Prosecution evidence?

[Wonderfulspam]

What is your opinion based on? I had assumed that they were guilty as well until I started looking at the actual evidence... And discovered there was nothing material of any significance.

Have you seen Joana recently?

[Redblossom]

Have you seen Joana recently?

Sadie has..shes in that  photo of madeleine and joana taken in morrocco lololol

http://metro.co.uk/2007/09/25/girl-in-moroccan-photo-is-not-madeleine-174924/

Joana in orange top,sadie said her legs were right, and maddie n the back of the mother, sorted

legs
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2853.msg106782#msg106782


 

sad sad and sadder

[Carana]

Have you seen Joana recently?

What's that supposed to mean?

She might be dead, but who was looking for her after the first few days? Who, in her family, had the means to carry on searching for her? If she's not dead, she'd be nearly 18. How would anyone recognise her? The only hope, if she's not dead, is that she'll piece together her memories and try to find her roots some day.

[Carana]

I see nothing at all to support your extraordinary view. Neither did the justice system. The pair are/were the most horrible sounding people. The child was treated appalllingly.

Of course criminals who want to get away with murder are going to lie and try to frame other people That's what criminals do.

"Guilhermino da Encarnação: "This is extremely difficult because, in 30 years of criminal investigation, I've never seen the confession of such a serious crime without the arguidos saying they were tortured, attacked or raped so that this, for us police officers, and I tell you, unfortunately, it has become the norm, natural. Therefore I don't give it a lot of credence."

Kate McCann chose to bring up this case in her book, in order to cast doubt on Amaral, She should have looked a bit more closely at the behaviour of the murdered child's mother and the way this child was neglected.

It says a great deal about the McCann's lack of integrity, among other things, that they tried to use this case as a way of discrediting Amaral. A great deal.

There is not a single thing I have read about the case that leads me to a conclusion that there has been a miscarriage of justice.

If they had cctv images of police interrogations there wouldn't be this issue. It has recently been recommended (as I posted on an earlier thread) at least concerning formal interviews, but the police want to know where the funds would come from.

In the meantime, anyone can accuse anyone of misbehaviour. Even that recommendation doesn't cover informal or semi-formal interviews in a police station or elsewhere.

[sadie]

I see nothing at all to support your extraordinary view. Neither did the justice system. The pair are/were the most horrible sounding people. The child was treated appalllingly.

Of course criminals who want to get away with murder are going to lie and try to frame other people That's what criminals do.

 "Guilhermino da Encarnação: "This is extremely difficult because, in 30 years of criminal investigation, I've never seen the confession of such a serious crime without the arguidos saying they were tortured, attacked or raped so that this, for us police officers, and I tell you, unfortunately, it has become the norm, natural. Therefore I don't give it a lot of credence."

Kate McCann chose to bring up this case in her book, in order to cast doubt on Amaral, She should have looked a bit more closely at the behaviour of the murdered child's mother and the way this child was neglected.

It says a great deal about the McCann's lack of integrity, among other things, that they tried to use this case as a way of discrediting Amaral. A great deal.

There is not a single thing I have read about the case that leads me to a conclusion that there has been a miscarriage of justice.

Joana Pictures
1)
http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/joanacipriano101.jpg
Joana at school.  Beautifully presented and slim but not at all underweight imo.  This photo no longer shows for some reason, but below is poor quality version.  Have had to really search the internet for this.  Before it was easy to find.  Same with some other of the photos.
 
http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/joana-cipriano-joana-cipriano-eight-year-old-portuguese-girl-missing-since-september-12-2004-file-photos-069wCn.jpg

 
 
2)
http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/joanacipriano2.jpg
  Joana in ?dressing gown?  Looking very plump and happy, at home, I think
 
3)
http://www.asmeninasquevieramdasestrelas.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/websiteJoana.1.jpg.w560h560.jpg

At a cafe with Leonor and Leandro.  Looking happy enough.
 
 
5)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_0PRT7WgBWRI/TNCBrxOmg1I/AAAAAAAAABE/S-iPU7aKDls/s400/Image+4+Joana+Cipriano+(514+x+600).jpg
Cropped version of same photo as above .  Joana on her own in cafe.  Nicely dressed, plump and looking happy enough.
 
6)
http://www.asmeninasquevieramdasestrelas.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/websiteJoana.3.jpg.w560h560.jpg

Joana looking very happy at her baby siblings (?sisters) first birthday with sister and Leandro and birthday cake, at home
 
They are not paupers or malnourished in any way.  Nor lacking in love and attention.  Happy kids, both nicely dressed with an attentive and proud daddy.

See the healthy salad in the foreground?
 
7)
http://www.asmeninasquevieramdasestrelas.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/JoanaCipriano.home.jpg
  Enlargement of above just showing a really happy Joana , at home with birthday cake.
 
 
 
 
8)
http://www.asmeninasquevieramdasestrelas.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/websiteJoana.4.jpg.w560h373.jpg

 
A happy Joana with friends or family and ?younger siblings? at ?home?
 
 
9)
http://www.asmeninasquevieramdasestrelas.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/websiteJoana.5.jpg.w560h373.jpg
http://marcosaragaocorreia.fatcow.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/JoanaCipriano.5.jpg

 
Enlargement of previous photo.  Joana looks well fed and very happy
 
 
 
 
10)
http://i.prphotos.com/t/3063/SPX-013063/Joana-Cipriano-Joana-Cipriano,-Eight-Year-Old-Portuguese-Girl,-Missing-Since-September-12,-2004---File-Photos.jpg

PJ photo of Joana with face screwed up.  Marcos Aragao Correira was annoyed that the PJ chose than one to show Joana ; he felt they deliberately chose the plainest of all the photos.
 
 
 
12)
http://i.prphotos.com/i/SPX-013074/Joana-Cipriano-Joana-Cipriano,-Eight-Year-Old-Portuguese-Girl,-Missing-Since-September-12,-2004---File-Photos.jpg

 
 
 
13)
http://www.asmeninasquevieramdasestrelas.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/Jornal24horas11Maio2009p5.jpg.w560h771.jpg

Leonor on bed with toddler and Joanas picture.  Room simple but clean.  Mother and little one dressed fine.  Little one looks healthy and content
 
 
 
Cipriano/Silva Home
 
1)
http://i.prphotos.com/t/3076/SPX-013076/Joana-Ciprianos-Home-Joana-Cipriano,-Eight-Year-Old-Portuguese-Girl,-Missing-Since-September-12,-2004---File-Photos.jpg
Joana Ciprianos home.  Outside view
 
 
2)
http://i.prphotos.com/mas_assets/prphotos/images/recent-thumb.png

Cipriano/Silva Home.  Kitchen.  Neat, tidy and clean


Oh, I see this last photo showing a tidy, clean, immaculate (if simple) kitchen /living room has been struck by the phantom image destroyer... YET AGAIN !
The Phantom image destroyer seems to get rid of any evidence that proves the disgusting disinformation propaganda put about is lies.

But sufficient peeps on here and elsewhere have seen the kichen/ sitting room to know how claen, tidy and well kept it was.



Yeah, it really looks as tho  The child was treated appalllingly.

Wrong again j.rob.  You have been taken for a sucker like loads of people.  Give up if you cant get it right.  It is not fair to keep propagating lies and myths.

I have videos and more images if you need further convincing that Joana was well fed, and very happy.  She deeply loved her Mum and family. 

What evil propaganda has been put about ... and how powerful it has proved.

You are adding to it.

[Carana]

False confessions and incriminating statements lead to wrongful convictions in approximately 25 percent of cases. Looking only at the homicide cases, false confessions are the leading contributor to wrongful convictions, contributing to 64 (62%) of the 104 homicide wrongful convictions that were overturned by DNA evidence, where as misidentifications contributed to only 32 (31%) of the homicide wrongful convictions. Twenty-nine of the DNA exonerees pled guilty to crimes they did not commit. The Innocence Project encourages police departments to electronically record all custodial interrogations in their entirety in order to prevent coercion and to provide an accurate record of the proceedings.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/DNA_Exonerations_Nationwide.php

[Mr Gray]

I found this analysis of the case written as a PHD project at a Portuguese university...this in an excerpt...


The uncertainty regarding what had
happened to Joana provided an ongoing dramatic series of news reporting. Forensic science and
DNA technology received considerable attention in the news coverage, particularly in the
Correio da Manhã, as several news articles voiced high expectations towards the results of theanalysis made to the allegedly large number of stains collected in the crime scene. Nevertheless,
it was not possible to match any of the stains to Joana. In an editorial article of 12 November
2005, it is said that: “Only science, CSI style, could have provided the decisive contribution. (...)
I’m convinced that Leonor and João Cipriano are guilty. But what the heck… Couldn’t they have
managed any tiny piece of evidence that would leave me with a clear conscience? (Catarino,
2005).

They were accused of having murdered the girl, cut her
body into pieces and disposed of it. However, no body, weapon, cutting tools or conclusive
material evidence was ever found.


So there you have it from an independent Portuguese source...no conclusive material evidence was ever found...non of the blood samples matched Joanna... This must be potentially a miscarriage of justice

[Carana]

I found this analysis of the case written as a PHD project at a Portuguese university...this in an excerpt...


The uncertainty regarding what had
happened to Joana provided an ongoing dramatic series of news reporting. Forensic science and
DNA technology received considerable attention in the news coverage, particularly in the
Correio da Manhã, as several news articles voiced high expectations towards the results of theanalysis made to the allegedly large number of stains collected in the crime scene. Nevertheless,
it was not possible to match any of the stains to Joana. In an editorial article of 12 November
2005, it is said that: “Only science, CSI style, could have provided the decisive contribution. (...)
I’m convinced that Leonor and João Cipriano are guilty. But what the heck… Couldn’t they have
managed any tiny piece of evidence that would leave me with a clear conscience? (Catarino,
2005).

They were accused of having murdered the girl, cut her
body into pieces and disposed of it. However, no body, weapon, cutting tools or conclusive
material evidence was ever found.


So there you have it from an independent Portuguese source...no conclusive material evidence was ever found...non of the blood samples matched Joanna... This must be potentially a miscarriage of justice

Where did you find this? I haven't checked yet, but is it from Helena Machado's research?

http://www.aps.pt/vicongresso/pdfs/700.pdf

ETA: It's an interesting analysis of the media and the assumptions forming public opinion.

In case anyone's interested.

[Mr Gray]

Where did you find this? I haven't checked yet, but is it from Helena Machado's research?

http://www.aps.pt/vicongresso/pdfs/700.pdf

ETA: It's an interesting analysis of the media and the assumptions forming public opinion.

In case anyone's interested.

 I think it blows apart the myth we are told that the conviction is safe...the conviction appears very unsafe

http://repositorium.sdum.uminho.pt/bitstream/1822/25449/1/Santos%20Filipe%20-%20The%20Dissemination%20and%20Popularisation%20of%20Surveillance.pdf

[Carana]

I think it blows apart the myth we are told that the conviction is safe...the conviction appears very unsafe

http://repositorium.sdum.uminho.pt/bitstream/1822/25449/1/Santos%20Filipe%20-%20The%20Dissemination%20and%20Popularisation%20of%20Surveillance.pdf

Thanks for that... Have a read of the Machado one if you get time.

[Redblossom]

So a load of articles/papers prove the ciprianos are innocent? hardly.

[John]

I think it blows apart the myth we are told that the conviction is safe...the conviction appears very unsafe

http://repositorium.sdum.uminho.pt/bitstream/1822/25449/1/Santos%20Filipe%20-%20The%20Dissemination%20and%20Popularisation%20of%20Surveillance.pdf

Third party theories mean absolutely nothing when the woman herself has admitted on several occasions that she and brother João are culpable.  But you go on believing those who don't know if it makes you happy.

[Mr Gray]

Third party theories mean absolutely nothing when the woman herself has admitted on several occasions that she and brother João are culpable.  But you go on believing those who don't know if it makes you happy.

im going on the evidence...thats the most important thing....and you have to admit, as this paper says..there is no real evidence

[Mr Gray]

So a load of articles/papers prove the ciprianos are innocent? hardly.

it proves theres no real evidence

[Mr Gray]

So a load of articles/papers prove the ciprianos are innocent? hardly.

is there anything in that quote that is incorrect...there isn't...it really looks like a possible miscarriage of justice