What Happened To Madeleine McCann? - by Ian Horrocks.

[G-Unit]

No I don't include that time.  If an abductor removed Madeleine shortly after Gerry had left the apartment he wouldn't have known that Gerry was still in the vicinity and would have assumed he'd gone straight back to the table.

But Horrocks says they are well organised. They wouldn't just count the McCann's checks and ignore the rest of the group trotting up and down. That would be stupid. So would assuming that Gerry had gone back to the table.

[Mr Gray]

But Horrocks says they are well organised. They wouldn't just count the McCann's checks and ignore the rest of the group trotting up and down. That would be stupid. So would assuming that Gerry had gone back to the table.

Horrocks has some credibility and has been to Luz
He says an abduction is possible and fairly easy
That seems a reasonable conclusion

[Alfie]

But Horrocks says they are well organised. They wouldn't just count the McCann's checks and ignore the rest of the group trotting up and down. That would be stupid. So would assuming that Gerry had gone back to the table.

Trotting by being the operative observation, not entering the apartment.  Why would it be stupid to assume Gerry had left the apartment to go back to the table?  Did stopping and chatting with passers-by next to the apartment figure in his regular routine each evening?

[Alfie]

Neither he nor Jez mentioned whispering so I very much doubt it.

Jane Tanner mentions not being able to hear what either man was saying as she passed by them so....

[G-Unit]

Horrocks has some credibility and has been to Luz
He says an abduction is possible and fairly easy
That seems a reasonable conclusion

I don't see how going to Luz helps, to be honest. He would have been better advised to read the files and familiarise himself with the known facts. The timeline according to the T9 is a fact (three times they wrote it down). Reading that destroys his twenty minute window of opportunity.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

[Robittybob1]

I don't see how going to Luz helps, to be honest. He would have been better advised to read the files and familiarise himself with the known facts. The timeline according to the T9 is a fact (three times they wrote it down). Reading that destroys his twenty minute window of opportunity.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

But did they need 20 minutes?

[G-Unit]

Trotting by being the operative observation, not entering the apartment.  Why would it be stupid to assume Gerry had left the apartment to go back to the table?  Did stopping and chatting with passers-by next to the apartment figure in his regular routine each evening?

You said he/they would have made that assumption. Where were they when they made the assumption then?

[G-Unit]

But did they need 20 minutes?

The point is the credibility of an ex copper who clearly hasn't done his research before spouting off, not how long was needed.

[Benice]

But did they need 20 minutes?

No - they could have been in and out -  and a fair way off in 4/5 mins,   Especially if it was pre-planned and  they had a car waiting  nearby.
IMO

[Robittybob1]

The point is the credibility of an ex copper who clearly hasn't done his research before spouting off, not how long was needed.

Are we even sure which 20 minute period he is talking of? 

No - they could have been in and out -  and a fair way off in 4/5 mins,   Especially if it was pre-planned and  they had a car waiting  nearby.
IMO

That could be right and even if it wasn't that well planned it wouldn't take much longer.

[Brietta]

Trotting by being the operative observation, not entering the apartment.  Why would it be stupid to assume Gerry had left the apartment to go back to the table?  Did stopping and chatting with passers-by next to the apartment figure in his regular routine each evening?

Much has been made of the lack of evidence supporting a burglary ... "nothing was taken".

Madeleine was taken though ... which suggests she was the target.

If entry was made from the pool side ... it would have taken seconds to establish she was not in the first bedroom if they didn't already know exactly where to find her.
If entry was made from the car park side ... it would have taken seconds to find her.
The whole episode could have been concluded in the space of appx two minutes given some preparation.

Ian Horrocks has spent a lifetime dealing with serious crime.  It is risible to dismiss his informed opinion on this scenario out of hand because it does not fit the narrative propounded on various internet fora.

[Eleanor]

But did they need 20 minutes?

Nope.  Five minutes would have been more than enough.

[stephen25000]

Much has been made of the lack of evidence supporting a burglary ... "nothing was taken".

Madeleine was taken though ... which suggests she was the target.

If entry was made from the pool side ... it would have taken seconds to establish she was not in the first bedroom if they didn't already know exactly where to find her.
If entry was made from the car park side ... it would have taken seconds to find her.
The whole episode could have been concluded in the space of appx two minutes given some preparation.

Ian Horrocks has spent a lifetime dealing with serious crime.  It is risible to dismiss his informed opinion on this scenario out of hand because it does not fit the narrative propounded on various internet fora.

We don't know she was taken.

Quite possible she walked out of the apartment.

[Alfie]

You said he/they would have made that assumption. Where were they when they made the assumption then?

Where was the abductor when he hade the assumption that Gerry had returned to the table?  After checking via the window that there was no one about, picking up Madeleine and at the front door of the apartment ready to leave - possibly. 

[Robittybob1]

We don't know she was taken.

Quite possible she walked out of the apartment.

Not often we agree on anything.  But if she walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?