it is credible that 9 cars and 4 holiday apartments have never had even a miniscule amount of blood deposited in any of them during years and years of usage by humans?

[sadie]

However Grime didn't get the same response in the other apts as he did when Eddie entered 5a to which his quote was.....

"by experience and the training of the dog what I first noticed is that as soon as I came in that the dog was very excited and as a handler I can pick up his body language etc and it would appear to me that as soon as he has come into the house he's picked up a scent that he recognises and he has then gone through the apartment trying to source where that scent source has come from"

Yep, no wonder.

Eddie alerts to blood as well as cadavar and other bodily fluids.  This Eddie check was done after several famillies had stayed in 5A since The Mccanns had left. 

As we all know
1) one male visitor cut his face badly whilst shaving and he walked around the flat for some time trying to stench the flow of blood
2) the daughterr of another family that stayed there hurt herself badly.  She was bleeding and had to be taken for medical treatment


Blood.

As I said Eddie alerts to blood, caverine and bodily fluids.  No wonder he alerted there.

[Silkywhiskers]

On it goes... 8-)(--)


Here's the rub.

Apparently SY are believing the dogs too.

Where else did the "not alive" statement come from?

[Benice]

However Grime didn't get the same response in the other apts as he did when Eddie entered 5a to which his quote was.....

"by experience and the training of the dog what I first noticed is that as soon as I came in that the dog was very excited and as a handler I can pick up his body language etc and it would appear to me that as soon as he has come into the house he's picked up a scent that he recognises and he has then gone through the apartment trying to source where that scent source has come from"

As mentioned before - it still took Eddie 20 minutes to alert in 5A.     How do we know he would not have alerted after 20 minutes spent in other apartments? 

Eddie's level of initial excitement at the gym or the garage wasn't such that it warranted a special  mention from Grime  - but he still alerted at both places.

[sadie]

As mentioned before - it still took Eddie 20 minutes to alert in 5A.     How do we know he would not have alerted after 20 minutes spent in other apartments? 

Eddie's level of initial excitement at the gym or the garage wasn't such that it warranted a special  mention from Grime  - but he still alerted at both places.

[/b][/size]

Exactly Benice

[sadie]

Bumped

Quote from: Benice on Today at 09:24:27 PM
As mentioned before - it still took Eddie 20 minutes to alert in 5A.     How do we know he would not have alerted after 20 minutes spent in other apartments? 

Eddie's level of initial excitement at the gym or the garage wasn't such that it warranted a special  mention from Grime  - but he still alerted at both places.

[Benice]

Yep, no wonder.

Eddie alerts to blood as well as cadavar and other bodily fluids.  This Eddie check was done after several famillies had stayed in 5A since The Mccanns had left. 

As we all know
1) one male visitor cut his face badly whilst shaving and he walked around the flat for some time trying to stench the flow of blood
2) the daughterr of another family that stayed there hurt herself badly.  She was bleeding and had to be taken for medical treatment


Blood.

As I said Eddie alerts to blood, caverine and bodily fluids.  No wonder he alerted there.

Also IIRC correctly Sadie - I understand one of the previous holidaymakers was a Surgical Assistant.

The incidents you describe are what I think are normal occurrences which happen from time to time in holiday apartments.    We are being asked to believe that nothing like that had ever happened in the other apartments  and not a spot of blood had ever been spilt there for years on end - because if it had Eddie would have found it.      I just don't buy that.

It's vastly more credible that if Eddie had been given 20 mins to search the other apartments - he would have alerted.     As it was he was given 3-5 mins only.

[Carew]

Why? One doesn't need to be an expert to read and understand Martin Grime's statements.

May I ask:-

Do you believe Martin Grime's claim that his dogs could detect residual scents  - not only ancient but so miniscule  they couldn't be identified by forensic examination?

Do you believe it is credible that 9 cars and 4 holiday apartments have never had even a miniscule amount of blood deposited in any of them during years and years of usage by humans?

Benice, I feel that it is a patronising misconception to use Mr Grime`s words selectively to imply that it is a matter of "common sense" to deduce that given enough time the EVRD will alert eventually...... anywhere............ anyway.

Immediately on entering 5A the EVRD indicated to his handler that he had picked up a scent  he recognised.

After that the work involves pinpointing the source and using the vestiges dog to locate actual physical samples if possible.



Maybe you should locate backup cites from professionals similarly involved in deploying EVR dogs who have agreed with your "common sense" observations regarding Mr Grime`s work with the dogs.

Their input would be more value to you than mine........I believe that Mr Grime used his knowledge and expertise in his deployment of the dogs.

Having performed the work in full public view, it could be called a "matter of common sense" that he would do precisely that.

[Carew]

As mentioned before - it still took Eddie 20 minutes to alert in 5A.     How do we know he would not have alerted after 20 minutes spent in other apartments? 

Eddie's level of initial excitement at the gym or the garage wasn't such that it warranted a special  mention from Grime  - but he still alerted at both places.

Yes, it was......

 "The EVRD was then tasked to search the area. When passing a
 vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
 the dog's behaviour changed substantially. This then produced an alert
 indication at the lower part of the drivers door where the dog was biting and
 barking. I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from
 the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door......."

[pathfinder73]

As mentioned before - it still took Eddie 20 minutes to alert in 5A.     How do we know he would not have alerted after 20 minutes spent in other apartments? 

Eddie's level of initial excitement at the gym or the garage wasn't such that it warranted a special  mention from Grime  - but he still alerted at both places.

Get your FACTS right and stop spreading myths.

08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2054-55

Eddie entered 5A at 20:16 and alerted in the wardrobe corner at 20:20, 4 minutes later he found the  base of the scent cone.

[Benice]

Get your FACTS right and stop spreading myths.

08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2054-55

Eddie entered 5A at 20:16 and alerted in the wardrobe corner at 20:20, 4 minutes later he found the  base of the scent cone.

I don't do myths - the information came from posts on this thread.  Below is one of them.   I have no reason to believe Estuarine does myths either.



Estuarine
Sr. Member
 Posts: 501
An Old Reactionary

 Re: The dogs.....

« Reply #150 on: March 22, 2014, 04:23:41 PM »

Quote

5A (Gerry/Kate McCann):
 
From 20h00 to 21h20, the dogs go through.

20h20: The cadaver dog, "marks," the couple's wardrobe area in the bedroom.
 
20h22: The cadaver dog, "marks" an area behind the sofa in the sitting room near the window overlooking the road.
 
From 20h47 to 21h20, the blood detecting dog goes through.
 
21h10 The dog, "marks" an area of floor behind the sofa in the sitting room, near the window overlooking the road.
.........

[Silkywhiskers]

I don't do myths - the information came from posts on this thread.  Below is one of them.   I have no reason to believe Estuarine does myths either.



Estuarine
Sr. Member
 Posts: 501
An Old Reactionary

 Re: The dogs.....

« Reply #150 on: March 22, 2014, 04:23:41 PM »

Quote

5A (Gerry/Kate McCann):
 
From 20h00 to 21h20, the dogs go through.

20h20: The cadaver dog, "marks," the couple's wardrobe area in the bedroom.
 
20h22: The cadaver dog, "marks" an area behind the sofa in the sitting room near the window overlooking the road.
 
From 20h47 to 21h20, the blood detecting dog goes through.
 
21h10 The dog, "marks" an area of floor behind the sofa in the sitting room, near the window overlooking the road.
.........

Hahhahah so you're basing your argument on what another poster said?

Typical.

[Benice]

Yes, it was......

 "The EVRD was then tasked to search the area. When passing a
 vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
 the dog's behaviour changed substantially. This then produced an alert
 indication at the lower part of the drivers door where the dog was biting and
 barking. I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from
 the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door......."

I disagree.  It was Grime's behaviour which changed substantially imo.    That fact is shown clearly on the video.     Eddie just kept running off -  right down to the far end of the car park on at least one occasion.  The most time spent on any other car was 30 seconds, in fact Eddie was not even required to do a full circuit of car No. 2 before Grime allowed him to move on.

On the other hand, Grime spent a full 2 minutes repeatedly calling Eddie back to the Renault and indicating to Eddie by tapping on it with his hands.      If that wasn't a substantial change of behaviour compared to the other cars  -  I don't know what is.

Once again -  had Grime behaved the same with the other cars - would there have been an alert?  Or are we to believe the interior of all those 9 cars were devoid of any odours which his dogs could detect. 

With the best will in the world I cannot believe that Grime had no idea the Renault belonged to the McCanns.   A child of 10 could have worked that out.

[pathfinder73]

I don't do myths - the information came from posts on this thread.  Below is one of them.   I have no reason to believe Estuarine does myths either.



Estuarine
Sr. Member
 Posts: 501
An Old Reactionary

 Re: The dogs.....

« Reply #150 on: March 22, 2014, 04:23:41 PM »

Quote

5A (Gerry/Kate McCann):
 
From 20h00 to 21h20, the dogs go through.

20h20: The cadaver dog, "marks," the couple's wardrobe area in the bedroom.
 
20h22: The cadaver dog, "marks" an area behind the sofa in the sitting room near the window overlooking the road.
 
From 20h47 to 21h20, the blood detecting dog goes through.
 
21h10 The dog, "marks" an area of floor behind the sofa in the sitting room, near the window overlooking the road.
.........

That's even worse. Not doing your own work so you keep on lying repeatedly to everyone in this thread that it took Eddie 20 minutes to alert and accusing him of being crap. That is a blatant lie so stop propagating errors! Here's the link for you:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DOGS_INSPECTION.htm#2054

[Benice]

That's even worse. Not doing your own work so you keep on lying repeatedly to everyone in this thread that it took Eddie 20 minutes to alert and accusing him of being crap. That is a blatant lie so stop propagating errors! Here's the link for you:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DOGS_INSPECTION.htm#2054

If the information is wrong I will happily retract it.   But first of all I would like the folk who posted the original information to give some clarification.    I had no reason to doubt the veracity of the info - and as far as I know it was not challenged at the time.