Tennis timeline

[Vertigo Swirl]

Do you have any reason to doubt the statements?  Each person could have gone off at different times.  If someone leaves at 19.00 or 20.00 what can you make from that?

A reconstitution would sort it all out of course - because this is of vital importance to finding out what happened to Madeleine, isn't it?!

[G-Unit]

Do you have any reason to doubt the statements?  Each person could have gone off at different times.  If someone leaves at 19.00 or 20.00 what can you make from that?

I think anyone with a brain would doubt statements which disagree to the extent that the accounts of the men's social tennis on 3rd May disagree.

If you read the statements you will find that the three men agree that they played together and returned to their apartments together.

Why would two women say one of the men arrived back at 7.10 when the man himself says it was after 7.30 and his friends, who were with him, say it was 8 pm? 

[Vertigo Swirl]

I think anyone with a brain would doubt statements which disagree to the extent that the accounts of the men's social tennis on 3rd May disagree.

If you read the statements you will find that the three men agree that they played together and returned to their apartments together.

Why would two women say one of the men arrived back at 7.10 when the man himself says it was after 7.30 and his friends, who were with him, say it was 8 pm?

There could be several explanations for it, dishonesty is just one, and the least likely IMO. 

[slartibartfast]

There could be several explanations for it, dishonesty is just one, and the least likely IMO.

More likely that they didn’t really pay attention to the time. Don’t know what effect that has on subsequent timings.

[faithlilly]

There could be several explanations for it, dishonesty is just one, and the least likely IMO.

Why the least likely?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Why the least likely?

Because unless you think Matthew, David, Russell, Fiona and Dianne or some permutation of the afore-mentioned are involved in some plot to cover up the death of a child which for some obscure reason necessitates them lying about what time they left the tennis court but then failing to get their stories straight then I can really see no reason for deceit about this matter.

[Robittybob1]

Because unless you think Matthew, David, Russell, Fiona and Dianne or some permutation of the afore-mentioned are involved in some plot to cover up the death of a child which for some obscure reason necessitates them lying about what time they left the tennis court but then failing to get their stories straight then I can really see no reason for deceit about this matter.

Well since G-unit seems to be implying we don't have enough brains maybe she can propose a theory that could account to the time discrepancies.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Well since G-unit seems to be implying we don't have enough brains maybe she can propose a theory that could account to the time discrepancies.

G-Unit doesn’t do theories, she just highlights trivial discrepancies  in an attempt to cast aspersions on the integrity of the Tapas group -IMO.

[Robittybob1]

Oh, well in my opinion it would seem this group are not' normal', because they managed to write out a time line before the police interviewed them as individuals, some would say that was collaboration. I say this because they climed they checked every 30 minutes...checked= listened at door. 

let us see how difficult ta task this is.

arrived at tapas as 8.30 ( how was this time gained- did somone have a watch- look at a clock- or phone?)
1st check               9.00 by ??
2nd check              9.30 by??
3rd check               10pm

In my opinion you see how easy it is when you KNOW for SURE what you did?

AND is it not stated that  they only checked their on children but on this one evening- others checked  the McCanns kids , and there was a physical check by both MBMs parents....

The emphasis of the collaboration is during 8:30 and 10:00 not during the time the men were playing tennis.

If what G-unit seems to imply (without any hints of what she is saying) the troubles started earlier, but there was no collaboration around what happened during that period.  OK was the timeline itself an attempt to put the focus on the wrong time period?

[G-Unit]

Do you have any reason to doubt the statements?  Each person could have gone off at different times.  If someone leaves at 19.00 or 20.00 what can you make from that?

In my opinion Fiona and Dianne got it wrong. I think the correct times are given in Rachael O'Brien's rog interview.

18.45 the women leave the Paraiso
19.00 they arrive at tennis
19.30 the women go to their apartments with their children.

That fits in with Fiona's normal routine, too;

around sort of half seven we would, erm, go back and get them bathed........ The, erm, you know, our, our bath time and bedtime routine would usually take sort of forty-five minutes and the kids would, would be in bed sort of by quarter past eight, half eight.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[Vertigo Swirl]

I think anyone with a brain would doubt statements which disagree to the extent that the accounts of the men's social tennis on 3rd May disagree.

If you read the statements you will find that the three men agree that they played together and returned to their apartments together.

Why would two women say one of the men arrived back at 7.10 when the man himself says it was after 7.30 and his friends, who were with him, say it was 8 pm?

Looks like you’ve solved the mystery all by yourself in your post above this one - the women got it wrong.  People do get things wrong, it’s part of being human.

[G-Unit]

Looks like you’ve solved the mystery all by yourself in your post above this one - the women got it wrong.  People do get things wrong, it’s part of being human.

That;s why I research things; to see if I can work out who is right and who is wrong. Assumptions aren't my thing, so I remain open as to the reason why the women got the times so wrong.

[Vertigo Swirl]

That;s why I research things; to see if I can work out who is right and who is wrong. Assumptions aren't my thing, so I remain open as to the reason why the women got the times so wrong.

Would you like to list the plausible reasons why you think the women got this particular detail wrong?

[G-Unit]

Would you like to list the plausible reasons why you think the women got this particular detail wrong?

No thank you, I prefer to look at the evidence. Fiona speaks of times, but gets them all wrong. She suggests that she watched her husband play tennis between 6.30 and 7 pm, but we, like the police officer, know that wasn't correct.

The women didn't arrive at tennis at 6.30, and even if they had, the men weren't playing. Matthew says it was getting on for 7 pm when they began to play, and Kate tells us David visited her at 6.40 pm. Gerry says David got back to the courts at 7 pm. Eventually Fiona admits that she can't say for sure that David was on the courts between 6 pm and 7 pm, even though she has said she saw him there between 6.30 and 7pm.

I remember saying 'Look, you better go because it's not fair, you've moved the time then you'll be late'. Erm, so I think that, that was sort of approaching five to six........so I think they left probably about, you know, that being Matt and Dave and Russell, around five to six, six o'clock time..........we followed on about ten past six and we just walked back up to, to watch them play a bit of tennis..... I'd say probably by seven o'clock we were, me and my mum headed back with the kids to start bath time.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

The problem is that she would have arrived at the tennis at around 6.30 pm if the women left the Paraiso at 6.10 pm. The men weren't playing at that time.

it was past six before the girls said, well they've moved th, so is forward for us and we're not turning up to the social tennis so you guys should go. So we finished and set off, probably about twenty past six....... so we didn't get on court until, phew, sometime closer to seven.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

1485
 'Just tell me a little bit about that, who was playing who and was there any kids around''
 Reply
 'Erm, yeah, I mean, Gerry, phew, I don't know who was playing who, but there was certainly Gerry, Matt, erm, you know, Russ and Dave........
1485
 'No. So, and again, you have answered this question, but between six and seven as well, could you tell me where David was''
 Reply
 'Erm, I can up to a point, yeah. He was, as I say, he left, as I see it, around six, erm, and then I wouldn't have seen him again until I got to the tennis courts to see him play tennis, so that would have been about half six and then he was playing tennis for that whole half an hour........
1485
 'Although you can't say one hundred percent, can you, if he was on the tennis court between six and seven, can you''
Reply
 'No'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[Vertigo Swirl]

No thank you, I prefer to look at the evidence. Fiona speaks of times, but gets them all wrong. She suggests that she watched her husband play tennis between 6.30 and 7 pm, but we, like the police officer, know that wasn't correct.

The women didn't arrive at tennis at 6.30, and even if they had, the men weren't playing. Matthew says it was getting on for 7 pm when they began to play, and Kate tells us David visited her at 6.40 pm. Gerry says David got back to the courts at 7 pm. Eventually Fiona admits that she can't say for sure that David was on the courts between 6 pm and 7 pm, even though she has said she saw him there between 6.30 and 7pm.

I remember saying 'Look, you better go because it's not fair, you've moved the time then you'll be late'. Erm, so I think that, that was sort of approaching five to six........so I think they left probably about, you know, that being Matt and Dave and Russell, around five to six, six o'clock time..........we followed on about ten past six and we just walked back up to, to watch them play a bit of tennis..... I'd say probably by seven o'clock we were, me and my mum headed back with the kids to start bath time.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

The problem is that she would have arrived at the tennis at around 6.30 pm if the women left the Paraiso at 6.10 pm. The men weren't playing at that time.

it was past six before the girls said, well they've moved th, so is forward for us and we're not turning up to the social tennis so you guys should go. So we finished and set off, probably about twenty past six....... so we didn't get on court until, phew, sometime closer to seven.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

1485
 'Just tell me a little bit about that, who was playing who and was there any kids around''
 Reply
 'Erm, yeah, I mean, Gerry, phew, I don't know who was playing who, but there was certainly Gerry, Matt, erm, you know, Russ and Dave........
1485
 'No. So, and again, you have answered this question, but between six and seven as well, could you tell me where David was''
 Reply
 'Erm, I can up to a point, yeah. He was, as I say, he left, as I see it, around six, erm, and then I wouldn't have seen him again until I got to the tennis courts to see him play tennis, so that would have been about half six and then he was playing tennis for that whole half an hour........
1485
 'Although you can't say one hundred percent, can you, if he was on the tennis court between six and seven, can you''
Reply
 'No'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

So what?  Police use evidence to build a case.  Just amassing evidence without drawing any inference from it or drawing any conclusions is a pointless exercise IMO.