Author Topic: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?  (Read 82993 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #510 on: August 05, 2018, 03:05:21 AM »
And if they'd been subjected to a large whiff of chloroform which left them in an unresponsive state & placed their lives in grave danger - what then?
I'd be surprised if chloroform ever did that.  Once the source is removed the patient is not going to get deeper into sedation.
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Offline Sunny

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #511 on: August 05, 2018, 07:54:39 AM »
That would have, again, been the responsibility of the PJ/CSI team but seemed to have never been addressed.
IMO the concern apparently shown about the twins by the non-police witnesses is evidence that the adults were not habitually sedating the children to facilitate interruption-free dining.

Whether it was the police's responsibility or not, the McCanns as doctors would have the experience and training to see if chloroform had been used on the twins.  I assume they saw no burning around the nose or mouth at that time but then of course Dave Edgar made the statement later that year that the couple believed the children could have been given chloroform.

Chloroform

The toxic dose of chloroform is 7 to 25 mg/dL (0.59 to 2.1 mmol/L).21 At inhaled concentrations of less than 1500 ppm, physical effects of dizziness, tiredness, and headache are reported; anesthesia occurs at a range of 1500 to 30,000 ppm. Chloroform causes irritation to the respiratory tract. It will cause dry mouth, sedation, confusion, and loss of consciousness within 5 to 10 minutes, and unconsciousness may last up to 30 minutes after removal from exposure. Fatalities occur after 5 to 10 minutes at doses of 25,000 ppm or greater by inhalation.21 Often, death is sudden (“sudden sniffing death”) from ventricular dysrhythmias thought to be induced by sensitization of the myocardium to catecholamines.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/chloroform

So it lasts only up to 30 minutes. I didn't think it worked for hours. I have also read that it can cause damage to the liver and kidneys.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #512 on: August 05, 2018, 08:02:30 AM »
Whether it was the police's responsibility or not, the McCanns as doctors would have the experience and training to see if chloroform had been used on the twins.  I assume they saw no burning around the nose or mouth at that time but then of course Dave Edgar made the statement later that year that the couple believed the children could have been given chloroform.

Chloroform

The toxic dose of chloroform is 7 to 25 mg/dL (0.59 to 2.1 mmol/L).21 At inhaled concentrations of less than 1500 ppm, physical effects of dizziness, tiredness, and headache are reported; anesthesia occurs at a range of 1500 to 30,000 ppm. Chloroform causes irritation to the respiratory tract. It will cause dry mouth, sedation, confusion, and loss of consciousness within 5 to 10 minutes, and unconsciousness may last up to 30 minutes after removal from exposure. Fatalities occur after 5 to 10 minutes at doses of 25,000 ppm or greater by inhalation.21 Often, death is sudden (“sudden sniffing death”) from ventricular dysrhythmias thought to be induced by sensitization of the myocardium to catecholamines.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/chloroform

So it lasts only up to 30 minutes. I didn't think it worked for hours. I have also read that it can cause damage to the liver and kidneys.
Do you have a cite for the McCanns saying they believed chloroform was used?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #513 on: August 05, 2018, 08:03:55 AM »
He implied she was trying to look innocent.
Still not a credible reason for drawing attention to a dastardly deed you have supposedly committed yourself.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #514 on: August 05, 2018, 08:15:48 AM »
Still not a credible reason for drawing attention to a dastardly deed you have supposedly committed yourself.
If she did sedate her own kids, I agree she wouldn't draw attention to that possibility, but it would look just as bad if she tries to deny it.
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Offline Sunny

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #515 on: August 05, 2018, 08:20:58 AM »
Do you have a cite for the McCanns saying they believed chloroform was used?

I gave a cite last night. Look it up yourself.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #516 on: August 05, 2018, 08:22:17 AM »
Do you have a cite for the McCanns saying they believed chloroform was used?
IIRC there are no cites "for the McCanns saying they believed chloroform was used". 

I gave a cite last night. Look it up yourself.
Have I missed something?
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Sunny

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #517 on: August 05, 2018, 08:27:33 AM »
IIRC there are no cites "for the McCanns saying they believed chloroform was used". 
Have I missed something?

On post #484 Robittybob1

Dave Edgar was quoted as saying "They are convinced the ­abductor went to the family’s apartment on May 3 2007 fully prepared with sufficient drugs, probably ­chloroform, to knock out all three children"

I didn't actually say that the McCanns said it I said Dave Edgar and Vertigo Swirl was putting words in my mouth so to speak. All IMO of course.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #518 on: August 05, 2018, 08:29:10 AM »
On post #484 Robittybob1

Dave Edgar was quoted as saying "They are convinced the ­abductor went to the family’s apartment on May 3 2007 fully prepared with sufficient drugs, probably ­chloroform, to knock out all three children"

I didn't actually say that the McCanns said it I said Dave Edgar and Vertigo Swirl was putting words in my mouth so to speak. All IMO of course.
Who are “the couple” you refer to in the sentence above then? Reply #511
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Sunny

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #519 on: August 05, 2018, 08:40:56 AM »
Who are “the couple” you refer to in the sentence above then? Reply #511

Part of my post #511

Whether it was the police's responsibility or not, the McCanns as doctors would have the experience and training to see if chloroform had been used on the twins.  I assume they saw no burning around the nose or mouth at that time but then of course Dave Edgar made the statement later that year that the couple believed the children could have been given chloroform.

Look above and you see I said Dave Edgar made the statement not the McCanns.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #520 on: August 05, 2018, 08:45:45 AM »
Part of my post #511

Whether it was the police's responsibility or not, the McCanns as doctors would have the experience and training to see if chloroform had been used on the twins.  I assume they saw no burning around the nose or mouth at that time but then of course Dave Edgar made the statement later that year that the couple believed the children could have been given chloroform.

Look above and you see I said Dave Edgar made the statement not the McCanns.
OK, now please post the cite to support your statement above, thanks.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Sunny

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #521 on: August 05, 2018, 08:47:51 AM »
I already have VS see post #484 again.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #522 on: August 05, 2018, 08:49:54 AM »
I already have VS see post #484 again.
I have read it several times and at no point does Dave Edgar suggest that the McCanns believed chloroform was used, you are mistaken.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Sunny

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #523 on: August 05, 2018, 08:54:59 AM »
You are right Vertigo Swirl. I see now it was Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley who were convinced not the McCanns.

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #524 on: August 05, 2018, 09:00:55 AM »
You are right Vertigo Swirl. I see now it was Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley who were convinced not the McCanns.
8((()*/
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".