Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.

[G-Unit]

So what peer review papers do we have fir the alerts... Stockham said he was setting up a scientific programme... Did he ever do it

Rex was a founding member of the Scientific Working Group on Dog and Orthogonal detector Guidelines (SWGDOG), served on the Executive Board and co-chaired the Scent Dogs Subcommittee. More recently, Rex was a member of the Dogs and Sensors subcommittee of Organization of Scientific Area Committees for Forensic Science (OSAC).
https://swgdog.fiu.edu/membership/in-memory-of-rex-stockham/

[Mr Gray]

Rex was a founding member of the Scientific Working Group on Dog and Orthogonal detector Guidelines (SWGDOG), served on the Executive Board and co-chaired the Scent Dogs Subcommittee. More recently, Rex was a member of the Dogs and Sensors subcommittee of Organization of Scientific Area Committees for Forensic Science (OSAC).
https://swgdog.fiu.edu/membership/in-memory-of-rex-stockham/

I'm a member of several scientific groups... What research has been done to validate the alerts... I think it's none
The type of evidence you have presented may well have impressed the judge

Do you have an answer to the two points I raised

[G-Unit]

I dont have a cite... I dont think Grime was passing by by chance so he must have been approached...its the prosecutions case so who approached him

This is a clear example of why cites are necessary and why requesting them isn't nit picking. Stating guesses and opinions as if they are facts is misleading. 

You don't know why Grime worked on the Lane case, but chose to pretend you did. If you really want to know I suggest you conduct some research and find the answer.

[The General]

I have some ideas.....later. Theres one where the dog involved failed miserably...Ill have to see if I can find it..
work now....Im self employed too...

Maybe ask Randi to formulate a test.

[Mr Gray]

Maybe ask Randi to formulate a test.

I think that would be a very good idea

[Mr Gray]

This is a clear example of why cites are necessary and why requesting them isn't nit picking. Stating guesses and opinions as if they are facts is misleading. 

You don't know why Grime worked on the Lane case, but chose to pretend you did. If you really want to know I suggest you conduct some research and find the answer.

I think it's a realistic assumption to make...who else would have approached him... Having said that I support your request fir a cite

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Hi and welcome to the forum Billy Whizz Fan Club

I'm new to this case but have a layperson's understanding of LCN DNA through looking at another case.  You seem pretty knowledgeable, so a couple of questions if I may:

1. The biological samples collected in this case were as a result of the dog alerts?

2. As I understand it LCN is used to amplify small samples of DNA where the source material is unknown ie skin cells, sweat, blood etc?

3. In this case has the biological source been identified or is the assumption blood based on the dog alert? 

4. Given we are all shedding bits and pieces all the time ie skin cells, hair etc if the case involves a stranger abduction from 5A would he/she have left behind some DNA evidence? 

5. If the answer to 3 above is yes this would clearly present problems as he/she would not be the only person depositing DNA in 5A.  Potentially all those who have ever entered 5A would leave a trail of DNA although with time this would degrade to such an extent it would be beyond testing?  Anyhow for it to be useful to investigators it would require a match ie a sample from a suspect or a database?

6. Why do some soc's not yield any DNA eg Dr Lyn and Megan Russell while other similar soc's do eg The Ripper (scarf of a victim)?

Any links to 'DNA for Dummies' or similar would be appreciated.  Thanks

1. No. Not all of them. If you read through the PJ Filex there were a number of other samples tested aside from the human cellular material collected from areas where the blood and cadaver dogs alerted.
2. Mostly (but not exclusively) the FSS describe the samples as human cellular material. They report that they could not confirm the type of cells though.
3. There are many samples . Some are identified but many are not.. We know that Keela is trained to alert only to human blood. The alert is not evidence. The alert proves nothing but it led the forensic team to areas where samples of blood may be found. It is entirely possible that the forensic team missed the blood that Keela alerted to and instead by chance collected other human cellular material.
4. Yes of course though unless they were bleeding or dead this DNA wouldn’t have led to a dog alert.
5. I suspect you are referring to question 4 (not 3). And yes the forensic team would have to get lucky. The DNA would have to match someone already on a database.
6. I have no idea.

Sorry I don’t have any links but there must be loads out there. 

[G-Unit]

I'm a member of several scientific groups... What research has been done to validate the alerts... I think it's none
The type of evidence you have presented may well have impressed the judge

Do you have an answer to the two points I raised

What's the relevance of your membership of'scientific groups'? 

Morse's training, assessment and operational records validate his findings, just like Eddie's did.

What rwo points?

 

[Mr Gray]

What's the relevance of your membership of'scientific groups'? 

Morse's training, assessment and operational records validate his findings, just like Eddie's did.

What rwo points?

Belonging to a, scientific group does not signify carrying out research..

So what research did stockham carry out... Where was it published.... Did he, start his scientific programme


You may feel eddies alerts are validated but the points you raise do not show scientific validation

[G-Unit]

I think it's a realistic assumption to make...who else would have approached him... Having said that I support your request fir a cite

That's your opinion, not mine. In my opinion prosecutors decide which evidence to use, not who collects it.

What makes you think anyone 'approached' Grime?

[pathfinder73]

Was Morse the real deal and Eddie the experimental prototype?

I personally cannot wait until Eddie's records are released. The Parker and Harron cases show his superb abilities so I bet you're dying to see his FBI body farm records  Eddie not Morse found Bob Rose body on the sand dunes. Eddie became the enhanced dog because he trained and continued to train in association with the FBI on pure human cadaver scent.

"FBI consultant Martin Grime told the High Court in Glasgow he and his springer spaniels Eddie, Keela and Morse were called in by police in the hunt for Bob Rose, who disappeared on the island of Sanday last June.

Eddie, who is trained to detect dead bodies and was used in the McCann case and the Soham murders inquiry, reacted when he was taken to sand dunes at Sty Wick on June 24.

Mr Grime said: "His normal reaction is to bark. On this occasion he started to dig."

The body of "Black Bob" Rose was later found at the spot."
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sniffer-dog-used-in-search-for-madeleine-1050817

[G-Unit]

Belonging to a, scientific group does not signify carrying out research..

So what research did stockham carry out... Where was it published.... Did he, start his scientific programme


You may feel eddies alerts are validated but the points you raise do not show scientific validation

I expect the FBI had the necessary experts in reseach if Stockham needed help.

Aren't blind tests used in medical research? Like some people getting placebo's and ithers getting the medicine? If those getting the medicine benefit isn't it then seen as OK to prescribe? In other words it's doing what it's supposed to do, just as the dogs are when they alert correctly.

[Mr Gray]

I expect the FBI had the necessary experts in reseach if Stockham needed help.

Aren't blind tests used in medical research? Like some people getting placebo's and ithers getting the medicine? If those getting the medicine benefit isn't it then seen as OK to prescribe? In other words it's doing what it's supposed to do, just as the dogs are when they alert correctly.

It isn't quite as, simple, as that... I'll post my views later.
The first point is that any studies are open to scrutiny

[Mr Gray]

That's your opinion, not mine. In my opinion prosecutors decide which evidence to use, not who collects it.

What makes you think anyone 'approached' Grime?

So who hires the expert witnesses ..
If Grime wasn't approached... How did he get the job

[Vertigo Swirl]

I expect the FBI had the necessary experts in reseach if Stockham needed help.

Aren't blind tests used in medical research? Like some people getting placebo's and ithers getting the medicine? If those getting the medicine benefit isn't it then seen as OK to prescribe? In other words it's doing what it's supposed to do, just as the dogs are when they alert correctly.

Wasn't Stockham a close friend and colleague of Grime's?