Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.

[lordpookles]

Yep these particular dogs were supposed to be the best at the time if I'm not mistaken. Why did the family try to discredit the dogs? Instinctual self-defence? Or reluctance to give up hope for Madeleine? Afterall, cadaver odour is transferable and from some reports I've read 10 minutes is long enough for the odour to permeate the area where the body lay. Putting aside our own particular biases and the parents wotdunnit theory for now. Could SY have been digging in the area, because they believe she may have died in the apartment and perhaps the burglar scenario or some theory in that spectrum makes some sense here?

[pathfinder73]

Yep these particular dogs were supposed to be the best at the time if I'm not mistaken. Why did the family try to discredit the dogs? Instinctual self-defence? Afterall, cadaver odour is transferable and from some reports I've read 10 minutes is long enough for the odour to permeate the area where the body lay. Putting aside our own particular biases and the parents wotdunnit theory for now. Could SY have been digging in the area, because they believe she may have died in the apartment and perhaps the burglar scenario or some theory in that spectrum makes some sense here?

It's very unusual to try and discredit them. They knew the possibility that she was dead so why they attacked the evidence pointing to that theory is bewildering. Surely you would want to know more instead of attacking them? But turning to the Zapata case turned out to be a bad move  *&*%£

[jassi]

To my mind they were not going to allow the reaction of the dogs to imply that Madeleine was dead, and thereby cause the flow of money to dry up.

[pathfinder73]

To my mind they were not going to allow the reaction of the dogs to imply that Madeleine was dead, and thereby cause the flow of money to dry up.

Need money to get to the wider agenda?

[Anna]

Yep these particular dogs were supposed to be the best at the time if I'm not mistaken. Why did the family try to discredit the dogs? Instinctual self-defence? Or reluctance to give up hope for Madeleine? Afterall, cadaver odour is transferable and from some reports I've read 10 minutes is long enough for the odour to permeate the area where the body lay. Putting aside our own particular biases and the parents wotdunnit theory for now. Could SY have been digging in the area, because they believe she may have died in the apartment and perhaps the burglar scenario or some theory in that spectrum makes some sense here?

The family needed to get assurance and advice on the evidential reliability of the dogs.
After all, it seems that it was on the dogs uncorroborated evidence that they were made arquido.
They knew that they had nothing to do with her disappearance and answers were needed.
They must have been very frightened, in a strange country with alien laws and language.

I believe SC were doing, what had to be done to prove or eliminate, by searching for a link to Maddie's disappearance, which could be in the form of her belongings or something of a more sinister nature.

Although nothing has been found as yet, does not mean that it doesn't exist, unless of course she was transported away from the area by the culprit.

The dogs alerts could have been for various reasons, but because they did alert, there will always be people who believe that a body had to have been present and also believe that it had to be Maddie's.

I am sure when you have had a good read around the forum, you will come to your own beliefs eventually.

[Eleanor]

The implications surrounding the dogs was that they had somehow killed Madeleine.  So If they knew that they hadn't done any such thing, then of course they would know that the dog findings were unreliable.

[Alfred R Jones]

To my mind they were not going to allow the reaction of the dogs to imply that Madeleine was dead, and thereby cause the flow of money to dry up.

Is it really your view that the McCanns are so despicably money-grabbing that money is more important to them than finding out what happened to their daughter?

[faithlilly]

To my mind they were not going to allow the reaction of the dogs to imply that Madeleine was dead, and thereby cause the flow of money to dry up.

Cadaver odour takes around one and a half to two hours to develop. The McCanns left the apartment at 8.30-8.45. Madeleine disappeared before 10pm. The maths really isn't difficult.

If the dogs are correct Madeleine must have been dead before her parents left the apartment and it is for that fact alone that the dogs credibility has to be undermined.

[misty]

Cadaver odour takes around one and a half to two hours to develop. The McCanns left the apartment at 8.30-8.45. Madeleine disappeared before 10pm. The maths really isn't difficult.

If the dogs are correct Madeleine must have been dead before her parents left the apartment and it is for that fact alone that the dogs credibility has to be undermined.

 It would have been very interesting to see the results of the same examinations  carried out by US-trained dogs rather than a UK dog trained on pig cadaver.

[lordpookles]

The family needed to get assurance and advice on the evidential reliability of the dogs.
After all, it seems that it was on the dogs uncorroborated evidence that they were made arquido.
They knew that they had nothing to do with her disappearance and answers were needed.
They must have been very frightened, in a strange country with alien laws and language.

I believe SC were doing, what had to be done to prove or eliminate, by searching for a link to Maddie's disappearance, which could be in the form of her belongings or something of a more sinister nature.

Although nothing has been found as yet, does not mean that it doesn't exist, unless of course she was transported away from the area by the culprit.

The dogs alerts could have been for various reasons, but because they did alert, there will always be people who believe that a body had to have been present and also believe that it had to be Maddie's.

I am sure when you have had a good read around the forum, you will come to your own beliefs eventually.

Honestly I doubt I will ever have a solid belief on the available information. I do have a bias for sure(in as much if I was asked to lay a bet I know what I would bet on with a big deal of uncertainty) which I try not to show because I'm more interested in many cases in playing devils advocate as testing other people's views can be quite illuminating. Also, if I start dogmatically spouting off my own theories here I just feel I will become involuntarily fixed in my views, also it feels wrong plus I'm trying to be somewhat sensitive. Anyway, for instance you make good points regarding the reaction to the dogs but what would be their reaction if they had killed Madeleine?

I've read a lot of what is said on the forum and there is obviously reams of it but the main points I feel I have researched enough given my interest. The dogs will always be a big factor as there is so little information available - we have a few sightings of suspicious characters around the area but other then that she just seems to have vanished. A big factor for me and the McCanns did it theory is the incongruous nature of the logistics concerning that night and the car hired 2 weeks later. Although anything is possible. There is a world in which the McCanns are guilty and a world in which they are innocent. Which one is more likely??

Maybe you are correct regarding the SY digging. The need to eliminate certain theories or indeed just to dig in probable areas given likely theories in tandem with their distrust of the Portuguese search perhaps. Personally I think it likely it was due to the dog alerts and maybe a theory of an abductor on foot... Why else would you discard belongings or a body in that area if you had a car? Also given the significance attached to the Smith sighting easy to imagine they could be connected...

[faithlilly]

It would have been very interesting to see the results of the same examinations  carried out by US-trained dogs rather than a UK dog trained on pig cadaver.

Eddie was trained in the US as well as the UK.

[misty]

Eddie was trained in the US as well as the UK.

The US dogs are not trained on pig cadaver. Eddie was trained on both. How did he distinguish between the two?
The PJ were aware of exactly how almost all UK dogs were trained prior to them arriving in August.

[faithlilly]

The US dogs are not trained on pig cadaver. Eddie was trained on both. How did he distinguish between the two?
The PJ were aware of exactly how almost all UK dogs were trained prior to them arriving in August.

Sorry misty I'm really not seeing your point.

[Anna]

Honestly I doubt I will ever have a solid belief on the available information. I do have a bias for sure(in as much if I was asked to lay a bet I know what I would bet on with a big deal of uncertainty) which I try not to show because I'm more interested in many cases in playing devils advocate as testing other people's views can be quite illuminating. Also, if I start dogmatically spouting off my own theories here I just feel I will become involuntarily fixed in my views, also it feels wrong plus I'm trying to be somewhat sensitive. Anyway, for instance you make good points regarding the reaction to the dogs but what would be their reaction if they had killed Madeleine?

I've read a lot of what is said on the forum and there is obviously reams of it but the main points I feel I have researched enough given my interest. The dogs will always be a big factor as there is so little information available - we have a few sightings of suspicious characters around the area but other then that she just seems to have vanished. A big factor for me and the McCanns did it theory is the incongruous nature of the logistics concerning that night and the car hired 2 weeks later. Although anything is possible. There is a world in which the McCanns are guilty and a world in which they are innocent. Which one is more likely??

Maybe you are correct regarding the SY digging. The need to eliminate certain theories or indeed just to dig in probable areas given likely theories in tandem with their distrust of the Portuguese search perhaps. Personally I think it likely it was due to the dog alerts and maybe a theory of an abductor on foot... Why else would you discard belongings or a body in that area if you had a car? Also given the significance attached to the Smith sighting easy to imagine they could be connected...

Thank you, for your honest answer, LP.
 I respect your right of opinion and hope that you will come to the conclusion, that suits the evidence and your beliefs.
 I look forward to your posts, when you have come to a final decision.
In the meantime your questions are more than welcome and we will answer to the best of our knowledge

[misty]

Sorry misty I'm really not seeing your point.

The point I am trying to make is that only dogs trained solely on human remains should have been deployed, which would have made the results far more difficult to counter.
Keela, you remember, was also an "experiment", not trained in the standard manner.