Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?

[G-Unit]

Are you disputing the fact that two trained doctors were closely monitoring and assessing the condition of the twins throughout that night?

That depends what you mean by 'closely monitoring and assessing'. Fiona describes Kate laying her hands on their backs in G5A. Dianne says they were carried up to the Payne's apartment by the Paynes and placed in their cots. They didn't wake up.

[Alfred R Jones]

That depends what you mean by 'closely monitoring and assessing'. Fiona describes Kate laying her hands on their backs in G5A. Dianne says they were carried up to the Payne's apartment by the Paynes and placed in their cots. They didn't wake up.

"we sat on the sofa, me and Kate with the twins asleep on us for a while" - Fiona Payne.  How much more closely could they have been monitored?

[Angelo222]

SY have recently interviewed this witness.

"She observed that none of the elements of the group including the father and mother of the child was concerned with looking for her."

Silvia Maria Correia Ramos Batista

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 11H20

As she said earlier she was alerted about the disappearance of Madeleine between 22.30 and 23:00. She was at home and was informed of the event via a telephone call.

She drove immediately to the Ocean Club where she arrived a few minutes before elements of the GNR popped in.

After she arrived she went immediately to the apartment A5 where she found several people inside the apartment and outside of it. She entered in the flat but soon left without having spoken with anyone, because she was informed that elements of the GNR were in the principal reception. She went there to meet them.

When she came close to the elements of the GNR she found that behind her was Gerry, Madeleine's father, accompanied by another man whose identity she doesn't remember. Then Gerry kneeled down, hit the floor with both hands, positioning himself as if he were a praying Arab, and screamed twice of anger, what he said being impossible to understand. Then Gerry stand up and accompanied her (the witness) and the other man in the car of the GNR to the apartment A5.

She entered the apartment and asked for the passports of all elements of the family, and also photographs of the missing girl. She went with Gerry to the GNR car to hand over the requested documents. She mentions she did this, as well as other tasks, at the request of the GNR Commandant, because she could translate their questions and the missing girl's family's answers.

She remembers Gerry gave the Commandant of several photographs of the missing girl. They were postcard-like pictures, taking into account their size and shape and seemed all the same to her.

She understood also that since the very beginning either Gerry or the others insisted on stating that Madeleine had been snatched, all using the word "abducted" instead of missing, and all showing much interest in informing the press of the situation.

She also recalls entering in the room where Madeleine should be sleeping and remembers now that the door was closed. The room was dark. The blinds were down, some light entering through their holes. The windows were closed and the curtains slightly open. Gerry, who followed her and the elements of the GNR, said he did close the window because of the babies sleeping in the room, a fact she confirms.

Gerry said that when he discovered the disappearance of Madeleine he noticed that the window and the blinds were open and the curtains fluttering.

She recalls that the beds which were in the middle of the room and used by the babies were aligned and therefore found it strange that someone had taken Madeleine from the bed where she would be sleeping and had gone to the window because there was no space to pass.

She opened the wardrobes of that room in order to confirm that Madeleine wasn't eventually hiding there.

Then everyone left the room and someone shut the door. She remained for some time in the living room, near the GNR elements, Gerry and other elements of the group who got in and out and spoke on their cellular phones.

She observed that none of the elements of the group including the father and mother of the child was concerned with looking for her.

The mother was sitting on the bed of her room, the father was with her (the witness) and the elements of the GNR, and other elements of the group got in and out and spoke on the phone, anxious, in her opinion, to tell the press what happened.

She thought that the child's mother was devastated, the father was worried and also asked to notify the press and to get dogs to search.

About the others she only remembers that Fiona and her husband, Payne, were hysterical with the situation.

At a certain time, after the arrival of the PJ elements, the parents removed the twins from the beds in which they were still sleeping and took them to the first floor flat.

At the request of Kate she (the witness) to remove their puppets drink and a blanket that she took to the first floor flat. Only the mattresses remained.

She wanted to mention that around 3h00 Madeleine's parents asked for a priest to be present. They didn't explain why they wanted a priest but she (the witness) was amazed, because there were no indications that the little girl was dead and only in these circumstances is usually asked the presence of a priest.

At some point she translated the statement of one of the ladies who belonged to the group and that she describes as a brunette one. This lady said to the GNR elements, and she (the witness) translated, that she had seen a man on the road who might have carried a child.

This situation surprised her because she (the witness) was convinced that when the lady saw the man, the lady was in a place from where she had no angle of vision for the place where she saw the man. She doesn't know exactly what was the position of the lady when she saw the man, but she knows that the lady said she saw the man in the street in front of the Madeleine's bedroom window, walking in the direction of the street that then leads to the Baptista supermarket.

Asked about the way the members of the group were dressed up in that night, she only remembers that Fiona was wearing a green blouse, that Gerry was wearing a dark shirt and the husband of Fiona wearing clear pants, beige she thinks.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_BATISTA.htm

It is always good to refresh ones memory and read a statement by an independent witness who was there that night and saw first hand what occurred at the main reception and also in apartment 5a.

She recalls that the beds which were in the middle of the room and used by the babies were aligned and therefore found it strange that someone had taken Madeleine from the bed where she would be sleeping and had gone to the window because there was no space to pass.

I find it very strange that Kate didn't at least close the window when she found it open but ran out of the apartment leaving the twins at the mercy of the elements and possibly an intruder.

[Alfred R Jones]

It is always good to read a statement by an independent witness who was there that night and saw first hand what occurred at the main reception and also in apartment 5a.

She recalls that the beds which were in the middle of the room and used by the babies were aligned and therefore found it strange that someone had taken Madeleine from the bed where she would be sleeping and had gone to the window because there was no space to pass.

I find it very strange that Kate didn't at least close the window when she found it open but ran out of the apartment leaving the twins at the mercy of the elements and possibly an intruder.

Off topic.

[G-Unit]

"we sat on the sofa, me and Kate with the twins asleep on us for a while" - Fiona Payne.  How much more closely could they have been monitored?

Fiona doesn't mention any monitoring;

 I think, I think they were Policemen, I can't remember who carried up Sean and Amelie. Erm, and we sat on the sofa, me and Kate with the twins asleep on us for a while, erm, and they didn't wake up and, again, that was quite strange, even in the transfer and, and being handled by people that weren't their parents, they didn't, they didn't wake up. Erm, and we settled them down and made a bed up for Kate and Gerry and I think it was around sort of half four'ish we decided we should all try and just get, get a rest,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
 

[Alfred R Jones]

Fiona doesn't mention any monitoring;

 I think, I think they were Policemen, I can't remember who carried up Sean and Amelie. Erm, and we sat on the sofa, me and Kate with the twins asleep on us for a while, erm, and they didn't wake up and, again, that was quite strange, even in the transfer and, and being handled by people that weren't their parents, they didn't, they didn't wake up. Erm, and we settled them down and made a bed up for Kate and Gerry and I think it was around sort of half four'ish we decided we should all try and just get, get a rest,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Puh-lease.  What else is there to do but monitor the child lying asleep on you?!

[G-Unit]

Puh-lease.  What else is there to do but monitor the child lying asleep on you?!

She noticed they were still sleeping. She still thought it was strange. She presumably didn't mention her concern either.

Are these really the twins who cried on up to three other nights when all was quiet and dark? The twins who were so sensitive to noise that the parents didn't use the front door to check on them in case the noise of the key turning in the lock woke them? Suddenly they've cracked this sleeping lark and have slept from 7.30pm to 4am and beyond. They slept through kicking, screaming, wailing, doors opening and closing, lights being turned on and off, bedrooms being searched and being carried outside by strange men. Amazing isn't it?

[Alfred R Jones]

She noticed they were still sleeping. She still thought it was strange. She presumably didn't mention her concern either.

Are these really the twins who cried on up to three other nights when all was quiet and dark? The twins who were so sensitive to noise that the parents didn't use the front door to check on them in case the noise of the key turning in the lock woke them? Suddenly they've cracked this sleeping lark and have slept from 7.30pm to 4am and beyond. They slept through kicking, screaming, wailing, doors opening and closing, lights being turned on and off, bedrooms being searched and being carried outside by strange men. Amazing isn't it?

And?

[Brietta]

Puh-lease.  What else is there to do but monitor the child lying asleep on you?!

I applaud your persistence Alfred;  I think it would be apparent that two doctors are capable of monitoring a child's respiration particularly if they are holding the children in their arms as they sleep.

Whether or not any substance was used to facilitate kidnapping Madeleine will probably never be known. 

Who was it from the Policia Judiciaria with the authority to authorise and command the testing of the twins who was present in Luz in the wee small hours of the 4th, anyway?

[Mr Gray]

She noticed they were still sleeping. She still thought it was strange. She presumably didn't mention her concern either.

Are these really the twins who cried on up to three other nights when all was quiet and dark? The twins who were so sensitive to noise that the parents didn't use the front door to check on them in case the noise of the key turning in the lock woke them? Suddenly they've cracked this sleeping lark and have slept from 7.30pm to 4am and beyond. They slept through kicking, screaming, wailing, doors opening and closing, lights being turned on and off, bedrooms being searched and being carried outside by strange men. Amazing isn't it?

if they had cried on other nights no wonder they were so tired

[G-Unit]

What is the use of monitoring a child's breathing? You suspect that they have been given something to make them sleep. You don't know when it was given, you don't know what it might be, you don't know the dosage. Given so much uncertainty the child could stop breathing at any time. Then what?

[Alfred R Jones]

What is the use of monitoring a child's breathing? You suspect that they have been given something to make them sleep. You don't know when it was given, you don't know what it might be, you don't know the dosage. Given so much uncertainty the child could stop breathing at any time. Then what?

Is that what happens?  Breathing normally and then just suddenly stop breathing?  Are doctors trained to deal with such situations?

[faithlilly]

Is that what happens?  Breathing normally and then just suddenly stop breathing?  Are doctors trained to deal with such situations?

Very forward thinking of the Ocean Club to have acquired a resus unit just in case.

[Alfred R Jones]

Very forward thinking of the Ocean Club to have acquired a resus unit just in case.

What are you talking about?

[faithlilly]

What are you talking about?

Isn't that what doctors use when a patient's heart stops ? It could have easily happened to the twins.