UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on May 26, 2020, 09:51:24 PM
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They ground up Collin Caffell's collection of milk teeth from his kids to run DNA tests. I'm looking forward to seeing if that has assisted in any way. Surely it only supports the previous finding that the blood in the silencer was not Sheila's.
It always worried me why they were termed "the Devil's children" OK Collin and Sheila weren't married, but surely that wasn't the only reason.
Do we have any experts here on the inheritance of blood groupings?
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They ground up Collin Caffell's collection of milk teeth from his kids to run DNA tests. I'm looking forward to seeing if that has assisted in any way. Surely it only supports the previous finding that the blood in the silencer was not Sheila's.
It always worried me why they were termed "the Devil's children" OK Collin and Sheila weren't married, but surely that wasn't the only reason.
Do we have any experts here on the inheritance of blood groupings?
Colin and Sheila weren’t married? That’s news to me.
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Colin and Sheila weren’t married? That’s news to me.
OK I seen reports like where June tries to get them officially married by offering them a nice house if they agreed to marry. OK I'm fairly new to this case as it is "British". We've had a similar case in NZ to work through.
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Colin and Sheila weren’t married? That’s news to me.
Yet this article says they were married and then divorced.
"After finding out they were expecting a child, Sheila and Colin got married, when she was just 20 years old.
Sadly the couple lost the baby when Sheila was six months pregnant.
The couple then suffered one more miscarriage before Sheila became pregnant with twins.
Daniel and Nicholas were born in June 1979.
After the boys were born Sheila lived off welfare and low-paid jobs such as cleaning and waitressing.
Colin Caffell, ex-husband of Sheila Caffell (Image: ITV)
Sheila and Colin's marriage soon broke down, with reports that he had had an affair and they divorced.
After the divorce the former model found a new friendship group where she was given the nickname 'Bambi' and became involved in partying, drugs and older men.
She moved into a flay in Maida Vale, where she lived at the time of the murders.
Relationship with the Bambers
It was well known that Sheila did not have the best relationship with her adoptive mother June.
When they made her have an abortion they became more divided.
June disapproved of some of Sheila's behaviour, including a time where she caught her sunbathing naked in a field with Colin.
It is reported that after that June started calling Sheila "the devil's child"" https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/sad-life-white-house-farms-3810392
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That same article goes further:
"Struggles with mental health
In her 28 years, Sheila had many struggles with her mental health ranging from violent outbursts to hitting her head against walls.
In 1983 she was referred to a psychiatrist by her family and was diagnosed with schizophrenia who described her as being in an agitated state, paranoid and psychotic.
One doctor described how Sheila believed she had been taken over by the devil and even described her sons as the "devil's children", just like June had called her.
Sheila even told her that she could make her sons be violent and that she felt she was capable of killing them.
https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/sad-life-white-house-farms-3810392
"She had spoken about killing herself in the past, but doctors did not believe she was a genuine risk to herself.
The mum-of-two believed that she had been in direct contact with God and that people were trying to kill her, including her boyfriend.
Throughout her struggles, Sheila spent time in and out of hospital, including being admitted just five months before her death in 1985.
She was also put on aniti-psycotic drugs up until the day she died.
The last time she was discharged from hospital, Sheila was put on monthly injections which had a sedative effect."
Where was this information coming from? Was it from her specialists?
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They ground up Collin Caffell's collection of milk teeth from his kids to run DNA tests. I'm looking forward to seeing if that has assisted in any way. Surely it only supports the previous finding that the blood in the silencer was not Sheila's.
It always worried me why they were termed "the Devil's children" OK Collin and Sheila weren't married, but surely that wasn't the only reason.
Do we have any experts here on the inheritance of blood groupings?
Colin and Sheila had been married!
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Colin and Sheila had been married!
If they were married at the time the twins were conceived why did anyone think of them as the "Devil's Children"?
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If they were married at the time the twins were conceived why did anyone think of them as the "Devil's Children"?
Result of Sheila thinking irrationally, owing to her illness, I believe.
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If they were married at the time the twins were conceived why did anyone think of them as the "Devil's Children"?
There is no IF! FFS! I just posted their wedding picture, they certainly weren't at a fancy dress party!
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Result of Sheila thinking irrationally, owing to her illness, I believe.
Colin gave the twin's milk teeth to the investigators, so what were the results? Studies (one about 15 years ago) have shown that up to 25% of children are not fathered by the person called Dad. The results of the DNA analysis would have to be kept secret.
There is no IF! FFS! I just posted their wedding picture, they certainly weren't at a fancy dress party!
OK I accept they got married before the twins were conceived. Apparently divorced soon after the twins were born.
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Sheila was desperate to get away from her deeply religious family and head for London. After leaving school at 16, she enrolled at a secretarial college in Swiss Cottage and began modelling. But in 1974, aged 17, in an echo of her own birth mother, she became pregnant by her boyfriend, and future husband, Colin Caffell.
The Bambers arranged an abortion. By now, Sheila's relationship with her mother was becoming increasingly fraught.
Her lack of physical affection left Sheila dreaming of her real mother. According to Colin, when he and Sheila were caught by June sunbathing naked in a field she called her the 'devil child'.
After Sheila became pregnant again, she and Colin married in May 1977, but she lost the baby at six months. She suffered another miscarriage before giving birth to twin sons in June 1979. But the marriage to Colin broke down five months later and they divorced in 1982.
While they remained friends, the years that followed were painful ones, dogged by Sheila's depression and mental illness and she began undergoing treatment in 1983 for mild schizophrenia.
Jeremy Bamber would later try to use her fragile mental health as a motive for murder when he initially convinced police Sheila carried out the killings before taking her own life. In the aftermath of the murders, much was made in the Press of Sheila's fragile mental state and whether or not meeting her [biological] mother had tipped her over the edge." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7971451/How-Jeremy-Bambers-sister-Bambi-overjoyed-meet-birth-mother-months-murder.html
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They ground up Collin Caffell's collection of milk teeth from his kids to run DNA tests. I'm looking forward to seeing if that has assisted in any way. Surely it only supports the previous finding that the blood in the silencer was not Sheila's.
It always worried me why they were termed "the Devil's children" OK Collin and Sheila weren't married, but surely that wasn't the only reason.
Do we have any experts here on the inheritance of blood groupings?
Colin and Sheila’s twin sons’ teeth weren’t taken to discover parentage: they were taken because that repugnant lump of evil, Jeremy Bamber, tried one of his numerous attempts at trying to worm out of his cell by hoping the blood in the silencer didn’t match Sheila’s.
Colin, already bereft, had to hand over his boys’ milk teeth on account of the putrid psychopath you appear to admire:
You’ve admitted you’re looking forward to seeing the results, in the hope the twins weren’t Sheila’s and Colin’s children: Well, the results came back DECADES ago, and proved the twins parents were Sheila and Colin.
Those beautiful, sweet little children were NEVER called “Devil Children”!
They were loving, gorgeous, wonderful boys, and both June and Nevill ADORED them. And both their mother and father, Sheila and Colin adored them too!
The ONLY evil being in this is Jeremy, the psychopath you seem to suck up to...
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Let's please not delve into areas which affect innocent living persons, it not cool.
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Colin and Sheila’s twin sons’ teeth weren’t taken to discover parentage: they were taken because that repugnant lump of evil, Jeremy Bamber, tried one of his numerous attempts at trying to worm out of his cell by hoping the blood in the silencer didn’t match Sheila’s.
Colin, already bereft, had to hand over his boys’ milk teeth on account of the putrid psychopath you appear to admire:
You’ve admitted you’re looking forward to seeing the results, in the hope the twins weren’t Sheila’s and Colin’s children: Well, the results came back DECADES ago, and proved the twins parents were Sheila and Colin.
Those beautiful, sweet little children were NEVER called “Devil Children”!
They were loving, gorgeous, wonderful boys, and both June and Nevill ADORED them. And both their mother and father, Sheila and Colin adored them too!
The ONLY evil being in this is Jeremy, the psychopath you seem to suck up to...
Show me the results. Cite please.
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Colin and Sheila’s twin sons’ teeth weren’t taken to discover parentage: they were taken because that repugnant lump of evil, Jeremy Bamber, tried one of his numerous attempts at trying to worm out of his cell by hoping the blood in the silencer didn’t match Sheila’s.
Colin, already bereft, had to hand over his boys’ milk teeth on account of the putrid psychopath you appear to admire:
You’ve admitted you’re looking forward to seeing the results, in the hope the twins weren’t Sheila’s and Colin’s children: Well, the results came back DECADES ago, and proved the twins parents were Sheila and Colin.
Those beautiful, sweet little children were NEVER called “Devil Children”!
They were loving, gorgeous, wonderful boys, and both June and Nevill ADORED them. And both their mother and father, Sheila and Colin adored them too!
The ONLY evil being in this is Jeremy, the psychopath you seem to suck up to...
Are you able to provide evidence for the things you claim?
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Are you able to provide evidence for the things you claim?
Are you able to provide evidence for the things you claim and suggest? Eg on this thread and here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11518.msg591939#msg591939
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Are you able to provide evidence for the things you claim and suggest? Eg on this thread and here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11518.msg591939#msg591939
I quoted from a very well known Appeal document.
I finish off asking a question, which as you know is not a claim nor a statement. "Did Collin Caffell have a watertight alibi for that night?"
So what is your issue?
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I quoted from a very well known Appeal document.
I finish off asking a question, which as you know is not a statement. "Did Collin Caffell have a watertight alibi for that night?"
So what is your issue?
What aspect of the appeal doc are you now referring to?
Where's the evidence the twins were referred to as the Devil's children?
Yes CC had a watertight alibi but why on earth would he need one? What possible motive could he have for shooting dead his former wife, in-laws and much loved young sons?
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What aspect of the appeal doc are you now referring to?
Where's the evidence the twins were referred to as the Devil's children?
Yes CC had a watertight alibi but why on earth would he need one? What possible motive could he have for shooting dead his former wife, in-laws and much loved young sons?
But Robbiebobbiebooboo appears determined to find the chink -ANY chink- which will let water trickle in.
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What aspect of the appeal doc are you now referring to?
Where's the evidence the twins were referred to as the Devil's children?
Yes CC had a watertight alibi but why on earth would he need one? What possible motive could he have for shooting dead his former wife, in-laws and much loved young sons?
You linked to a specific post above. I found heaps of references to the fact others including Sheila had called the children that.
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What aspect of the appeal doc are you now referring to?
Where's the evidence the twins were referred to as the Devil's children?
Yes CC had a watertight alibi but why on earth would he need one? What possible motive could he have for shooting dead his former wife, in-laws and much loved young sons?
At no time do I even suggest Colin did this so why do you ask such a question as "What possible motive could he have for shooting dead his former wife, in-laws and much loved young sons?".
It is you that is making that suggestion, not me.
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But Robbiebobbiebooboo appears determined to find the chink -ANY chink- which will let water trickle in.
And that is how you solve the case. You've got to look for the inconsistency.
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And that is how you solve the case. You've got to look for the inconsistency.
The police checked out the inconsistencies many years ago and solved the case as a result. Since then the evidence has never been without scrutiny for one reason or another ... so I think it has all been well covered by people who know what they are doing.
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At no time do I even suggest Colin did this so why do you ask such a question as "What possible motive could he have for shooting dead his former wife, in-laws and much loved young sons?".
It is you that is making that suggestion, not me.
You need to make yourself clearer then as it seems everyone on the thread interpreted your posts as I did.
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And that is how you solve the case. You've got to look for the inconsistency.
It may have slipped your notice -understandable as you're so far away- but the case was solved nearly 35 years ago.
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You linked to a specific post above. I found heaps of references to the fact others including Sheila had called the children that.
It's what June referred to Sheila as being, but to the best of my knowledge, the only time Sheila ever suggested such being the case with her boys was during her first breakdown when she spoke of her fears about it with Dr Ferguson.
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At no time do I even suggest Colin did this so why do you ask such a question as "What possible motive could he have for shooting dead his former wife, in-laws and much loved young sons?".
It is you that is making that suggestion, not me.
I could have sworn you very much wanted Colin, if not to have been responsible, at least to have had a hand in it. Why else do you go on, ad nauseum, about his alibi?
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It may have slipped your notice -understandable as you're so far away- but the case was solved nearly 35 years ago.
Not IMO. Jeremy is still insisting he is innocent. The police won't release files. and he passed a polygraph with flying colours.
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I could have sworn you very much wanted Colin, if not to have been responsible, at least to have had a hand in it. Why else do you go on, ad nauseum, about his alibi?
Well if Jeremy is innocent who else was involved. It would have to someone without a watertight alibi.
Involvement could be a matter of degree. From suicide, matricide, homicide, and self-defense resulting in death.
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Well if Jeremy is innocent who else was involved. It would have to someone without a watertight alibi.
Involvement could be a matter of degree. From suicide, matricide, homicide, and self-defense resulting in death.
But you claim that "At no time do I even suggest that Colin did this.........." yet you're trying your damndest to involve him.
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But you claim that "At no time do I even suggest that Colin did this.........." yet you're trying your damndest to involve him.
Are you not a Jeremy Bamber supporter?
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Are you not a Jeremy Bamber supporter?
You're correct. I'm NOT a Jeremy supporter.
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You're correct. I'm NOT a Jeremy supporter.
That explains the difference then, I'm looking for another suspect or other suspects, but you are not.
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That explains the difference then, I'm looking for another suspect or other suspects, but you are not.
Are you SO determined that he's innocent that you really don't care who else you put in the frame for it, or are you just enjoying the playing detective thing.
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Are you SO determined that he's innocent that you really don't care who else you put in the frame for it, or are you just enjoying the playing detective thing.
I think of it as my occupation. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166636/Bamber-slaughtered-family-25-bullets-told-girlfriend-s-going-years-investigation-leading-author-tell-exactly-happened-night-White-House-Farm-massacre.html CAL has a section there where she spoke to Colin.
I just wanted to know if he had an alibi for that night, and I wonder if Jeremy hadn't contacted him in order to get him involved since they (June and Neville) were discussing the adoption of his kids.
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That explains the difference then, I'm looking for another suspect or other suspects, but you are not.
The defence and prosecution at trial agreed the perp was either JB or SC.
IMO you are wasting everyone's time and flooding the board with material that doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny.
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I think of it as my occupation. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166636/Bamber-slaughtered-family-25-bullets-told-girlfriend-s-going-years-investigation-leading-author-tell-exactly-happened-night-White-House-Farm-massacre.html CAL has a section there where she spoke to Colin.
I just wanted to know if he had an alibi for that night, and I wonder if Jeremy hadn't contacted him in order to get him involved since they (June and Neville) were discussing the adoption of his kids.
Butt CAL is working from the premise that such a conversation occurred. I'm saying, as we only have Jeremy's word for everything that transpired, and every word which was spoken, there's a strong likelihood that it didn't.
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Butt CAL is working from the premise that such a conversation occurred. I'm saying, as we only have Jeremy's word for everything that transpired, and every word which was spoken, there's a strong likelihood that it didn't.
I don't think that necessarily follows. IMO, it's just the sort of conversation they could well have had.
We'll never know for sure, though.
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I don't think that necessarily follows. IMO, it's just the sort of conversation they could well have had.
We'll never know for sure, though.
I don't believe it is. Or at least, not in the same format that Jeremy implied. The Bambers would have been fully aware of the legal boundaries -tighter then, than now- and they had no legal jurisdiction over the children, ergo, there wouldn't have been a conversation about taking them out of Colin's care, which was what placing them in another's care would have amounted to. Jeremy just needed there to have been the sort of conversation which would stir Sheila into action.
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The defence and prosecution at trial agreed the perp was either JB or SC.
IMO you are wasting everyone's time and flooding the board with material that doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny.
But is it against the rules?
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I don't believe it is. Or at least, not in the same format that Jeremy implied. The Bambers would have been fully aware of the legal boundaries -tighter then, than now- and they had no legal jurisdiction over the children, ergo, there wouldn't have been a conversation about taking them out of Colin's care, which was what placing them in another's care would have amounted to. Jeremy just needed there to have been the sort of conversation which would stir Sheila into action.
They would have been fully aware of the legal position, yes, but Colin wasn't there to argue back/speak up for Sheila, who may not have been able to cope with her parents on her own.
I can well imagine it happening, but, of course, it's also possible that it didn't, and Jeremy made the whole thing up. We'll never know, because there are no witnesses except Jeremy, and he isn't going to be believed, even if, on this occasion, he was telling the truth!
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They would have been fully aware of the legal position, yes, but Colin wasn't there to argue back/speak up for Sheila, who may not have been able to cope with her parents on her own.
I can well imagine it happening, but, of course, it's also possible that it didn't, and Jeremy made the whole thing up. We'll never know, because there are no witnesses except Jeremy, and he isn't going to be believed, even if, on this occasion, he was telling the truth!
Barbara Wilson told CAL that Nevill Bamber told her they were hoping to get custody of the twins. "They were definitely making formal arrangements" she said. [CAL p140 kindle ed]
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Barbara Wilson told CAL that Nevill Bamber told her they were hoping to get custody of the twins. "They were definitely making formal arrangements" she said. [CAL p140 kindle ed]
Barbara Wilson has not LOTS of conflicting statements. Like you do frequently, I am dismissing anything she has said. Pretty much of it anyway.
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I think of it as my occupation. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166636/Bamber-slaughtered-family-25-bullets-told-girlfriend-s-going-years-investigation-leading-author-tell-exactly-happened-night-White-House-Farm-massacre.html CAL has a section there where she spoke to Colin.
I just wanted to know if he had an alibi for that night, and I wonder if Jeremy hadn't contacted him in order to get him involved since they (June and Neville) were discussing the adoption of his kids.
you really could do with a different occupation then, you’re not doing a very good job in this one, imo.
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Butt CAL is working from the premise that such a conversation occurred. I'm saying, as we only have Jeremy's word for everything that transpired, and every word which was spoken, there's a strong likelihood that it didn't.
Especially as he’s a pathological liar
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The defence and prosecution at trial agreed the perp was either JB or SC.
IMO you are wasting everyone's time and flooding the board with material that doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny.
Well, that was a serious strategic error on Jeremy's part for he could have no idea what happened if his story is correct for he wasn't there.
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Butt CAL is working from the premise that such a conversation occurred. I'm saying, as we only have Jeremy's word for everything that transpired, and every word which was spoken, there's a strong likelihood that it didn't.
That is biased in your opinion on the case.
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I don't believe it is. Or at least, not in the same format that Jeremy implied. The Bambers would have been fully aware of the legal boundaries -tighter then, than now- and they had no legal jurisdiction over the children, ergo, there wouldn't have been a conversation about taking them out of Colin's care, which was what placing them in another's care would have amounted to. Jeremy just needed there to have been the sort of conversation which would stir Sheila into action.
That is the question. How better to stir things up other than to ring Colin and bring him into the deadly mix.
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But is it against the rules?
I did get a warning so some part of what I wrote a couple of days ago was against the rules. But that part was edited out of my post so I take it what remains is OK.
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They would have been fully aware of the legal position, yes, but Colin wasn't there to argue back/speak up for Sheila, who may not have been able to cope with her parents on her own.
I can well imagine it happening, but, of course, it's also possible that it didn't, and Jeremy made the whole thing up. We'll never know, because there are no witnesses except Jeremy, and he isn't going to be believed, even if, on this occasion, he was telling the truth!
Others who rang the house could tell there was at least an argument going on.
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That is the question. How better to stir things up other than to ring Colin and bring him into the deadly mix.
Rob, you are reminiscent of an antipodean, innocuous Sancho Panza character. People may consider that your naive ramblings are faux. No, I know you to be different.
Never change.
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I did get a warning so some part of what I wrote a couple of days ago was against the rules. But that part was edited out of my post so I take it what remains is OK.
You should wield your power and rescind that shit on yourself. Stick it to the man.
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you really could do with a different occupation then, you’re not doing a very good job in this one, imo.
It isn't an easy case.
Rob, you are reminiscent of an antipodean, innocuous Sancho Panza character. People may consider that your naive ramblings are faux. No, I know you to be different.
Never change.
Thanks General.
You should wield your power and rescind that shit on yourself. Stick it to the man.
I probably did overstep the boundary. Colin has a child and she may be following the forum. She struggles enough with it, according to Colin.
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Especially as he’s a pathological liar
Remind me of one proven lie then please?
As I said above it maybe Jeremy's lawyer who came up with this one: "The defense and prosecution at trial agreed the perp was either JB or SC."
I've never seen Jeremy say those words or has he?
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Barbara Wilson has not LOTS of conflicting statements. Like you do frequently, I am dismissing anything she has said. Pretty much of it anyway.
The point being what she said, not whether you believe her or not. Evidence is evidence. It seems the Bambers were aware of how ill their daughter was and what might happen; "Sheila wasn't well and she wasn't getting any better. There was a possibility that she would have to go into hospital again and might lose regular access to the children."
It was clear they were concerned; June was even opening up to her sister. She planned to take Sheila to see her on
the following day so Pamela could 'form an opinion' about her health. Pamela got the impression from June that Sheila was behaving oddly. [w/s 12/8/85]
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The point being what she said, not whether you believe her or not. Evidence is evidence. It seems the Bambers were aware of how ill their daughter was and what might happen; "Sheila wasn't well and she wasn't getting any better. There was a possibility that she would have to go into hospital again and might lose regular access to the children."
It was clear they were concerned; June was even opening up to her sister. She planned to take Sheila to see her on
the following day so Pamela could 'form an opinion' about her health. Pamela got the impression from June that Sheila was behaving oddly. [w/s 12/8/85]
WOW! I could say the same to you about Michael Fielder, it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not - but it doesn't stop you denying the incident took place when we know Bamber did meet Fielder and we have Colin's verification on the words spoken to him and also seen in print!
June had spoken to Colin's mother about a fear of the children being fostered, it was something she didn't want and she had no power to organise such a thing even if she were in favour. You're trying to suggest that Shila was on the edge of psychosis and there is no evidence of that - quite the opposite!
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WOW! I could say the same to you about Michael Fielder, it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not - but it doesn't stop you denying the incident took place when we know Bamber did meet Fielder and we have Colin's verification on the words spoken to him and also seen in print!
June had spoken to Colin's mother about a fear of the children being fostered, it was something she didn't want and she had no power to organise such a thing even if she were in favour. You're trying to suggest that Shila was on the edge of psychosis and there is no evidence of that - quite the opposite!
That's the point about evidence; to test it's reliability. Barbara Wilson offers some support to Jeremy's account of his parent's feelings about Sheila and the children.
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WOW! I could say the same to you about Michael Fielder, it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not - but it doesn't stop you denying the incident took place when we know Bamber did meet Fielder and we have Colin's verification on the words spoken to him and also seen in print!
June had spoken to Colin's mother about a fear of the children being fostered, it was something she didn't want and she had no power to organise such a thing even if she were in favour. You're trying to suggest that Shila was on the edge of psychosis and there is no evidence of that - quite the opposite!
June and SC suffered long histories of mental illness which may well have made communication difficult.
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June and SC suffered long histories of mental illness which may well have made communication difficult.
June Bamber suffered from mental illness too, I didn't know that. She looks like she was tortured before being killed outright. There seems to be real hate expressed in the manner of her death. Just my opinion at this stage after looking at that crime scene photo.
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June Bamber suffered from mental illness too, I didn't know that. She looks like she was tortured before being killed outright. There seems to be real hate expressed in the manner of her death. Just my opinion at this stage after looking at that crime scene photo.
Forgive the observation, but with such limited knowledge of the case, it surprising that you feel able to expound on it with such authority.
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June and SC suffered long histories of mental illness which may well have made communication difficult.
Would you say someone who’s been obsessed with a mass murderer for almost 10 years could have a mental illness?
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Would you say someone who’s been obsessed with a mass murderer for almost 10 years could have a mental illness?
I hope not for I have been interested longer than that.
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I hope not for I have been interested longer than that.
I've been interested in a number of murderers (mass and otherwise) for a long time, and nobody who actually knows me has yet suggested I'm mentally ill.
Obsession, of course, is more dangerous, but I doubt anyone on here is obsessed. If they are, it's with the case, not with JB.
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Would you say someone who’s been obsessed with a mass murderer for almost 10 years could have a mental illness?
No.
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Would you say someone who’s been obsessed with a mass murderer for almost 10 years could have a mental illness?
Being interested in the case isn't a mental condition or that means most of us are mentally ill.
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I hope not for I have been interested longer than that.
Which mass murderer have you been interested in for longer than 10 years?
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Which mass murderer have you been interested in for longer than 10 years?
I was investigating the case against Scott Watson from 2000 AD, 20 years just on that case alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ben_Smart_and_Olivia_Hope
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I was investigating the case against Scott Watson from 2000 AD, 20 years just on that case alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ben_Smart_and_Olivia_Hope
You were investigating it, Bob?
Are you a detective?
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Being interested in the case isn't a mental condition or that means most of us are mentally ill.
True, Caroline
I myself have become interested in the case since watching WHF on TV; though I knew about the case, obviously
But I cant foresee myself discussing it and dedicating all my time to it for the next 10 years 🤯 And most certainly not trying to effectively “spring” him from where he belongs — in jail.
There’s definitely a few people on here who are completely obsessed, and they’re the ones who support JB. Why’s thta, I wonder?
I don’t believe it’s healthy to spend a decade thinking of nothing but Jeremy Bamber. Maybe it’s a distraction from the reality of their own lives; or maybe they’re simply obsessed with him. ...
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You were investigating it, Bob?
Are you a detective?
I'm more like a psychic than a detective. I pray for answers and if I feel that the Lord gives me one I'll try to turn that into real evidence. In the Watson case, I was told twice to "go help Scott for he is being convicted of a crime he did not do". It took me two years to get in a position to investigate the situation, and after 10 years I presented my findings to the Minister of Justice.
It was very frustrating to find that no one took any notice of my findings. So over the last few years, I have taken a rest from the case, just delving into it when it got newsworthy.
As far as being on the MOJ forum I took up looking into the McCann case, and later the JonBenet case.
Since those sections have gone quiet I was "forced " to look into the Bamber case.
I don't say I have had any direction from the Lord to look into any particular aspect of this case, but the skills I've learned from the years of study of the other cases is where I'm coming from.
Like, looking at the alibis of the other people close to the family.
Using my skills as a verifier and a meat veterinarian when it comes to analysing crime scene photos.
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I'm more like a psychic than a detective. I pray for answers and if I feel that the Lord gives me one I'll try to turn that into real evidence. In the Watson case, I was told twice to "go help Scott for he is being convicted of a crime he did not do". It took me two years to get in a position to investigate the situation, and after 10 years I presented my findings to the Minister of Justice.
It was very frustrating to find that no one took any notice of my findings. So over the last few years, I have taken a rest from the case, just delving into it when it got newsworthy.
As far as being on the MOJ forum I took up looking into the McCann case, and later the JonBenet case.
Since those sections have gone quiet I was "forced " to look into the Bamber case.
I don't say I have had any direction from the Lord to look into any particular aspect of this case, but the skills I've learned from the years of study of the other cases is where I'm coming from.
Like, looking at the alibis of the other people close to the family.
Using my skills as a verifier and a meat veterinarian when it comes to analysing crime scene photos.
That’s interesting, Bob
Does the Lord give you answers by thought or by clues?
The Lord doesn’t give me any...why do you think He has chased you to sort this awful mess out? Is it because you’re more receptive to Him do you think? Or He trusts you to do the best job possible on his behalf?
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That’s interesting, Bob
Does the Lord give you answers by thought or by clues?
The Lord doesn’t give me any...why do you think He has chased you to sort this awful mess out? Is it because you’re more receptive to Him do you think? Or He trusts you to do the best job possible on his behalf?
Matthew 7
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye
shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh
findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
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That’s interesting, Bob
Does the Lord give you answers by thought or by clues?
The Lord doesn’t give me any...why do you think He has chased you to sort this awful mess out? Is it because you’re more receptive to Him do you think? Or He trusts you to do the best job possible on his behalf?
Earlier on there were two people claiming to have had premonitions in the Bamber case.
One was Colin Caffell, and the other (was it Mr. Nevill Bamber (I've forgotten exactly)), but to me, a premonition would be what I call "from the Lord".
Seeing the future or visions of the past are odd occurrences that are hard to explain.
I've wondered this myself but it was when I was around 16 years of age I became aware of what I call "a guardian angel" in that there was something that warned me of impending danger, and either I listened or ignored it to my hurt.
Does everyone get that? I learned to listen and it worked.
The odd thing was that I felt the Lord say to me that because I had worked so hard on the Scott Watson case I would have a long life, yet I nearly died from Covid 19 earlier this year, but now my strength is improving, so I'm still somewhat confident of a long life, but had I died it would have been less than average.
It is a strange world that I live in.
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Earlier on there were two people claiming to have had premonitions in the Bamber case.
One was Colin Caffell, and the other (was it Mr. Nevill Bamber (I've forgotten exactly)), but to me, a premonition would be what I call "from the Lord".
Seeing the future or visions of the past are odd occurrences that are hard to explain.
I've wondered this myself but it was when I was around 16 years of age I became aware of what I call "a guardian angel" in that there was something that warned me of impending danger, and either I listened or ignored it to my hurt.
Does everyone get that? I learned to listen and it worked.
The odd thing was that I felt the Lord say to me that because I had worked so hard on the Scott Watson case I would have a long life, yet I nearly died from Covid 19 earlier this year, but now my strength is improving, so I'm still somewhat confident of a long life, but had I died it would have been less than average.
It is a strange world that I live in.
Well the world is a better place with you in it, kid.
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Earlier on there were two people claiming to have had premonitions in the Bamber case.
One was Colin Caffell, and the other (was it Mr. Nevill Bamber (I've forgotten exactly)), but to me, a premonition would be what I call "from the Lord".
Seeing the future or visions of the past are odd occurrences that are hard to explain.
I've wondered this myself but it was when I was around 16 years of age I became aware of what I call "a guardian angel" in that there was something that warned me of impending danger, and either I listened or ignored it to my hurt.
Does everyone get that? I learned to listen and it worked.
The odd thing was that I felt the Lord say to me that because I had worked so hard on the Scott Watson case I would have a long life, yet I nearly died from Covid 19 earlier this year, but now my strength is improving, so I'm still somewhat confident of a long life, but had I died it would have been less than average.
It is a strange world that I live in.
I've experienced similar. However, I also find that these thoughts are informed by those previous experiences. They're frequently as a result of my own fears.
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I've experienced similar. However, I also find that these thoughts are informed by those previous experiences. They're frequently as a result of my own fears.
I don't take as many risks now so I'm not as aware of the feeling, it could be my own fears. But in the Watson case I was shown how the two people were killed and it was the mission to find out where that happened. I think I got close but things get tricky when you'd need to dig on another person's land.
What I'd tell people who knew the case, it really made them ask, where was I that day? They wanted to know my alibi. But I was in Whanganui 100's of km away.
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I don't take as many risks now so I'm not as aware of the feeling, it could be my own fears. But in the Watson case I was shown how the two people were killed and it was the mission to find out where that happened. I think I got close but things get tricky when you'd need to dig on another person's land.
What I'd tell people who knew the case, it really made them ask, where was I that day? They wanted to know my alibi. But I was in Whanganui 100's of km away.
Yeh! Of course *%87
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Yeh! Of course *%87
Fortunately, these things are rare events. I'd hate to have to deal with murders continuously. Most murders are solved without any dispute. A lot are probably never solved or even recognized as murder.
It is quite infrequent to get a case like Bambers that goes unresolved for 35 years!
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Fortunately, these things are rare events. I'd hate to have to deal with murders continuously. Most murders are solved without any dispute. A lot are probably never solved or even recognized as murder.
It is quite infrequent to get a case like Bambers that goes unresolved for 35 years!
Those who "know" he's guilty believe that it HAS been resolved, way back in 1986!
What is unusual, is that JB is still protesting his innocence after 35 years. Most convicted murderers admit their guilt eventually.
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Those who "know" he's guilty believe that it HAS been resolved, way back in 1986!
What is unusual, is that JB is still protesting his innocence after 35 years. Most convicted murderers admit their guilt eventually.
Is that a fact, I wonder, or just something you believe?
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Is that a fact, I wonder, or just something you believe?
It is what we are told, so we believe it.
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Those who "know" he's guilty believe that it HAS been resolved, way back in 1986!
What is unusual, is that JB is still protesting his innocence after 35 years. Most convicted murderers admit their guilt eventually.
Well he's managed to turn it in to a little cottage industry which has occupied him for decades.
And I think he continues to protest his innocence for a number of reasons, but one of the most compelling, in my opinion, is that there's mileage in the initial handling of the case and the fact that the evidence is circumstantial.
It's grasping at straws, but it also demonstrates that there's every chance that he's detached himself from the atrocity mentally, otherwise it would have consumed him by now. I also believe that this compartmentalisation started when he was stood outside the farmhouse with the police and saw the fruits of his labours come to fruition in ways he could only have hoped for - they initially bought his narrative wholesale. Now he doesn't 'think' he's an evil genius, he is one (in his eyes). The ineptitude of the police reinforced his story to everyone including himself.
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Well he's managed to turn it in to a little cottage industry which has occupied him for decades.
And I think he continues to protest his innocence for a number of reasons, but one of the most compelling, in my opinion, is that there's mileage in the initial handling of the case and the fact that the evidence is circumstantial.
It's grasping at straws, but it also demonstrates that there's every chance that he's detached himself from the atrocity mentally, otherwise it would have consumed him by now. I also believe that this compartmentalisation started when he was stood outside the farmhouse with the police and saw the fruits of his labours come to fruition in ways he could only have hoped for - they initially bought his narrative wholesale. Now he doesn't 'think' he's an evil genius, he is one (in his eyes). The ineptitude of the police reinforced his story to everyone including himself.
I think that is an excellent summation.
I also think he would rather not go down in history as the cold calculating killer of the two boys ... nobody makes excuses for a child killer.
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It is what we are told, so we believe it.
Do we? No need for cites anymore then I take it?
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Those who "know" he's guilty believe that it HAS been resolved, way back in 1986!
What is unusual, is that JB is still protesting his innocence after 35 years. Most convicted murderers admit their guilt eventually.
There are many who don't
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Well he's managed to turn it in to a little cottage industry which has occupied him for decades.
And I think he continues to protest his innocence for a number of reasons, but one of the most compelling, in my opinion, is that there's mileage in the initial handling of the case and the fact that the evidence is circumstantial.
It's grasping at straws, but it also demonstrates that there's every chance that he's detached himself from the atrocity mentally, otherwise it would have consumed him by now. I also believe that this compartmentalisation started when he was stood outside the farmhouse with the police and saw the fruits of his labours come to fruition in ways he could only have hoped for - they initially bought his narrative wholesale. Now he doesn't 'think' he's an evil genius, he is one (in his eyes). The ineptitude of the police reinforced his story to everyone including himself.
What sort of a genius gets himself banged up for 35 years with little chance of parole?
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Well he's managed to turn it in to a little cottage industry which has occupied him for decades.
And I think he continues to protest his innocence for a number of reasons, but one of the most compelling, in my opinion, is that there's mileage in the initial handling of the case and the fact that the evidence is circumstantial.
It's grasping at straws, but it also demonstrates that there's every chance that he's detached himself from the atrocity mentally, otherwise it would have consumed him by now. I also believe that this compartmentalisation started when he was stood outside the farmhouse with the police and saw the fruits of his labours come to fruition in ways he could only have hoped for - they initially bought his narrative wholesale. Now he doesn't 'think' he's an evil genius, he is one (in his eyes). The ineptitude of the police reinforced his story to everyone including himself.
I would go along with most of that.
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What sort of a genius gets himself banged up for 35 years with little chance of parole?
I didn't say he is a genius, he thinks himself one, or at least did, right up until he got sent down.
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Well he's managed to turn it in to a little cottage industry which has occupied him for decades.
And I think he continues to protest his innocence for a number of reasons, but one of the most compelling, in my opinion, is that there's mileage in the initial handling of the case and the fact that the evidence is circumstantial.
It's grasping at straws, but it also demonstrates that there's every chance that he's detached himself from the atrocity mentally, otherwise it would have consumed him by now. I also believe that this compartmentalisation started when he was stood outside the farmhouse with the police and saw the fruits of his labours come to fruition in ways he could only have hoped for - they initially bought his narrative wholesale. Now he doesn't 'think' he's an evil genius, he is one (in his eyes). The ineptitude of the police reinforced his story to everyone including himself.
Great possible explanations of why JB still protests innocence. I tend to think that, whether he is or he isn't, he genuinely believes he is.
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There are many who don't
Ok----could you give me some examples ? (Just interested).
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Ok----could you give me some examples ? (Just interested).
Ian Brady immediately springs to mind. What about Peter Sutcliffe ? There certainly aren't any I can think of who have played the system in the way that Bamber has. I think any who do appeal usually limited it to one attempt and then got on with it.
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I didn't say he is a genius, he thinks himself one, or at least did, right up until he got sent down.
I know you didn’t say he is a genius, but I can’t imagine what grounds Bamber would have for thinking himself a genius when he failed to pull off the crime of the century and get away with it.
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Ian Brady immediately springs to mind. What about Peter Sutcliffe ? There certainly aren't any I can think of who have played the system in the way that Bamber has. I think any who do appeal usually limited it to one attempt and then got on with it.
Ian Brady took pride in the fact he committed the murders, don’t know about Sutcliffe but I doubt he’s protesting his innocence.
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I know you didn’t say he is a genius, but I can’t imagine what grounds Bamber would have for thinking himself a genius when he failed to pull off the crime of the century and get away with it.
Wow. I was referring to his thought process at the time
Nobody, apart from maybe Bamber himself at the time thought / thinks he's a genius - as far as I know.
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Wow. I was referring to his thought process at the time
Nobody, apart from maybe Bamber himself at the time thought / thinks he's a genius - as far as I know.
Wow. Were you? Forgive me for not realising you were referring to his thought processes at the time when you wrote “Now he doesn't 'think' he's an evil genius, he is one (in his eyes)”. What a bloody idiot I am for not understanding plain English.
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Ian Brady immediately springs to mind. What about Peter Sutcliffe ? There certainly aren't any I can think of who have played the system in the way that Bamber has. I think any who do appeal usually limited it to one attempt and then got on with it.
I don’t recall Peter Sutcliffe trying to worm out of jail, but he did try to appeal against something — some years ago now, so I can’t remember what he was aggrieved about 😤
But the press did quote him as saying: “My trial was a farce!”
And he then said he intended to wear a “smart suit” if he won an appeal, so as to impress the judge 😌
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I don’t recall Peter Sutcliffe trying to worm out of jail, but he did try to appeal against something — some years ago now, so I can’t remember what he was aggrieved about 😤
But the press did quote him as saying: “My trial was a farce!”
And he then said he intended to wear a “smart suit” if he won an appeal, so as to impress the judge 😌
He didn't want to be a 'celeb' anymore ... but his leave to appeal was turned down apparently as a result of opting out of therapy sessions "he is not deemed to have come to terms with his vile crimes".
STILL DANGEROUS Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe’s request to be treated as a lower-risk prisoner turned down by prison bosses
The brutal killer will still be a 'Category A' prisoner, meaning he will miss out on perks and stay in tough HMP Frankland
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8955607/yorkshire-ripper-peter-sutcliffe-downgrade-rejected/
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He didn't want to be a 'celeb' anymore ... but his leave to appeal was turned down apparently as a result of opting out of therapy sessions "he is not deemed to have come to terms with his vile crimes".
STILL DANGEROUS Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe’s request to be treated as a lower-risk prisoner turned down by prison bosses
The brutal killer will still be a 'Category A' prisoner, meaning he will miss out on perks and stay in tough HMP Frankland
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8955607/yorkshire-ripper-peter-sutcliffe-downgrade-rejected/
I'm guessing Jeremy will never have opted in to therapy sessions?
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Ian Brady immediately springs to mind. What about Peter Sutcliffe ? There certainly aren't any I can think of who have played the system in the way that Bamber has. I think any who do appeal usually limited it to one attempt and then got on with it.
Peter Sutcliffe did admit to his crimes, and gave a full statement to the police before his trial. I remember he also told his wife, who hadn't known anything about what he'd been up to. If I recall, the "dilemma" posed by him, was whether he was "mad" or "bad". He was originally sent to prison, then to Broadmoor, diagnosed with schizophrenia. I believe he was returned to prison in recent years, as his health condition was being managed(could be wrong).
Ian Brady, I believe, was taken back to the moors, to help police search for the grave of Keith Bennett, so, presumably, he must have admitted to killing Keith?? He couldn't find it. Some people think he withheld the information deliberately-----or perhaps he just didn't remember. Who knows? Myra Hindley made a full confession, albeit rather late in the day, and was also taken back to the moors to help search for the missing bodies. She was able to pinpoint Pauline Reade's, but not Keith Bennett's.
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Peter Sutcliffe did admit to his crimes, and gave a full statement to the police before his trial. I remember he also told his wife, who hadn't known anything about what he'd been up to. If I recall, the "dilemma" posed by him, was whether he was "mad" or "bad". He was originally sent to prison, then to Broadmoor, diagnosed with schizophrenia. I believe he was returned to prison in recent years, as his health condition was being managed(could be wrong).
Ian Brady, I believe, was taken back to the moors, to help police search for the grave of Keith Bennett, so, presumably, he must have admitted to killing Keith?? He couldn't find it. Some people think he withheld the information deliberately-----or perhaps he just didn't remember. Who knows? Myra Hindley made a full confession, albeit rather late in the day, and was also taken back to the moors to help search for the missing bodies. She was able to pinpoint Pauline Reade's, but not Keith Bennett's.
Because convicted killer Bamber didn't confess to his crimes makes him no less evil than those two as far as I am concerned and any other psychotic killer.
Indeed, in my opinion he shares many of the controlling traits shown by Brady. Both have shown themselves to be masters of manipulation from behind bars as they still orchestrate the lives of their living victims.
Brady knew he was never getting out but he played and manipulated Winnie Jonson and her family for many years and even I think after his death.
Similarly Bamber I think evidences his control over whether or not those most directly affected by his heinous crime are to be allowed peace to get on with their lives without reference to him.
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He didn't want to be a 'celeb' anymore ... but his leave to appeal was turned down apparently as a result of opting out of therapy sessions "he is not deemed to have come to terms with his vile crimes".
STILL DANGEROUS Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe’s request to be treated as a lower-risk prisoner turned down by prison bosses
The brutal killer will still be a 'Category A' prisoner, meaning he will miss out on perks and stay in tough HMP Frankland
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8955607/yorkshire-ripper-peter-sutcliffe-downgrade-rejected/
Thank you for that link, Brietta 👍
I’d missed this latest moan of his: he had one about 10 years ago too...not sure what he was outraged about at that time, but do remember him saying how a smart suit would impress the judge
This excerpt of what he said taken from the link you posted resonates with Jeremy Bamber: the same sense of entitlement; the outrage at being wronged 😤; annoyed that he — the most important person of all, HIM — wasn’t present when being discussed.
Jeremy Bamber and Peter Sutcliffe both display their psychopathy in such similar ways.
Sutcliffe says:
“ “It is outrageous and I am angry, as they are just leaving me to rot.
“They have completely ignored the 32 years I spent at Broadmoor and all the therapy I had there.
“You would think you would be able to attend your own Cat A meeting, but they prefer to keep me in the dark”
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I'm guessing Jeremy will never have opted in to therapy sessions?
He can’t do, as he refuses to admit what he did.
Mind you, what’s the point of giving him therapy?
He’s never going to be released, and therapy doesn’t work on psychopaths.
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Because convicted killer Bamber didn't confess to his crimes makes him no less evil than those two as far as I am concerned and any other psychotic killer.
Indeed, in my opinion he shares many of the controlling traits shown by Brady. Both have shown themselves to be masters of manipulation from behind bars as they still orchestrate the lives of their living victims.
Brady knew he was never getting out but he played and manipulated Winnie Jonson and her family for many years and even I think after his death.
Similarly Bamber I think evidences his control over whether or not those most directly affected by his heinous crime are to be allowed peace to get on with their lives without reference to him.
I agree entirely, Brietta.
All psychopaths like to wield their power, however limited — it gives them a sadistic kick
Brady got a thrill out of tormenting poor Winnie by pretending to try and remember where he’d buried her young son. If he did remember the exact spot he’d never have shown the police when they took him there — he didn’t want Winnie to lay her child to rest. He wanted to keep that “power” over her.
Jeremy was equally sick when he got Trudie to read out that insane letter by June and Nevill’s graveside. He used them even then, as their ashes lay beneath that grave. But being thick, he failed to see how everyone could see through what he was trying to do. If he doesn’t think high ranking police, psychiatrists, barristers and judges haven’t seen that, he’s even more stupid than he comes across.
That act alone will have determined he’ll never be granted another appeal.
He was almost taking the piss out of everyone without realising it.
But being a psycho he can’t see that...
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I agree entirely, Brietta.
All psychopaths like to wield their power, however limited — it gives them a sadistic kick
Brady got a thrill out of tormenting poor Winnie by pretending to try and remember where he’d buried her young son. If he did remember the exact spot he’d never have shown the police when they took him there — he didn’t want Winnie to lay her child to rest. He wanted to keep that “power” over her.
Jeremy was equally sick when he got Trudie to read out that insane letter by June and Nevill’s graveside. He used them even then, as their ashes lay beneath that grave. But being thick, he failed to see how everyone could see through what he was trying to do. If he doesn’t think high ranking police, psychiatrists, barristers and judges haven’t seen that, he’s even more stupid than he comes across.
That act alone will have determined he’ll never be granted another appeal.
He was almost taking the piss out of everyone without realising it.
But being a psycho he can’t see that...
But Spy, you know what a great practical joker he is.............
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Because convicted killer Bamber didn't confess to his crimes makes him no less evil than those two as far as I am concerned and any other psychotic killer.
Indeed, in my opinion he shares many of the controlling traits shown by Brady. Both have shown themselves to be masters of manipulation from behind bars as they still orchestrate the lives of their living victims.
Brady knew he was never getting out but he played and manipulated Winnie Jonson and her family for many years and even I think after his death.
Similarly Bamber I think evidences his control over whether or not those most directly affected by his heinous crime are to be allowed peace to get on with their lives without reference to him.
If I were as convinced as you are that JB is guilty, then I would agree with everything you say!
Problem is, I'm not anything like as convinced re JB's guilt as I am re that of Brady and Sutcliffe.
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But Spy, you know what a great practical joker he is.............
Yes, and Holly whoops at what a practical joker he was...
Like when he put live rats in his pocket for June to touch
A real fun boy!
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Yes, and Holly whoops at what a practical joker he was...
Like when he put live rats in his pocket for June to touch
A real fun boy!
I think the rats were in a car in a bag. June's car or Barbara's? It's not clear. Who did it? Well we know that Nevill was aware that Barbara was scared of rodents; he found it highly amusing when she leapt onto a chair in the office at the sight of a mouse.
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Yes, and Holly whoops at what a practical joker he was...
Like when he put live rats in his pocket for June to touch
A real fun boy!
He did similar with me. He sent a card with butterflies on. When I replied I told him I had a phobia about moths and a liitle frightened of butterflies as they remind me of moths. He then sent another card with butterflies on! 8)><(
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He did similar with me. He sent a card with butterflies on. When I replied I told him I had a phobia about moths and a liitle frightened of butterflies as they remind me of moths. He then sent another card with butterflies on! 8)><(
Maybe they were there only cards he had?
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Maybe they were there only cards he had?
He had a much nicer one for Holly's next birthday...
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Maybe they were there only cards he had?
I was thinking it was evidence of psychopathy and he was unable to empathise and feel my fear or liked the idea of frightening me!
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I was thinking it was evidence of psychopathy and he was unable to empathise and feel my fear or liked the idea of frightening me!
So was I but it begs the question of why you would want to help a psychopath gain freedom?
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Maybe they were there only cards he had?
Or MAYBE he's twisted, spiteful and utterly despises the very people who are trying to help him.
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Or MAYBE he's twisted, spiteful and utterly despises the very people who are trying to help him.
That goes without saying @)(++(*
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Or MAYBE he's twisted, spiteful and utterly despises the very people who are trying to help him.
Maybe, TOO, he knows, gut deep, that he's safer in prison, as a potential MOJ, than being let out on a technicality, as a child killer, ergo he sabotages any attempt to get him released, if it sniffs of having a chance of working. He'd sooner offer stuff like Ainsley creeping back out of retirement to 'borrow' stuff held in secret, and destroying it?
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That goes without saying @)(++(*
It does beg the question though that if Haoly has considered him being a psychopath, why is she trying to help him?
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He had a much nicer one for Holly's next birthday...
@)(++(* @)(++(*
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Maybe, TOO, he knows, gut deep, that he's safer in prison, as a potential MOJ, than being let out on a technicality, as a child killer, ergo he sabotages any attempt to get him released, if it sniffs of having a chance of working. He'd sooner offer stuff like Ainsley creeping back out of retirement to 'borrow' stuff held in secret, and destroying it?
Interesting point!
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I was thinking it was evidence of psychopathy and he was unable to empathise and feel my fear or liked the idea of frightening me!
Didn’t Hannibal Lecter have a thing about moths?
Dr. Hannibal Lecter ( Anthony Hopkins ):
"The significance of the moth is change. Caterpillar into chrysalis or pupa, from thence into beauty. Our Billy wants to change, too."
Billy being another serial killer of course.
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This whole section of the book details the background to Sheila's psychology (from the author's POV at least).
"Essex police had spoken with Sheila’s ex-boyfriend, 41 year old Farhad (Freddie) Emami, who admitted there were times with Sheila when he’d been terrified for his own safety. It was acknowledged that Sheila felt a lot of suppressed anger towards June. One of Sheila’s girlfriends said Sheila had confided that her adoptive mother had said she was unfit to look after the twins. Freddie reported that Sheila disliked June deeply for routinely preaching to her about her immoral life. Sheila should always remember God, June told her.
Various witnesses would comment upon the fact that in the autumn of 1984, Sheila changed. ‘She became extremely depressed,’ one witness reported, ‘and withdrew into herself.’ To others Sheila expressed ‘morbid thoughts about killing herself or the boys.’ There was the occasion when one of the twins fell out of a London taxi on the way home from a visit to White House Farm. The boy wasn’t seriously hurt but Sheila was devastated. She told friends that rather than looking after her children she’d been preoccupied with her mother’s religious ravings. Sheila was constantly slipping back into that twilight world of nervous tension and paranoia. Her temper was erratic and she had violent outbursts, often screaming so loudly that other residents were woken up by the noise. These terror attacks struck Sheila again and again, usually in the early hours of the morning. It was three weeks after the taxi accident that Sheila suffered her first mental breakdown.
An example of Sheila’s behaviour in the early summer of 1985, only months before the murders, illustrates her state of mind. Freddie later explained in a lengthy statement to Essex police that he had called at Sheila’s flat and found her inexplicably ‘uptight and panicky’. In Freddie’s presence Sheila telephoned a friend - Tara - and was forced to apologize about a religious book that June had recently left at Tara’s house. While on the phone the call was disconnected. Sheila went nuts, telling Freddie that her phone was bugged. ‘She became like someone possessed,’ Freddie told police, ‘ranting and raving. She was striking herself and beating the wall with her fists. I tried to calm her but she didn’t seem to hear me.’
Sheila rambled obsessively about God and the Devil, insisting that God was on her side, whatever her mother claimed. God loved her, said Sheila.
The servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.
Sheila picked up the telephone and called Colin Caffell’s mother, Mrs Brencher, but asked to speak to Dr Ferguson. She then started striking herself and yelling obscenities. Mrs Brencher rushed to the flat. Sheila told the horrified onlookers that she was hearing voices, sometimes from God. She added that it was her destiny to put the world to rights. As Sheila’s own GP, Dr Angeloglou, was on holiday another doctor was called. Sheila confessed to hearing voices. The doctor said he would give her an injection but Sheila refused. He prescribed some pills instead, and Freddie went to the nearest chemist while Mrs Brencher arranged for Colin to collect the twins. Tara’s husband also arrived at the flat to pick up his daughter who was staying with Sheila. Freddie was concerned that Sheila ‘may use violence towards someone.’ Returning from the chemist Freddie met Mrs Brencher at the front door; Sheila had kicked her out.
Sheila began raving again, trance-like, beating herself with her fists, and screaming out loud while tears ran down her face. Freddie called for another doctor and this time one of Dr Angeloglou’s partners arrived. Sheila refused to let him examine her, shouting that she was being poisoned. ‘By this time,’ Freddie Emami recalled in his police statement, ‘she had become completely irrational. The doctor eventually left without being able to do anything.’ A third doctor was summoned, but also failed to help. In desperation, Freddie phoned Nevill to tell him that his daughter was going crazy. Nevill said that he would drive to London first thing in the morning to collect her, but insisted he couldn’t come any sooner.
‘Sheila was behaving like a person possessed, rambling about the Devil and God.’ Desperate, Freddie fetched Sheila’s next-door neighbour to help him calm her down. Nothing worked until the next morning, when the doorbell rang and Nevill appeared on the scene. ‘When her father walked into the flat,’ Freddie said, ‘Sheila became a different person. She spoke to him in a calm and collected manner. I couldn’t believe the change in the girl.’ When told about the incident months later, Sheila was unable to remember anything about it.
The deterioration in Sheila’s mental state was so marked she was immediately readmitted to St Andrew’s hospital. When she was discharged three weeks later her friend Tara said that Sheila was better but ‘not the same person.’
I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wished it were already kindled!
Fourteen year-old Helen Grimster, a cousin to Sheila, found her not only strange but frightening. One day at White House Farm, Helen Grimster had to endure an hour-long sermon about religion, witchcraft and suicide. Sheila smoked marijuana and asked Helen if she had ever tried taking drugs. Then Sheila’s mind turned to suicide.
‘She asked me if I’d ever thought of killing myself,’ Helen recalled, ‘and she said that she contemplated suicide on more than one occasion.’ Sheila told the uneasy teenager that she thought she was a white witch and it was her job to get rid of the evil in the world. June had told her that she had lost her soul, and had urged Sheila to be more religious.
But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
A student neighbour in Maida Vale said of Sheila: ‘She had those wild staring eyes. I thought she was either the sickest woman in the world, or she was ‘on’ something.’
One of Sheila’s friends, Sandra Elston, who accepted Sheila as a borderline paranoid schizophrenic, recalled the night (ten weeks before the murders) when Sheila was convinced that Freddie was the Devil and that the CIA was following her. Only two weeks before the murders, Colin Caffell told Sandra that he was worried about Sheila’s mental health.
Seven days before the White House Farm tragedy, Sheila took herself and the twins to a friend’s house in London. Also present at the social gathering was a nurse, Caroline Heath, who noticed Sheila was ‘fidgety and on edge’. Caroline’s training led to her to believe Sheila was schizophrenic. ‘The impression I got of her that afternoon was that she appeared very frightened and paranoid.’ When Caroline heard about the murders a week later, she said: ‘I can’t say it was completely unexpected.’
In court, Dr Ferguson said: ‘Sheila had a very strong belief that she had evil in her mind and her adopted mother also had evil in her mind and they both needed the evil to be cleansed… She was… caught up with the idea that the Devil had taken her over and given her the power to direct the Devil’s evil not only on to other people but particularly her twin sons… She had complex ideas about having sex with her twin sons. She thought her sons would seduce her and saw the devil in both of them. In particular, she thought Nicholas was a woman-[ censored word ] and a potential murderer.’ Merely a matter of days before the shootings, a psychiatric report noted that her illness was centred on her children whom she referred to ‘the Devil’s children.’ Dr Ferguson also wrote in his report that Sheila had expressed suicidal ideation.
A number of Essex detectives reflected on all this. They were unaware of the hideous case in America where Richard Nelson shot dead his two children, his wife and then himself because he believed they were all evil and he needed to make a sacrifice to God, but few doubted Sheila was capable of the atrocities of August 7. None of these complex motives applied to Jeremy; if the son did it, he did it for the money.
According to Jeremy, a discussion had taken place on the eve of the deaths, some time before 10 p.m. during which it was suggested that Sheila's two sons should be fostered on a part time basis due to her illness, or that another alternative for their care should be considered. There’s no doubt that such a discussion could have sparked a schizophrenic episode. Or was that conversation a clever concoction on Jeremy’s behalf, as Stan Jones insisted?"
http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.com/2011/02/innocent-man-part-10.html
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This whole section of the book details the background to Sheila's psychology (from the author's POV at least).
"Essex police had spoken with Sheila’s ex-boyfriend, 41 year old Farhad (Freddie) Emami, who admitted there were times with Sheila when he’d been terrified for his own safety. It was acknowledged that Sheila felt a lot of suppressed anger towards June. One of Sheila’s girlfriends said Sheila had confided that her adoptive mother had said she was unfit to look after the twins. Freddie reported that Sheila disliked June deeply for routinely preaching to her about her immoral life. Sheila should always remember God, June told her.
Various witnesses would comment upon the fact that in the autumn of 1984, Sheila changed. ‘She became extremely depressed,’ one witness reported, ‘and withdrew into herself.’ To others Sheila expressed ‘morbid thoughts about killing herself or the boys.’ There was the occasion when one of the twins fell out of a London taxi on the way home from a visit to White House Farm. The boy wasn’t seriously hurt but Sheila was devastated. She told friends that rather than looking after her children she’d been preoccupied with her mother’s religious ravings. Sheila was constantly slipping back into that twilight world of nervous tension and paranoia. Her temper was erratic and she had violent outbursts, often screaming so loudly that other residents were woken up by the noise. These terror attacks struck Sheila again and again, usually in the early hours of the morning. It was three weeks after the taxi accident that Sheila suffered her first mental breakdown.
An example of Sheila’s behaviour in the early summer of 1985, only months before the murders, illustrates her state of mind. Freddie later explained in a lengthy statement to Essex police that he had called at Sheila’s flat and found her inexplicably ‘uptight and panicky’. In Freddie’s presence Sheila telephoned a friend - Tara - and was forced to apologize about a religious book that June had recently left at Tara’s house. While on the phone the call was disconnected. Sheila went nuts, telling Freddie that her phone was bugged. ‘She became like someone possessed,’ Freddie told police, ‘ranting and raving. She was striking herself and beating the wall with her fists. I tried to calm her but she didn’t seem to hear me.’
Sheila rambled obsessively about God and the Devil, insisting that God was on her side, whatever her mother claimed. God loved her, said Sheila.
The servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.
Sheila picked up the telephone and called Colin Caffell’s mother, Mrs Brencher, but asked to speak to Dr Ferguson. She then started striking herself and yelling obscenities. Mrs Brencher rushed to the flat. Sheila told the horrified onlookers that she was hearing voices, sometimes from God. She added that it was her destiny to put the world to rights. As Sheila’s own GP, Dr Angeloglou, was on holiday another doctor was called. Sheila confessed to hearing voices. The doctor said he would give her an injection but Sheila refused. He prescribed some pills instead, and Freddie went to the nearest chemist while Mrs Brencher arranged for Colin to collect the twins. Tara’s husband also arrived at the flat to pick up his daughter who was staying with Sheila. Freddie was concerned that Sheila ‘may use violence towards someone.’ Returning from the chemist Freddie met Mrs Brencher at the front door; Sheila had kicked her out.
Sheila began raving again, trance-like, beating herself with her fists, and screaming out loud while tears ran down her face. Freddie called for another doctor and this time one of Dr Angeloglou’s partners arrived. Sheila refused to let him examine her, shouting that she was being poisoned. ‘By this time,’ Freddie Emami recalled in his police statement, ‘she had become completely irrational. The doctor eventually left without being able to do anything.’ A third doctor was summoned, but also failed to help. In desperation, Freddie phoned Nevill to tell him that his daughter was going crazy. Nevill said that he would drive to London first thing in the morning to collect her, but insisted he couldn’t come any sooner.
‘Sheila was behaving like a person possessed, rambling about the Devil and God.’ Desperate, Freddie fetched Sheila’s next-door neighbour to help him calm her down. Nothing worked until the next morning, when the doorbell rang and Nevill appeared on the scene. ‘When her father walked into the flat,’ Freddie said, ‘Sheila became a different person. She spoke to him in a calm and collected manner. I couldn’t believe the change in the girl.’ When told about the incident months later, Sheila was unable to remember anything about it.
The deterioration in Sheila’s mental state was so marked she was immediately readmitted to St Andrew’s hospital. When she was discharged three weeks later her friend Tara said that Sheila was better but ‘not the same person.’
I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wished it were already kindled!
Fourteen year-old Helen Grimster, a cousin to Sheila, found her not only strange but frightening. One day at White House Farm, Helen Grimster had to endure an hour-long sermon about religion, witchcraft and suicide. Sheila smoked marijuana and asked Helen if she had ever tried taking drugs. Then Sheila’s mind turned to suicide.
‘She asked me if I’d ever thought of killing myself,’ Helen recalled, ‘and she said that she contemplated suicide on more than one occasion.’ Sheila told the uneasy teenager that she thought she was a white witch and it was her job to get rid of the evil in the world. June had told her that she had lost her soul, and had urged Sheila to be more religious.
But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
A student neighbour in Maida Vale said of Sheila: ‘She had those wild staring eyes. I thought she was either the sickest woman in the world, or she was ‘on’ something.’
One of Sheila’s friends, Sandra Elston, who accepted Sheila as a borderline paranoid schizophrenic, recalled the night (ten weeks before the murders) when Sheila was convinced that Freddie was the Devil and that the CIA was following her. Only two weeks before the murders, Colin Caffell told Sandra that he was worried about Sheila’s mental health.
Seven days before the White House Farm tragedy, Sheila took herself and the twins to a friend’s house in London. Also present at the social gathering was a nurse, Caroline Heath, who noticed Sheila was ‘fidgety and on edge’. Caroline’s training led to her to believe Sheila was schizophrenic. ‘The impression I got of her that afternoon was that she appeared very frightened and paranoid.’ When Caroline heard about the murders a week later, she said: ‘I can’t say it was completely unexpected.’
In court, Dr Ferguson said: ‘Sheila had a very strong belief that she had evil in her mind and her adopted mother also had evil in her mind and they both needed the evil to be cleansed… She was… caught up with the idea that the Devil had taken her over and given her the power to direct the Devil’s evil not only on to other people but particularly her twin sons… She had complex ideas about having sex with her twin sons. She thought her sons would seduce her and saw the devil in both of them. In particular, she thought Nicholas was a woman-[ censored word ] and a potential murderer.’ Merely a matter of days before the shootings, a psychiatric report noted that her illness was centred on her children whom she referred to ‘the Devil’s children.’ Dr Ferguson also wrote in his report that Sheila had expressed suicidal ideation.
A number of Essex detectives reflected on all this. They were unaware of the hideous case in America where Richard Nelson shot dead his two children, his wife and then himself because he believed they were all evil and he needed to make a sacrifice to God, but few doubted Sheila was capable of the atrocities of August 7. None of these complex motives applied to Jeremy; if the son did it, he did it for the money.
According to Jeremy, a discussion had taken place on the eve of the deaths, some time before 10 p.m. during which it was suggested that Sheila's two sons should be fostered on a part time basis due to her illness, or that another alternative for their care should be considered. There’s no doubt that such a discussion could have sparked a schizophrenic episode. Or was that conversation a clever concoction on Jeremy’s behalf, as Stan Jones insisted?"
http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.com/2011/02/innocent-man-part-10.html
Has this "book" been published anywhere other than on an internet blog spot?
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Good question, but links to the free version are various.
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Has this "book" been published anywhere other than on an internet blog spot?
No. It's provenance is questionable.
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Good question, but links to the free version are various.
I couldn't find a paper version of the book on the internet.
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No. It's provenance is questionable.
Now, what do you mean by that?
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Good question, but links to the free version are various.
I never believe anything from a source such as this without very close scrutiny. The internet is awash with rubbish which the un-discerning turn into factoid depending on how often it is repeated.
It is, in my opinion on a par with photo-shopped or enhanced photographs.
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I never believe anything from a source such as this without very close scrutiny. The internet is awash with rubbish which the un-discerning turn into factoid depending on how often it is repeated.
It is, in my opinion on a par with photo-shopped or enhanced photographs.
Keep going with this, Brietta. You're getting what I mean.
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Has this "book" been published anywhere other than on an internet blog spot?
No, it's from Mr T's site.
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I never believe anything from a source such as this without very close scrutiny. The internet is awash with rubbish which the un-discerning turn into factoid depending on how often it is repeated.
It is, in my opinion on a par with photo-shopped or enhanced photographs.
That might be your standard but whether the text is published in hard copy or a blog the legalities are much the same. And even if it is presented as fiction because the real names are used the facts have to be able to stand scrutiny. From what I have seen so far it would be classed as fair belief as to be the truth.
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That might be your standard but whether the text is published in hard copy or a blog the legalities are much the same. And even if it is presented as fiction because the real names are used the facts have to be able to stand scrutiny. From what I have seen so far it would be classed as fair belief as to be the truth.
Bearing in mind that book publishers strictly adhere to libel laws ... might I respectfully suggest you write to the internet publisher and ask why he confines his book to the internet for free instead of finding a publisher to publish it and donating any profit made from the sale to his favourite charity.
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Bearing in mind that book publishers strictly adhere to libel laws ... might I respectfully suggest you write to the internet publisher and ask why he confines his book to the internet for free instead of finding a publisher to publish it and donating any profit made from the sale to his favourite charity.
Sounds fun!
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I think the rats were in a car in a bag. June's car or Barbara's? It's not clear. Who did it? Well we know that Nevill was aware that Barbara was scared of rodents; he found it highly amusing when she leapt onto a chair in the office at the sight of a mouse.
No, he put them in his pocket. Live rats.
June was terrified of them and he purposely tricked her into touching them. You think that’s fun?
When Nevill found it funny that Barbara stood on a chair screaming when a mouse ran into the office, that’s a totally different scenario! I hate rodents, but if I saw someone standing on a chair when a mouse ran in I’d laugh too...it doesn’t look funny.
What is NOT funny when a teenage boy seeks out baby rats, puts them in his jacket pocket, walks in to his mum who has a terrifying fear of them, and forces her her to put her hands on them unwittingly. BIG difference!
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He did similar with me. He sent a card with butterflies on. When I replied I told him I had a phobia about moths and a liitle frightened of butterflies as they remind me of moths. He then sent another card with butterflies on! 8)><(
Maybe he forgot?
Doesn’t he have about 50 letters he has to reply to each week? Or maybe he gets his “office” to send replies ... @)(++(*
Was it you he thanked for the stamps you hadn’t sent him?😂
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No, he put them in his pocket. Live rats.
June was terrified of them and he purposely tricked her into touching them. You think that’s fun?
When Nevill found it funny that Barbara stood on a chair screaming when a mouse ran into the office, that’s a totally different scenario! I hate rodents, but if I saw someone standing on a chair when a mouse ran in I’d laugh too...it doesn’t look funny.
What is NOT funny when a teenage boy seeks out baby rats, puts them in his jacket pocket, walks in to his mum who has a terrifying fear of them, and forces her her to put her hands on them unwittingly. BIG difference!
My information came from CAL Kindle ed p136/7. It says "Barbara rarely found his pranks - such as a wriggling bag of rats smuggled into her car - amusing" No mention of Jeremy Bamber's age, the age of the rats, a pocket or of anyone being forced to touch them.
If you have a source for your different information please provide it. Please note that posting opinion as fact is not acceptable.
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My information came from CAL Kindle ed p136/7. It says "Barbara rarely found his pranks - such as a wriggling bag of rats smuggled into her car - amusing" No mention of Jeremy Bamber's age, the age of the rats, a pocket or of anyone being forced to touch them.
If you have a source for your different information please provide it. Please note that posting opinion as fact is not acceptable.
There must be more than one story going around for I've read about both versions of it.
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There must be more than one story going around for I've read about both versions of it.
I've read one version and provided a cite. If you've read a different one I would appreciate your cite.
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I've read one version and provided a cite. If you've read a different one I would appreciate your cite.
It just that when I read something it is not always obvious where to retain that fact, but I do recall both these stories. They are only stories for they are recounted for us.