DCI Redwood now admits Madeleine may not have left the apartment alive.

[jassi]

So how does he think it happened?  And who removed the body if he believes that The McCanns are Innocent, as he has stated more than once?

I have no idea what he thinks happens. I can only go on what he says publicly.

[Eleanor]

If they've discarded the death scent, why say Madeleine could've died before she left the apartment? I assume they must have a reason for thinking that?

Also, this serial offender left DNA before and also left children alive who could identify him. They've given a good description, why remove a body?

Also, if these crimes then continued, why go back to the previous MO? I've heard of escalation, but not then deceleration.

It is possible that Madeleine attempted to kick up a fuss and that the intruder killed her accidentally while trying to keep her quiet.
DNA is a difficult one because it can be left without the person being aware, but in attempting to silence a child it would have to be hands on. And he would probably know it.

It is all speculation anyway, but nevertheless a possibility.

The only thing we can be sure of is that Andy Redwood has stated that The McCanns are not Suspects or Persons of Interest.

[Estuarine]

Has any police force actually said they believe the McCanns to be innocent and used the word innocent?
The only thing I recall is DCI Redwood suggesting they weren't suspects in a specific line of inquiry.
But that is all so much water under the bridge. Currently he (DCI Redwood)has suggested that it is possible the child died in the apartment.
Once that is suggested The Met will start from the beginning of that possibility and investigate from the primary event with no preconceived ideas. It may well turn out the McCanns are innocent but right now it is an unknown in the current turn of events.

[sadie]

Key word.

Believes................................

When have you said anything of consequence, Stephen?

Eleanor constantly does.

[Eleanor]

Has any police force actually said they believe the McCanns to be innocent and used the word innocent?
The only thing I recall is DCI Redwood suggesting they weren't suspects in a specific line of inquiry.
But that is all so much water under the bridge. Currently he (DCI Redwood)has suggested that it is possible the child died in the apartment.
Once that is suggested The Met will start from the beginning of that possibility and investigate from the primary event with no preconceived ideas. It may well turn out the McCanns are innocent but right now it is an unknown in the current turn of events.

After more than two years and all of those trips to Portugal, and the rogatory letters.  Scotland Yard aren't doing this for fun and neither are they playing softly, softly.
They did the ground work in the beginning.

[Wonderfulspam]

After more than two years and all of those trips to Portugal, and the rogatory letters.  Scotland Yard aren't doing this for fun and neither are they playing softly, softly.
They did the ground work in the beginning.

You mean they excavated the driveway?

[Eleanor]

You mean they excavated the driveway?

Nah.  The PJ did that yonks ago.

[jassi]

After more than two years and all of those trips to Portugal, and the rogatory letters.  Scotland Yard aren't doing this for fun and neither are they playing softly, softly.
They did the ground work in the beginning.

More supposition on your part - you simply have no idea of what they are about, any more than the rest of us.

[Benice]

I think we'll leave your biased, dismissive opinion on the dogs to one side for now otherwise we'll end up too far away from the thread subject. 

It's not a case of ordinary people poking their nose in. These incidents happened to holiday makers in holiday resorts therefore it is logical to seek help holiday makers present at the time. If the dates and locations are not released then it is surely because they are not seeking witnesses to any strange happenings regarding those incidents. The question should then be why, if It can help solve the case? Instead they are looking for new cases and hoping to move forward from those new cases.....why? Why only attempt to solve the new cases? Is it because they consider the previous cases solved? This would bring tractorman into the equation....It could also be that because there was no sign of entry in the other circumstances that someone totally unrelated could also have been successful in gaining entry.

My point is, that to follow this line of enquiry is clearly to dismiss the dog alerts and yet there has been no statement to that effect or have I missed something?

I think you are missing the fact that these families have given a description of the perpetrator which bears no resemblance to tractorman who having died in 2009 cannot be the same person who carried out a similar attack in 2010.

[Carew]

It is possible that Madeleine attempted to kick up a fuss and that the intruder killed her accidentally while trying to keep her quiet.
DNA is a difficult one because it can be left without the person being aware, but in attempting to silence a child it would have to be hands on. And he would probably know it.

It is all speculation anyway, but nevertheless a possibility.

The only thing we can be sure of is that Andy Redwood has stated that The McCanns are not Suspects or Persons of Interest.

Your points do not explain where the idea that Madeleine may not have been alive when she left the apartment came from and why Andy Redwood introduced it.

What put the idea there?

Something must have triggered the concept for him to introduce it........(dog alerts maybe?)

[Wonderfulspam]

I think you are missing the fact that these families have given a description of the perpetrator which bears no resemblance to tractorman who having died in 2009 cannot be the same person who carried out a similar attack in 2010.

None of them saw his face though eh? 

All those witnesses, no efit.

Were all the victims partially sighted aswell as British perhaps.

"He had a very, very unhealthy interest in blind white British girls."

[jassi]

Your points do not explain where the idea that Madeleine may not have been alive when she left the apartment came from and why Andy Redwood introduced it.

What put the idea there?

Something must have triggered the concept for him to introduce it........(dog alerts maybe?)

Hogan Howe, with his mention of murder, perchance ?

[Serendipity]

...I asked in an earlier post that has been removed, if SY are looking for this serial offender then where is the list of dates and locations of each incident? Surely this should be standard practice when an appeal for witnesses is made? I have so far seen nothing of the sort which IMO makes the appeal half hearted. Why would SY make a half hearted appeal when a properly conducted one could solve the case? Or is that somehow not their opinion because as far as I recall they have only asked for NEW incidents to be reported?

Spot on Buzz. They don't need to publish the dates cos they know who was responsible for those attacks and have had the info for a while from the PJ http://www.noticiasaominuto.com/pais/191195/novo-suspeito-da-policia-britanica-ja-foi-investigado-pela-pj-e-esta-morto and also it was in Edgars files which were handed over

APRIL 14, 2004: Praia do Carvoeiro, Lagoa, 20 miles from Praia da Luz (PDA). Sex assault on 10-year-old girl.
 
JUNE 9 2005: Sao Rafael, near Sesmarias, 50 miles from PDA. Sex assault on nine-year-old girl.
 
JUNE 2 2006: Praia do Carvoeiro, Lagoa, 20 miles from PDA. Sex assault on seven-year-old girl and her 10-year-old sister in separate rooms.
 
OCTOBER 29 2006: Albufeira, 45 miles from PDA. Sex assault on eight-year-old girl
 
CHRISTMAS DAY, 2006: Silves, 35 miles from PDA. Attempted abduction of three-year-old girl.
 
MAY 28 2007: Albufeira. 45 miles from PDA. Intruder disturbed at the bottom of nine-year-old girl's bed.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id239.html

This para stands out for me from today's article in the Grauniad and is what assures me that Redwood is talking about the same guy albeit for some reason he decided to try and be politically correct and describe him as tanned:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/20/madeleine-mcann-suspect-died-in-2009

'Monteiro lived and often worked near holiday homes where the victims were staying at the time the crimes were perpetrated, he said. The source said the assailant was described by his victims as smelling of tobacco and speaking English but in a foreign accent. Some details are similar to those released by British authorities this week, but the sources said some of the victims described the man as being of African origin. None had discounted the possibility.'

What we have to remember here is that Redwood has a duty to cover all bases, investigate all potential leads in order to be absolutely certain that everything has been looked at so that any convictions he brings are as safe as houses leaving no room for doubt as to who is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance.

He brought the possibility of Madeleine not being alive when she left 5a up for a reason.  He could have just said there is a possibility that she is not longer alive but he didn't, he made a point of saying that she possibly may not have been alive before she left the apartment and that is totally different to what he has said previously.  SY have never ever said that they have ruled the dog alerts out and to say what they have said in the last days proves that as there is nothing else other than the dog alerts that would make them even think about suggesting that she was not alive BEFORE she left 5a. Why else would they bring it up? There is no way on this planet that someone entered that apartment, abused and killed Madeleine and then hung around for an hour and a half waiting for cadaver odour to develop.  To even suggest what they have done she would have had to have died sometime leading up to 8.30 pm that night. And that throws everything we know about checks etc completely out of the water.  There is no other logical explanation for AR saying what he said.

[Eleanor]

Your points do not explain where the idea that Madeleine may not have been alive when she left the apartment came from and why Andy Redwood introduced it.

What put the idea there?

Something must have triggered the concept for him to introduce it........(dog alerts maybe?)

It has always been a possibility that Madeleine is dead and possibly killed by an intruder who attempted to shut her up if she woke and was about to start screaming.  But most of us prefer to hope that she is still alive, so we tend not to think about it.
On the other hand, No McCann Sceptic is ever going to entertain the idea that an intruder could have killed Madeleine because this might exonerate The McCanns.

Now that this possibility has been raised we are attempting to discuss it, hopefully without too much abuse.

So why don't the sceptics come up with reasons for why this unlikely?

[Wonderfulspam]

Spot on Buzz. They don't need to publish the dates cos they know who was responsible for those attacks and have had the info for a while from the PJ http://www.noticiasaominuto.com/pais/191195/novo-suspeito-da-policia-britanica-ja-foi-investigado-pela-pj-e-esta-morto and also it was in Edgars files which were handed over

APRIL 14, 2004: Praia do Carvoeiro, Lagoa, 20 miles from Praia da Luz (PDA). Sex assault on 10-year-old girl.
 
JUNE 9 2005: Sao Rafael, near Sesmarias, 50 miles from PDA. Sex assault on nine-year-old girl.
 
JUNE 2 2006: Praia do Carvoeiro, Lagoa, 20 miles from PDA. Sex assault on seven-year-old girl and her 10-year-old sister in separate rooms.
 
OCTOBER 29 2006: Albufeira, 45 miles from PDA. Sex assault on eight-year-old girl
 
CHRISTMAS DAY, 2006: Silves, 35 miles from PDA. Attempted abduction of three-year-old girl.
 
MAY 28 2007: Albufeira. 45 miles from PDA. Intruder disturbed at the bottom of nine-year-old girl's bed.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id239.html

This para stands out for me from today's article in the Grauniad and is what assures me that Redwood is talking about the same guy albeit for some reason he decided to try and be politically correct and describe him as tanned:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/20/madeleine-mcann-suspect-died-in-2009

'Monteiro lived and often worked near holiday homes where the victims were staying at the time the crimes were perpetrated, he said. The source said the assailant was described by his victims as smelling of tobacco and speaking English but in a foreign accent. Some details are similar to those released by British authorities this week, but the sources said some of the victims described the man as being of African origin. None had discounted the possibility.'

What we have to remember here is that Redwood has a duty to cover all bases, investigate all potential leads in order to be absolutely certain that everything has been looked at so that any convictions he brings are as safe as houses leaving no room for doubt as to who is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance.

He brought the possibility of Madeleine not being alive when she left 5a up for a reason.  He could have just said there is a possibility that she is not longer alive but he didn't, he made a point of saying that she possibly may not have been alive before she left the apartment and that is totally different to what he has said previously.  SY have never ever said that they have ruled the dog alerts out and to say what they have said in the last days proves that as there is nothing else other than the dog alerts that would make them even think about suggesting that she was not alive BEFORE she left 5a. Why else would they bring it up? There is no way on this planet that someone entered that apartment, abused and killed Madeleine and then hung around for an hour and a half waiting for cadaver odour to develop.  To even suggest what they have done she would have had to have died sometime leading up to 8.30 pm that night. And that throws everything we know about checks etc completely out of the water.  There is no other logical explanation for AR saying what he said.

There is no way on this planet that someone entered that apartment, abused and killed Madeleine and then hung around for an hour and a half waiting for cadaver odour to develop. 
 

In this event Mr McCanns proud fateher 9pm visit couldn't have happened.