Neville Bamber and Teddy bear in master bedroom

[Myster]

I'd still go with your no.1, whichever way the 4th casing found its way upstairs, since this is what Vanezis observed about the close proximity of wounds 1 & 2, and 3 & 4 being within half an inch of each other. The first bullet would no doubt have disrupted his brain so much that he would be incapable of any movement, let alone making his own way downstairs.

What is unusual and puzzling is the size of the entry wounds of each group, a difference of five-sixteenths of an inch or 8mm. Could this be caused by varying distances between the end of the rifle and the head?

[Myster]

I suggest it could have been a crazed form of control over his victim.  One thing about the Aga though, it was coal fired and even if lit would have been turned right down overnight. There would be little heat generated in that state imo.  Did the forensics expert per chance note any discoloration of the rifle barrel which would indicate heat had been applied to it externally?

Whether it was the rifle or some other AGA implement hanging up to the right, this might have been inserted through the filler hole in the left-hand hotplate and into the hot coals of the combustion chamber, rather than leaving it on a hotplate or in one of the ovens.  Aren't AGA's usually banked up at bedtime to ensure they're still alight by morning?  A good point though about any loss of bluing/discolouration to the rifle's end which should still be visible, shouldn't it?

[Opal]

But if the perp went to these lengths to ensure NB was dead why not do the same with the other victims?  What made the perp need to single out NB?

I think this was because JB hated Neville most, he'd stated this so often. Recent argument's with Neville at Osea Road. JB was against everything proposed to him by NB.

[Opal]

Talking of the burns to NB's neck/back. Could these possibly have happened before the murders took place? I was wondering if they could have happened on the farm recently before the 7th August. Not necessarily by JB....although NB did say to his brother... I must not turn my back on JB. NB also spoke to BW about getting things in order, saying....we all have to go at some point in time. Something had happened to make NB concerned about the future when he was in good health! Did Jb know NB was putting things in order?

[scipio_usmc]

I'd still go with your no.1, whichever way the 4th casing found its way upstairs, since this is what Vanezis observed about the close proximity of wounds 1 & 2, and 3 & 4 being within half an inch of each other. The first bullet would no doubt have disrupted his brain so much that he would be incapable of any movement, let alone making his own way downstairs.

What is unusual and puzzling is the size of the entry wounds of each group, a difference of five-sixteenths of an inch or 8mm. Could this be caused by varying distances between the end of the rifle and the head?

Bullets enter at different angles. That alone helps result in different sized entry wounds though distance can as well. Some breaks will be larger because of gas effects among other things relative to the exact nature of that part of the body.

There were entrance wounds of 4 different sizes:

3/16"
1/4"
5/16"
1/2"

22 fell into the first 3 so the variation among these was extremely small- only 1/16" or 2/16".

1 shot to June and 2 to Nevill were 1/2.  The angle at which the bullets hit in these shots resulted in more of the side hitting while the others featured mainly the nose hitting. These 3 were all angled shots to the side of the head (side of the chest for June).

The killer definitely fired the shots into Nevill's hea din pairs. The killer double-tapped the weapon when firing into the top of his skull and also did so when shooting the right side of his head. After all that happened he wanted to make damn sure Nevill was dead to fired 2 shots then decide he better fire 2 more to make sure. Whether he shot the top of the head first for second is anyone's guess.   

[scipio_usmc]

But if the perp went to these lengths to ensure NB was dead why not do the same with the other victims?  What made the perp need to single out NB?

well the most obvious reason would be because Nevill put up a big fight and he didn't want Nevill waking up and fighting him again or waking up and grabbing a shotgun and appearing with a shotgun as he was taking care of the other victims.

But he made sure June was dead by firing a shot between her eyes. He fired 2 extra shots into Nevill's head to make sure he was dead and fired one between June's eyes to make sure. He fired multiple rounds into the heads of each boy to make sure they were dead.

Vanezis wasn't positive the injuries to his back were burns or that they definitely were from the night of the murders. It has been shown that injuries from being struck by objects or a body hitting into objects have been mistaken as burns.  The only way to ensure something is a burn if to test the flash for sure signs of being burned. No one records Vanezis doing such.

Thus we don't even know they are burns.  What if during the course of struggling Nevill hit his back into something? Jeremy could have hit or burned him with something to try to give the impression Nevill was being marched at gunpoint or forced to make the phone call to Jeremy at gunpoint. Someone here- perhaps you- posted about burns that can be caused by bullets that land on flesh. I looked more into that and it does occasionally happen, for all we know the bullet that grazed him ended up inside his gown bouncing around hit back. There is not enough information for us to figure out whether the marks were incidental or done on purpose for some staging purposes. Vanezis not really caring much about them and thus not doing anything to truly document their exact nature means we have no hope of even knowing whether the skin was actually burned let alone to figure out what precisely caused them.

You talk of friction burns, stabbing the rifle really hard into a back could perhaps cause such abrasions. Post mortem it is very easy to damage skin and it will look worse than would be the case if the person were still alive. There are ways to assess whether injuries were pre or post mortem but it requires great skill and care. Clearly Vanezis either lacked the skill to attempt to assess such or had no desire to bother.

Only if someone gets Jeremy to talk will we ever know what caused the wounds and why they came about.

 

[scipio_usmc]

The only part of that I cannot sympathise with is the four shots in the kitchen claim. It cannot be established beyond doubt that all four shots occurred in the kitchen since one empty casing associated with those shots was found at the foot of the stairs.  That would suggest several possible scenarios.

1. Nevill was shot four times in the kitchen but one casing got carried in someone's boot to the stairs.

2. Nevill was shot by someone higher up the stairs as he made his way downstairs.

3. Nevill was shot by someone standing near the bottom of the stairs as he made his way downstairs.

All 4 had to be fired in the same  room where his body were found.  Any one of these wounds would bring him down. He would not have made it to the kitchen if shot in the head prior.

Furthermore the 4 shots were fired pairs of 2.  Each pair was closely grouped with the shooter firing from the same exact location as the first shot was fired from and Nevill being in the same exact location as the prior shot. They were fired in pairs so shooting him on the stairs would require a pair being shot there.  That is where his body would have been found he would not have made it to the kitchen.

The trajectory/location of the wounds precludes someone shooting Nevill in the head from the bottom of the stairs. Shooting him as he goes down the stairs in the head would result in the casing going to the right down toward the bottom not the left towards the landing. But again any hit to the head on the upstairs would have brought him down there and they were fired in pairs anyway.

There is no question the 4 shots to the head were all fired in the kitchen after he was beaten unconscious and that 1 of the casings was accidentally transferred somewhere else by a cop or the killer.

[adam]

But if the perp went to these lengths to ensure NB was dead why not do the same with the other victims?  What made the perp need to single out NB?

There is already a thread on this. I will post it.

[adam]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7642.0.html

[adam]

I think this was because JB hated Neville most, he'd stated this so often. Recent argument's with Neville at Osea Road. JB was against everything proposed to him by NB.

There is a slim chance this was one of the reasons. He resented Sheila and the twins rather than hated them. June he didn't like but she had nothing to do with the farm or caravan park. Neville he perhaps had the biggest gripe with.

With Neville immobilised and perhaps dead, Bamber simply burned his back out practical neccessity, to check for signs of life. He had more important things to do in a strict time scale than start torturing an uncousious and/or dead man.

[Holly Goodhead]

Bullets enter at different angles. That alone helps result in different sized entry wounds though distance can as well. Some breaks will be larger because of gas effects among other things relative to the exact nature of that part of the body.

There were entrance wounds of 4 different sizes:

3/16"
1/4"
5/16"
1/2"

22 fell into the first 3 so the variation among these was extremely small- only 1/16" or 2/16".

1 shot to June and 2 to Nevill were 1/2.  The angle at which the bullets hit in these shots resulted in more of the side hitting while the others featured mainly the nose hitting. These 3 were all angled shots to the side of the head (side of the chest for June).

The killer definitely fired the shots into Nevill's hea din pairs. The killer double-tapped the weapon when firing into the top of his skull and also did so when shooting the right side of his head. After all that happened he wanted to make damn sure Nevill was dead to fired 2 shots then decide he better fire 2 more to make sure. Whether he shot the top of the head first for second is anyone's guess.

Could the difference be due to the hollow point design of the bullets?  Upon impact they open up but not in a uniform way? 

[Holly Goodhead]

I think this was because JB hated Neville most, he'd stated this so often. Recent argument's with Neville at Osea Road. JB was against everything proposed to him by NB.

Reading CAL's book I was left with the impression JB had a good relationship with NB.

If the OCP argument you are referring to relates to some fencing, AE supported JB on this.

 It's not unusual in family run businesses for members to disagree especially across generations. 

[Angelo222]

Reading CAL's book I was left with the impression JB had a good relationship with NB.

If the OCP argument you are referring to relates to some fencing, AE supported JB on this.

 It's not unusual in family run businesses for members to disagree especially across generations.

Greed is a powerful emotion and if you add the element of hate you have the perfect storm.  The thought of bringing Sheila and her spawn back into his domain must have been the last straw.

[Holly Goodhead]

There is a slim chance this was one of the reasons. He resented Sheila and the twins rather than hated them. June he didn't like but she had nothing to do with the farm or caravan park. Neville he perhaps had the biggest gripe with.

With Neville immobilised and perhaps dead, Bamber simply burned his back out practical neccessity, to check for signs of life. He had more important things to do in a strict time scale than start torturing an uncousious and/or dead man.

Is there any firm evidence JB resented SC and the twins?  Did SC discuss with Dr Ferguson any relationship difficulties with JB?  No.  SC's relationship difficulties were centred around June and the twins.

June had a lot to do with OCP.  She was a majority shareholder along with PB.  AE and JB were minority shareholders.  AE and JB wanted to install fruit machines June was against.

[Holly Goodhead]

Greed is a powerful emotion and if you add the element of hate you have the perfect storm.  The thought of bringing Sheila and her spawn back into his domain must have been the last straw.

I don't think SC would ever have agreed to move back to Essex.  If she did JB might have welcomed it.  He may have said let's swap with SC having his cottage in Goldhanger and JB having SC's flat in London.  JB could have worked on the farm during the week sleeping at WHF Mon - Thu eve and then spent his w.e's and holidays in London.