Author Topic: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?  (Read 83026 times)

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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #615 on: August 06, 2018, 08:24:52 AM »
???  According to G-Unit, when asked the PJ said there was no evidence of sedation.  Who asked them and when, and where is their recorded answer?  I think we need a cite, don’t you?

They asked the FLOs who, one would assume, would the people answering.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #616 on: August 06, 2018, 08:59:48 AM »
I thought there was no evidence that thr FLOs ever passed on the questions to the PJ?

It's a fact that the answer was no, whether the FLO's asked the PJ or not;

The area of the pillow of the bed from the minor disappeared was inspected with the intention to detect the presence of some smell [aroma] characteristic of volatile substances typical of chloroform or ether, this search proving negative
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #617 on: August 06, 2018, 09:00:21 AM »
They asked the FLOs who, one would assume, would the people answering.
So assumptions basically.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #618 on: August 06, 2018, 09:01:24 AM »
And yet we know the files do not contain every statement recorded, so what else might be missing?

The files contain every statement taken by the PJ in my opinion.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #619 on: August 06, 2018, 09:05:13 AM »
Cite please.

Please could you provide a cite for 'searching the apartment for drugs'?
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #620 on: August 06, 2018, 09:06:50 AM »
The files contain every statement taken by the PJ in my opinion.
I thought there was proof that certain statements were not in the files?  An index reference to them, but no statement?  Someone more well versed in the files than I can correct me if I’m mistaken.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #621 on: August 06, 2018, 09:08:55 AM »
G-Unit said “they asked”, but has previously argued that there is no evidence that “they asked”.  Who is “they”?

The McCanns asked the FLO's;

They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN_MARKLEY.htm
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #622 on: August 06, 2018, 09:16:34 AM »
I thought there was proof that certain statements were not in the files?  An index reference to them, but no statement?  Someone more well versed in the files than I can correct me if I’m mistaken.

There are statements and other information which are referenced in the files but weren't released for various reasons.

There are other statements which never made it into the files. AFAIK they were taken by UK police officers.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MISSING_PAGES.htm
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #623 on: August 06, 2018, 09:21:45 AM »
There are statements and other information which are referenced in the files but weren't released for various reasons.

There are other statements which never made it into the files. AFAIK they were taken by UK police officers.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MISSING_PAGES.htm
So the files are not complete then, just as I said.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #624 on: August 06, 2018, 09:23:38 AM »
The McCanns asked the FLO's;

They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN_MARKLEY.htm
So we have established, contrary to previous assertions, that the McCanns did ask about sedation very early on in the investigation, now who gave them an answer and where is this recorded?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #625 on: August 06, 2018, 09:38:58 AM »
It's a fact that the answer was no, whether the FLO's asked the PJ or not;

The area of the pillow of the bed from the minor disappeared was inspected with the intention to detect the presence of some smell [aroma] characteristic of volatile substances typical of chloroform or ether, this search proving negative
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
What day was this test on the pillow done?
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #626 on: August 06, 2018, 09:50:54 AM »
So we have established, contrary to previous assertions, that the McCanns did ask about sedation very early on in the investigation, now who gave them an answer and where is this recorded?

The McCanns asked if the PJ had any evidence suggesting that Madeleine had been sedated. A fairly easily understood question with a simple answer. In my opinion it doesn't matter if they were given the answer and by whom? We know the question and we know the answer.

 
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #627 on: August 06, 2018, 09:58:15 AM »
The McCanns asked if the PJ had any evidence suggesting that Madeleine had been sedated. A fairly easily understood question with a simple answer. In my opinion it doesn't matter if they were given the answer and by whom? We know the question and we know the answer.
What is relevant to the argument is that the McCanns raised the issue of possible sedation very early on in the investigation, not 3 months later as has been asserted before. 
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline faithlilly

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #628 on: August 06, 2018, 10:03:11 AM »
From Madeleine

All the same, we were reassured to see some UK police that day in the shape of three family liaison officers (FLOs) from the Leicestershire force, which had also officially logged Madeleine as missing. They came to introduce themselves and to outline their dual role: supporting us and our family and acting as a conduit for the flow of information between us and the PJ. After the trouble we’d had getting anyone in the PJ to talk to us, that was a relief, although the FLOs would soon find themselves almost as frustrated as we were in this regard.

The police and judiciary in the country where a crime has been committed have primacy in any investigation. If interviews need to be conducted or lines of inquiry followed in another country, they request such help under mutual legal assistance treaties and protocols, and results are sent back to them. The Portuguese police were apparently reluctant early on to accept any help beyond this from their counterparts in the UK. However, in addition to the Leicestershire FLOs, they did permit forensic psychologists from CEOP, the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, and an analyst from the National Policing Improvements Agency to come to Praia da Luz the following week. Even that may have been unprecedented: we understood this was the first time the Portuguese authorities had ever allowed any foreign force into the country to assist in an investigation. In such a situation, an element of pride is bound to come into play, and the relationship always seemed quite tricky. It never amounted to an effective pooling of information, ideas or intelligence.

It appeared that the British officers were told very little about what was going on and that their role was essentially confined to making suggestions or volunteering resources. The local police, not used to disclosing the details of an investigation, were clearly wary of answering all the questions they were being asked. According to what we would hear a few weeks down the line, the Leicestershire officers were told in no uncertain terms that if the PJ declined any ideas they proposed or refused offers of additional expertise they must accept this. If they didn’t, they would be excluded from the investigation completely.

Still, we were very grateful for their involvement, which would substantially improve communications. In the coming weeks we would meet DCS Bob Small, who we found straight-talking and honest. A lot of hard work went on at home as well, where DS Stuart Prior, the senior investigating officer, was kind enough to show our relatives round the incident room – and Gerry, too, later on.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Could all three children have been sedated by an intruder?
« Reply #629 on: August 06, 2018, 10:17:11 AM »
What is relevant to the argument is that the McCanns raised the issue of possible sedation very early on in the investigation, not 3 months later as has been asserted before.

It was three months before they mentioned that the twins may have been sedated.
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