Should SY set up a special unit to investigate ALL missing child cases?

[jassi]

I thought they did have a special unit set up to investigate missing children?  I know they say that no child is ever forgotten,  and that has been proven with some being solved that have been years old.   The police say if there is any new credible evidence,  the case of any child will be reopened and the evidence will be investigated.   That is what happened in Madeleine's case.

Who is 'they in this context?

[faithlilly]

Here you go: Amaral's 'fessing up to the flawed investigation "we were too honest", "we were too nice", "we were too naive", etc etc.  Well it's one set of reasons anyway....

http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-milestone-amaral-agrees-%E2%80%9Csome-things-we-did-weren%E2%80%99t-right%E2%80%9D

Every investigation by that standard must be flawed as I’m sure lapses of judgement like those detailed above happen in every investigation.

Of course the ‘flaws’ mentioned by Amaral surely worked for rather than against the McCanns ? Who knows what would have happened if the PJ hadn’t been as ‘ naive, honest or nice’ ?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Every investigation by that standard must be flawed as I’m sure lapses of judgement like those detailed above happen in every investigation.

Of course the ‘flaws’ mentioned by Amaral surely worked for rather than against the McCanns ? Who knows what would have happened if the PJ hadn’t been as ‘ naive, honest or nice’ ?

So, you concede the investigation (as I said) was flawed, we can now move back on topic.

[Robittybob1]

With the high proportion of missing children due in some way to the actions of the parents and people known to the parents,  the home of the missing child needs  to be made  forensically secure.

I can see the problem here being the people who are needed to report the missing kids, if they are involved, are then going to spend a bit more effort tidying up, and delay reporting the child missing, but I think it is still the best way.  There seems to have a whole series of issues though for it would mean displacing a family every time a child or person went missing.  Impound all the family vehicles too.

Would the prospect of a major investigation involving the parents make the parents reluctant to report a missing child case?

[faithlilly]

So, you concede the investigation (as I said) was flawed, we can now move back on topic.

And you must concede then that by the standards set in your post every investigation is flawed in some way ?

[Vertigo Swirl]

And you must concede then that by the standards set in your post every investigation is flawed in some way ?

My post again:

 ‘So you are against taxpayers money being spent on the search for either Madeleine McCann or Ben Needham then, even if there is clear evidence that initial investigations were flawed and even if there is a chance that one or both children may still be alive?’

Let's re-phrase slightly

If any initial investigation into a UK missing persons case abroad was flawed and the net result was the case was not solved, and subsequently new evidence emerges which may solve the case, should taxpayers money be spent on a re-investigation of that case and if so, how much and for how long?

[barrier]

If any initial investigation into a UK missing persons case abroad was flawed and the net result was the case was not solved, and subsequently new evidence emerges which may solve the case, should taxpayers money be spent on a re-investigation of that case and if so, how much and for how long?

Its well documented that the MET can't or won't confirm if Madeleine is alive or dead,that is hardly new evidence after nigh on 7 yrs.Given thats the case, how long do you belive  they should continue?In the Needham case the SYP gave their professional belief that Ben was killed in an accident,thus ending the investigation.

[Carana]

Of course you have a cite for the PJ realising that the initial investigation was flawed ?

From the prosecutor's legal summary:
The investigators are well aware of the fact that their work is not exempt of imperfection; they have worked with an enormous error margin, and what they have achieved is very little in terms of conclusive results, especially concerning the fate of the unfortunate child. Nevertheless, they always knew that action was necessary and in reality they acted intensively and with commitment, even at the risk of erring.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm


Admitting nonetheless that the Portuguese police made some key mistakes at the outset, Amaral took Cofina group journalists round the former Ocean Club complex, explaining minutely why statements and accounts given by “the British group” of friends accompanying the McCanns did not, in his opinion, stack up.

(...)

Mistakes? They may not be the sort people were expecting.

“I should not have allowed us to be put under so much pressure”, Amaral told Correio da Manhã’s Sunday magazine, explaining that when the McCann family finally left Praia da Luz in September 2007, the British police who had come over to assist the Portuguese investigation also left - leaving the “sensation that they were only here to protect the couple”.

“We were naive and too diplomatic”, he added. The desire to please the British led investigators to send trace evidence for testing to a UK-based laboratory “so that we would not be accused of manipulation in the final result”.
http://portugalresident.com/amaral-breaks-his-silence

[Miss Taken Identity]

I thought they did have a special unit set up to investigate missing children?   I know they say that no child is ever forgotten,  and that has been proven with some being solved that have been years old.   The police say if there is any new credible evidence,  the case of any child will be reopened and the evidence will be investigated.   That is what happened in Madeleine's case.

The UK police we not involved in the investigation of MBM on her disappearance,There is no file on her here in the UK as she was not reported missing in the UK. On their return without a UK  child citizen the parents were not charged with neglect or anything in this country- which is astonishing. The UK police were coerced by the parents and their celebrity band wagon to get the case reviewed. this turned into an investigation.

So to summarise there was no open/closed case  for, MBM in the UK. Therefore, no new evidence was presented  in the UK to open a non case.

[Miss Taken Identity]

From the prosecutor's legal summary:
The investigators are well aware of the fact that their work is not exempt of imperfection; they have worked with an enormous error margin, and what they have achieved is very little in terms of conclusive results, especially concerning the fate of the unfortunate child. Nevertheless, they always knew that action was necessary and in reality they acted intensively and with commitment, even at the risk of erring.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm


Admitting nonetheless that the Portuguese police made some key mistakes at the outset, Amaral took Cofina group journalists round the former Ocean Club complex, explaining minutely why statements and accounts given by “the British group” of friends accompanying the McCanns did not, in his opinion, stack up.

(...)

Mistakes? They may not be the sort people were expecting.

“I should not have allowed us to be put under so much pressure”, Amaral told Correio da Manhã’s Sunday magazine, explaining that when the McCann family finally left Praia da Luz in September 2007, the British police who had come over to assist the Portuguese investigation also left - leaving the “sensation that they were only here to protect the couple”.

“We were naive and too diplomatic”, he added. The desire to please the British led investigators to send trace evidence for testing to a UK-based laboratory “so that we would not be accused of manipulation in the final result”.
http://portugalresident.com/amaral-breaks-his-silence

We have to look at these issues. I do believe the PJ were at the beginning very gentle and stood back a bit, however the onslaught of libel and lies being spread about the incompetent PJ and claims of them not doing anything, must have affected their relationship, and in turn they perhaps they saw how those parents can carry off telling lies with great ease. Perhaps THEN they saw a deflection going on added up the numbers looked at the 'stories and got a different picture.

We must also bear in mind that initially it was a missing girl even though Kate was apparently aware of an abducted girl... The shutters and curtains whooshing? the PJ would have checked for scurf marks just by looking outside..and they would also have had an idead about the winds that night  owning to living there.

You can tell from early on in interviews after they got that story out and the sympathy came rushing in they began to act ever so smug.. meeting the pope, talking with the PM etc ...You can't blame the PJ for being a bit like rabbits in the headlights.

[faithlilly]

From the prosecutor's legal summary:
The investigators are well aware of the fact that their work is not exempt of imperfection; they have worked with an enormous error margin, and what they have achieved is very little in terms of conclusive results, especially concerning the fate of the unfortunate child. Nevertheless, they always knew that action was necessary and in reality they acted intensively and with commitment, even at the risk of erring.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm


Admitting nonetheless that the Portuguese police made some key mistakes at the outset, Amaral took Cofina group journalists round the former Ocean Club complex, explaining minutely why statements and accounts given by “the British group” of friends accompanying the McCanns did not, in his opinion, stack up.

(...)

Mistakes? They may not be the sort people were expecting.

“I should not have allowed us to be put under so much pressure”, Amaral told Correio da Manhã’s Sunday magazine, explaining that when the McCann family finally left Praia da Luz in September 2007, the British police who had come over to assist the Portuguese investigation also left - leaving the “sensation that they were only here to protect the couple”.

“We were naive and too diplomatic”, he added. The desire to please the British led investigators to send trace evidence for testing to a UK-based laboratory “so that we would not be accused of manipulation in the final result”.
http://portugalresident.com/amaral-breaks-his-silence

Yet again if the investigation was flawed so must its conclusions be ie that the McCann’s non- involvement had been established. You can’t have it both ways.

[Carana]

Yet again if the investigation was flawed so must its conclusions be ie that the McCann’s non- involvement had been established. You can’t have it both ways.

You never know, Faith. Maybe the final lead is to identify Amaral's missing fridge after all... 

Personally, I found the prosecutor's summary objective:

Even if, hypothetically, one could admit that Gerald and Kate McCann might be responsible over the child's death, it would still have to be explained how, where through, when, with what means, with the help of whom and where to they freed themselves of her body within the restricted time frame that would have been available to them to do so. Their daily routine, until the 3rd of May, had been circumscribed to the narrow borders of the 'Ocean Club' resort and to the beach that lies next to it, unknowing the surrounding terrain and, apart from the English friends that were with them on holiday there, they had no known friends or contacts in Portugal.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

It's not clear if his remark re the "margin of error" extends to Rebelo-time or not. In view of the circumstances Rebelo inherited, I found that he generally did a good job. Time constraints due to arguido status meant that he had to find evidence with which the prosecutor could charge one or more arguidos or archive the case.

I don't see how the investigation could have started from zero again with those time constraints, unless something extraordinary had popped up.

Perhaps my only (mild) criticism was to have spent seemingly ages hunting down the source of the ink to print out the photos when it would have been much easier to simply ask and verify the explanation.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Its well documented that the MET can't or won't confirm if Madeleine is alive or dead,that is hardly new evidence after nigh on 7 yrs.Given thats the case, how long do you belive  they should continue?In the Needham case the SYP gave their professional belief that Ben was killed in an accident,thus ending the investigation.

I believe the Met should continue until they solve the case or decide there is no further point continuing, not consider the wishes and feelings of the Great British Public, who have no idea what may or may not have been uncovered in the course of the re-investigation.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Yet again if the investigation was flawed so must its conclusions be ie that the McCann’s non- involvement had been established. You can’t have it both ways.

This is  an overly simplisitc "black and white" conlusion, in my opinion. 

[faithlilly]

This is  an overly simplisitc "black and white" conlusion, in my opinion.

It is you who are looking at the investigation in a simplistic manner.