Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 3158273 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10665 on: August 13, 2021, 08:02:18 PM »
I'm not saying it did. I'm sure there are other scenarios where urgent medical attention is vital.

Like what

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10666 on: August 15, 2021, 02:42:46 PM »
Like what

Head injury and/or unconsciousness leading to compromise or loss of airway.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10667 on: August 15, 2021, 03:40:34 PM »
Head injury and/or unconsciousness leading to compromise or loss of airway.

Swallowing medicines.

"For a baby or young child – err on the side of caution. Children can deteriorate quickly."
https://firstaidforlife.org.uk/999when-to-call-for-an-ambulance-and-when-not-to/

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Result = happy posting.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10668 on: August 15, 2021, 05:57:06 PM »
Head injury and/or unconsciousness leading to compromise or loss of airway.

Can you give me one example of this happening  and resulting in a death. Every death from a domestic head injury Ive heard of involves death later in hospital
« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 06:24:18 PM by Davel »

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10669 on: August 15, 2021, 06:18:53 PM »
Swallowing medicines.

"For a baby or young child – err on the side of caution. Children can deteriorate quickly."
https://firstaidforlife.org.uk/999when-to-call-for-an-ambulance-and-when-not-to/
What medicine do you think Madeleine could have swallowed that was in the apartment that would have killed her in 30 minutes or so?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10670 on: August 15, 2021, 07:30:22 PM »
Can you give me one example of this happening  and resulting in a death. Every death from a domestic head injury Ive heard of involves death later in hospital

Suppose you have a situation when a child does not have adult supervision, they fall and become unconscious. In some cases the child (or adult) has either a compromised airway or an airway without patency. Blood oxygen saturation levels drop scarily quickly in children. Very quickly cyanosis. is evident. Simple head tilt chin lift manoeuvres will often resolve the situation (depending on the exact cause - airway obstruction or apnoea). If there's no adult supervision to perform basic life support and the child remains hypoxic then death would occur in around five minutes.

You're correct that most brain injuries that cause apnoea are witnessed in hospital because it takes time for the trauma to cause apnoea (depending on the nature of the injury). But if a victims airway is compromised or totally obstructed then unless they receive immediate life support then they will arrest and die very quickly (particularly children). Someone posted the example of the young lass in Asda who asphyxiated on a coat zip toggle.

Falls are the most common cause of domestic trauma. I see about three a week where the patient needs intubating in A&E because of lack of airway patency due to head trauma (and it's not a big city hospital).

Here's a medical website on the most common cause of upper airway obstruction:

https://blog.sscor.com/what-are-the-most-common-causes-of-upper-airway-obstruction

Airway obstructions are common and may even be underreported. The prevalence and type of airway obstruction varies with age. Children younger than 4, for example, are more vulnerable to choking-related upper airway obstructions, and adults commonly experience airway obstruction caused by complications from smoking. First responders will inevitably encounter a wide variety of airway obstructions and must be prepared to promptly respond to each with appropriate medical care. Here are the most common causes of upper airway obstruction.

Tongue-Related Airway Obstruction

A relaxed tongue is the most common cause of upper airway obstruction in patients who are unconscious or who have suffered spinal cord or other neurological injuries. The tongue may relax into the airway, causing an obstruction. In some cases, other injuries complicate this phenomenon. For example, a patient who is unconscious following a blow to the head may also have suffered upper airway trauma, causing both the tongue and the trauma to block the airway.

Foreign Body/Choking

The most common cause of airway obstruction in children is a foreign body lodged in the airway. Choking can fully or completely obstruct the airway. Small toys, round foods such as berries and grapes, rocks, pebbles, and other enticing objects are common culprits. Eighty-eight percent of airway obstruction deaths occur in children younger than 4, highlighting the need for vigilance about children’s access to small objects and breakable toys.

Trauma

Traumatic injuries can directly obstruct the airway, such as when a gunshot or knife wound collapses portions of the airway. Trauma can also cause continuous bleeding or vomiting that obstructs the airway, making airway management difficult and increasing the risk of aspiration pneumonia. In the latter scenario, continuous suction via the SALAD technique can clear the airway and lower mortality risk.

Traumatic brain and spinal cord injuries may also lead to upper airway obstruction. If a patient cannot clear their own airway, they may require suctioning. In some cases, brain and spinal cord injuries inhibit the brain’s ability to control breathing, coughing, and other important respiratory functions.

« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 07:33:02 PM by Billy Whizz Fan Club »

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10671 on: August 15, 2021, 07:31:41 PM »
Can you give me one example of this happening  and resulting in a death. Every death from a domestic head injury Ive heard of involves death later in hospital

What if your upper airway is totally obstructed and no-one is there to take you to hospital?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10672 on: August 15, 2021, 07:57:10 PM »
What if your upper airway is totally obstructed and no-one is there to take you to hospital?

Ive asked you many times......Ive asked the whole forum many times....can you give me an example ofa child dying in such a way after a fall in a house.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10673 on: August 15, 2021, 08:07:25 PM »
Ive asked you many times......Ive asked the whole forum many times....can you give me an example ofa child dying in such a way after a fall in a house.

Do you accept that falling is the most common cause of domestic accident?

Do you accept that falling sometimes causes unconsciousness?

Do you accept that the airway is often compromised in an unconscious patient?

Do you accept that the first thing to assess in an unconscious patient is their airway?

There are thousands of injuries which involve children falling from furniture.


Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10674 on: August 15, 2021, 08:17:10 PM »
Do you accept that falling is the most common cause of domestic accident?

Do you accept that falling sometimes causes unconsciousness?

Do you accept that the airway is often compromised in an unconscious patient?

Do you accept that the first thing to assess in an unconscious patient is their airway?

There are thousands of injuries which involve children falling from furniture.
and despite there being thousands of examples, not one fall causing instant or near instant death?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10675 on: August 15, 2021, 08:32:40 PM »
and despite there being thousands of examples, not one fall causing instant or near instant death?

Says who?

Here’s some UK statistics on falls in the home including deaths:

https://www.middlesbrough.gov.uk/sites/default/files/first%20foremost%20falls%20factsheet.pdf



Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10676 on: August 15, 2021, 08:37:45 PM »
Falls in the home and garden accounted for nearly half of all home injuries.
Each year an estimated 390,800 children under 15 are taken to hospital with injuries resulting from a fall at home.
Almost sixty per cent of children who went to hospital after falling at home were under five years old.
56 per cent of under fives injured after falling at home were boys
Deaths and severe injuries are often associated with a fall from a high window or balcony or down stairs. Falls can also result in serious injury if the surface the child hits is hard - such as concrete or paving stones.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10677 on: August 15, 2021, 08:38:15 PM »
Says who?

Here’s some UK statistics on falls in the home including deaths:

https://www.middlesbrough.gov.uk/sites/default/files/first%20foremost%20falls%20factsheet.pdf
We’ve been through all of this before.  You still haven’t been able to link to any example of a child falling from any furniture or the height of the Apartment 5 balcony which resulted in instant or near instant death.  The only news story you could find was a baby who fell between a bed and a wall who suffocated, and even then the child didn’t die immediately.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10678 on: August 15, 2021, 08:50:53 PM »
We’ve been through all of this before.  You still haven’t been able to link to any example of a child falling from any furniture or the height of the Apartment 5 balcony which resulted in instant or near instant death.  The only news story you could find was a baby who fell between a bed and a wall who suffocated, and even then the child didn’t die immediately.

Just read the post above. It talks about deaths from falls onto hard surfaces.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #10679 on: August 15, 2021, 08:56:13 PM »
I work in critical care. I have done for over 30 years. I can assure you that children falling off furniture or window sills is not uncommon.