DCI Redwood now admits Madeleine may not have left the apartment alive.

[icabodcrane]

the glaring mistake in your logic is that the alerts have not been confirmed as cadaver by Grime

I was answering Pegasus' question as to  whether the cadaver dog alerts could be  'incorporated'  into the theory that an intruder killed Madeleine in the apartment, and then removed her body

They could not

[icabodcrane]

Why not?

Because unless an intruder left a dead body there for an hour and a half  before removing it  ...  und unless Gerry McCann was lying about his 9.10pm  'proud father'  moment   ...   and unless Madeleine had been dead since 8.30pm at the latest  (  when the McCanns were leaving the apartment  )   then there would  not have been enough time for   'the scent of death'  to be detectable to the dog

[pegasus]

"an hour and a half" is rather different to what Mr Grime says.

[jassi]

"an hour and a half" is rather different to what Mr Grime says.

Which is what?

[icabodcrane]

"an hour and a half" is rather different to what Mr Grime says.

You keep saying that Pegasus,  but you are not explaing what you mean

[pegasus]

"an hour and a half" is rather different to what Mr Grime says

Which is what?

I apologise, and withdraw that post, finally realising that Serendipity knows what he/she is talking about.
I now accept that the minimum of about one and a half hours as indicated by experiment is likely to be correct.

[icabodcrane]

Which is what?

I apologise, and withdraw that post, finally realising that Serendipity knows what he/she is talking about.
I now accept that the minimum of about one and a half hours as indicated by experiment is likely to be correct.

Thankyou for that pegasus

So we are agreed, then,  that Scotland Yard cannot, realistically,    'incorporate'  the  cadaver dog alerts into a theory  that involves an intruder killing Madeleine in the apartment   ?

Any such theory would,  necessarily,  have to  'presume'  that the dog  was wrong  ...  and there is simply no reason,  whilst Madeleine remains missing,  to presume the dog was  wrong,  is there  ? 

[pegasus]

Thankyou for that pegasus

So we are agreed, then,  that Scotland Yard cannot, realistically,    'incorporate'  the  cadaver dog alerts into a theory  that involves an intruder killing Madeleine in the apartment   ?

Any such theory would,  necessarily,  have to  'presume'  that the dog  was wrong  ...  and there is simply no reason,  whilst Madeleine remains missing,  to presume the dog was  wrong,  is there  ?

The hypothesis is unlikely to be the correct one IMO, but if detectives look at that hypothesis then IMO they would consider dog intelligence in that context, even if there are timing issues, they would need to consider it to see them.

[icabodcrane]

The hypothesis is unlikely to be the correct one IMO, but if detectives look at that hypothesis then IMO they would consider dog intelligence in that context, even if there are timing issues, they would need to consider it to see them.

They surely did consider the timings

...  and then,  knowing that a dead body would have to have been in the apartment  at 8.30pm at the latest, in accordance with the dog intelligence ...  they announced that they think Madeleine might have died in the apartment

The McCanns have,  always,   vehemently denied there was  ANY  evidence that suggested Madeleine had come to any harm 

Well,  Scotland Yard don't agree with them, clearly

[pegasus]

They surely did consider the timings

...  and then,  knowing that a dead body would have to have been in the apartment  at 8.30pm at the latest, in accordance with the dog intelligence ...  they announced that they think Madeleine might have died in the apartment

The McCanns have,  always,   vehemently denied there was  ANY  evidence that suggested Madeleine had come to any harm 

Well,  Scotland Yard don't agree with them, clearly

I see no reason to doubt last seen alive time.

[icabodcrane]

I see no reason to doubt last seen alive time.

The 9.10pm  'last seen alive'  time you mean  ?   ...  when Gerry had his 'proud father moment

Well,  I suppose that must mean you don't acknowledge the cadaver dog's alert at all then 

Your perogative, of course   ...  but you really ought to support that position if you want to be taken seriously

[pegasus]

The 9.10pm  'last seen alive'  time you mean  ?   ...  when Gerry had his 'proud father moment

Well,  I suppose that must mean you don't acknowledge the cadaver dog's alert at all then 

Your perogative, of course   ...  but you really ought to support that position if you want to be taken seriously

Thats last seen alive yes.
I need to read up on that study with the gauze pads.

[pathfinder73]

And which one do you believe? Kate's under the covers or Gerry's on top of the covers. Also no alerts in that bedroom or her bed   >@@(*&) Gerry's trusty watch is in action again.

"When asked at what time he went to check on the children the night Madeleine disappeared, he recalls that this was around 21:04 according to his watch. He remembers that once inside the apartment he was surprised that the door to the children's room was slightly more open than how he had left it when he and Kate left for dinner. However, it could have been Madeleine who had opened the door after waking and getting up, eventually to go to her parents’ room. On this occasion, the three children were lying in their beds asleep, he is sure of this. Moreover, he says that with respect to Madeleine she was in the same position in which he had left her at the beginning of the night. Madeleine was lying down on her left side, completely uncovered, i.e. lying on top of the covers, with the soft toy and blanket, both pink, next to her head; he does not know if they were in the position that can be seen in the photograph attached to the files."

[pegasus]

I haven't looked at the covers issue yet. But IMO nothing odd about lack of alert.

[icabodcrane]

I haven't looked at the covers issue yet. But IMO nothing odd about lack of alert.

What do you mean "nothing odd about lack of alert ?"

I have difficulty making sense of your posts pegasus ...  forgive me for that,  perhaps I'm just not on your wave-length,  but could you be more precise  ?