Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[G-Unit]

It always hit me as a bit of religious or even racial discrimination to have used the words "praying like Arabs".

This case is full of discrimination on all sides.

[Alice Purjorick]

I can only wonder why the Portuguese officers who witnessed the McCanns "praying like Arabs" didn't summon immediate medical assistance for the apparent state of mind. Had they done so, the twins could have been assessed at the same time.

Presumably because the Iberian peninsula had considerable Moorish influence in it's history so praying in that manner would not have been considered at all abnormal ?

[Robittybob1]

On wonders what form that evidence would have taken.

It could be spills, empty sachets, pill bottles, capsules etc

Presumably because the Iberian peninsula had considerable Moorish influence in it's history so praying in that manner would not have been considered at all abnormal ?

When I see the Portuguese names you get the sense the Christian church had a bigger influence. eg "MARIA NOELIA DE JESUS DO NASCIMENTO"

[Robittybob1]

This case is full of discrimination on all sides.

the words used by Silvia are the only ones that grate when I hear them.  What were you thinking of?

[Alice Purjorick]

It could be spills, empty sachets, pill bottles, capsules etcWhen I see the Portuguese names you get the sense the Christian church had a bigger influence. eg "MARIA NOELIA DE JESUS DO NASCIMENTO"

;

1. Ed Zachary; now expand along those lines.

2.Well we could have a pissing contest I suppose.
None the less the Moors had considerable influence on the Iberian peninsula. It's simply a mater of recorded historical fact.

[ShiningInLuz]

Kidnapper drugged my twins.

Kindly get back on topic.

[Alfie]

Kate wasn't able to care for herself, let alone her children, she says. Those convinced that her diagnosis and monitoring of her children was satisfactory may need to accept that their faith in her is misplaced imo.

What about Fiona Payne?  You claim she did nothing wrong but no doubt if you'd been there you'd have taken charge and insisted the twins were taken to hospital, right?

[Alfie]

I went back to Kate. I mean, that, that was my main kind of role that night, again, was just, I was the only one really with Kate continuously for that evening and, as I say, at that point she was just in no state to be left alone and that was what I saw as my role really'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Concerned to support Kate. No mention of the children.

And even though you seem to accept that Kate McCann was completely in pieces and Fiona Payne was in a role of caring for her (and the twins as Kate's book and her own statement later confirms) you still feel it is you duty to lambast Kate repeatedly whilst excusing Fiona from any responsibility - why is that?

[faithlilly]

And even though you seem to accept that Kate McCann was completely in pieces and Fiona Payne was in a role of caring for her (and the twins as Kate's book and her own statement later confirms) you still feel it is you duty to lambast Kate repeatedly whilst excusing Fiona from any responsibility - why is that?

Did Kate even tell her that she suspected that the twins had been sedated? Does Fiona mention it ?  If she didn't know how deeply that the twins slept she would have been unaware how unusual this level of unresponsiveness was.

It would be very odd if Kate didn't explicitly tell her friends, but especially Fiona, that she suspected the twins had been sedated.

[Alfie]

Make your mind up. Kate was either in a fit state of she wasn't. If she wasn't her diagnosis and monitoring of the children was likely to be unsatisfactory.

She wasn't the only doctor in the room able to observe and monitor the twins - "they were fine" said Fiona Payne - was her assessment unsatisfactory too? 

[Robittybob1]

Did Kate even tell her that she suspected that the twins had been sedated? Does Fiona mention it ?  If she didn't know how deeply that the twins slept she would have been unaware how unusual this level of unresponsiveness was.

It would be very odd if Kate didn't explicitly tell her friends, but especially Fiona, that she suspected the twins had been sedated.

If Kate was capable of this then Fiona is exaggerating Kate's unfit state.

[Alfie]

Did Kate even tell her that she suspected that the twins had been sedated? Does Fiona mention it ?  If she didn't know how deeply that the twins slept she would have been unaware how unusual this level of unresponsiveness was.

It would be very odd if Kate didn't explicitly tell her friends, but especially Fiona, that she suspected the twins had been sedated.

"she (Kate) kept going into the twins, she kept putting her hands on the twins to check they were breathing, she was very much concerned in checking that they were okay. But they were okay, I mean, they were fine, they didn't, they were asleep, but at the time it did seem weird, I remember thinking, you know, when the Police came they turned the lights on, there was loads of noise, obviously from the moment Kate discovered that Madeleine was gone, the screaming and the shouting and there was a lot of noise and they, they didn't, you know, so much as blink'. - Fiona Payne statement.  She is an anaesthetist.  She saw Kate's concern about here children, she thought the fact that the children didn't wake up was "weird".  We do not have a verbatim transcript of every word that passed between them that night but as Kate was clearly agitated by the twins' deep sleep and as both women sat together with a twin on each lap it would be strange if Kate had not mentioned to Fiona why she repeatedly checked on the twins, or for Fiona not to ask her about it.

[faithlilly]

"she (Kate) kept going into the twins, she kept putting her hands on the twins to check they were breathing, she was very much concerned in checking that they were okay. But they were okay, I mean, they were fine, they didn't, they were asleep, but at the time it did seem weird, I remember thinking, you know, when the Police came they turned the lights on, there was loads of noise, obviously from the moment Kate discovered that Madeleine was gone, the screaming and the shouting and there was a lot of noise and they, they didn't, you know, so much as blink'. - Fiona Payne statement.  She is an anaesthetist.  She saw Kate's concern about here children, she thought the fact that the children didn't wake up was "weird".  We do not have a verbatim transcript of every word that passed between them that night but as Kate was clearly agitated by the twins' deep sleep and as both women sat together with a twin on each lap it would be strange if Kate had not mentioned to Fiona why she repeatedly checked on the twins, or for Fiona not to ask her about it.

If Kate had furnished Fiona with a reason for her checking I'm sure Fiona would have mentioned it or as Fiona was at Kate's side most of the night she would have known why it was suspected that the twins were perhaps less responsive than she thought they should have been as her friend had just, allegedly, told the police officers present that she suspected her children had been sedated. The fact that Fiona found it 'weird' yet fails to qualify this with the suspected reason suggests Kate never voiced her concerns to, or in, Fiona's presence.

[Mr Gray]

You could start by setting a good example on this thread, where you have refused to provide any.

I haven't refused to supply any
I'm posting my opinion based on 40 yrs experience of sedation
As I have not provided a cite then posters can make there own mind up if my opinion has any validity
Supporters will....[ censored word] wont

[stephen25000]

' Unresponsive and breathing child

What to look for - unresponsive and breathing child

If your child is not responding to you and you think they are unresponsive, ask loudly: ‘What has happened?’ or ‘Open your eyes’. Place one hand on their shoulder and tap gently. If they still do not respond, it’s likely they’re unresponsive.

What you need to do - unresponsive and breathing child

If you think your child is unresponsive, check to see if they are still breathing normally. If they are unresponsive and breathing, here's what you need to do:

Step 1 - Open their airway

Place one hand on the child’s forehead and gently tilt their head back. As you do this, their mouth will fall open slightly.

Place the fingertips of your other hand on the point of their chin and lift it.

Step 2 - Check to ensure they are breathing normally

Look, listen and feel for normal breathing – chest movement, sounds and breaths on your cheek. Do this for no more than ten seconds.

If they are breathing normally, put them into the recovery position to keep their airway open.

Step 3 - First, kneel down next to them on the floor

The next three steps are for if you find the child lying on their back. If you find them lying on their side or their front you may not need all three.

Place their arm nearest you at a right angle to their body, with the palm facing upwards.
Take their other arm and place it across their chest so the back of their hand is against their cheek nearest you, and hold it there. With your other hand, lift their far knee and pull it up until their foot is flat on the floor.
Now roll the child onto their side. Carefully pull on their bent knee and roll them towards you. Once you’ve done this, the top arm should be supporting their head and the bent leg should be on the floor to stop them from rolling over too far.
Next, check that their airway is open, so they can breathe, and any fluid in their mouth can drain away. To do this, tilt their head back, gently tilt their chin forward and make sure that their airway will stay open and clear.

But, if you think your child could have a spinal injury, you must try and keep their neck as still as possible. Instead of tilting their neck, use the jaw thrust technique:

Place your hands on either side of their face and with your fingertips gently lift the jaw to open the airway, avoiding any movement of their neck.

Once you’ve put them safely into the recovery position, call 999 or 112 for emergency help.

Remember that until help arrives you must keep checking that they’re still breathing normally.

If they stop breathing normally at any point, call 999 or 112 straight away and get ready to give them chest compressions and rescue breaths – CPR. '

http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/first-aid-advice/first-aid-for-parents/unresponsive-and-breathing/unresponsive-breathing-child.aspx