UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Angelo222 on December 27, 2019, 09:39:24 PM

Title: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on December 27, 2019, 09:39:24 PM
Madeleine McCann's parents' poignant Christmas message to supporters.

By James Rodger
Published on 26 December 2019

Kate and Gerry McCann posted the message as they face their 13th Christmas without their daughter, who vanished aged three while the family were on holiday in Portugal.

The parents of Madeleine McCann have said the search continues with "unwavering commitment" in a Christmas message to supporters.

The message, on the official Find Madeleine Facebook page, said "nothing has changed".

It added: "We love her, we miss her, we hope as always.

"Thank you to all our supporters for your steadfastness and compassion this year again and your warm Christmas wishes."

"Thank you to all our supporters for your steadfastness and compassion this year again and your warm Christmas wishes."
Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, both doctors and devout Catholics, have always pledged never to give up the search for their daughter.

In a statement, the 12th anniversary of her disappearance, they said: "The months and years roll by too quickly, Madeleine will be 16 this month.

"It's impossible to put into words just how that makes us feel.

"There is comfort and reassurance though in knowing that the investigation continues and many people around the world remain vigilant.

"Thank you to everyone who continues to support us and for your ongoing hope and belief.

Scotland Yard launched an investigation, Operation Grange, into her disappearance in 2013 after a Portuguese inquiry failed to make any headway.

So far the investigation has cost £11.75 million with the Home Office agreeing to fund the hunt for Madeleine until at least March next year.

Her whereabouts remain unknown, but the case has recently been thrown back into the spotlight by a new eight-part Netflix series.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-poignant-christmas-17473738
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on December 27, 2019, 09:48:42 PM
Let's hope Netflix sticks to the established facts in the case and not get carried away by semantics or threats of litigation which the McCann love to roll out when it suits.

I also hope they expose the criminal conduct by certain individuals post disappearance for which they have yet to answer.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on December 27, 2019, 09:54:33 PM
Let's hope Netflix sticks to the established facts in the case and not get carried away by semantics or threats of litigation which the McCann love to roll out when it suits.

The programme was earlier this year and stuck to the facts.. Sandra Figuerras called amaral a liar as I recall
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on December 27, 2019, 10:02:18 PM
Let's hope Netflix sticks to the established facts in the case and not get carried away by semantics or threats of litigation which the McCann love to roll out when it suits.

I also hope they expose the criminal conduct by certain individuals post disappearance for which they have yet to answer.

I think theres only you asking... That's why there's been no answer
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 27, 2019, 11:31:31 PM
Let's hope Netflix sticks to the established facts in the case and not get carried away by semantics or threats of litigation which the McCann love to roll out when it suits.

I also hope they expose the criminal conduct by certain individuals post disappearance for which they have yet to answer.
Have you had your meeting with the PJ yet?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on December 30, 2019, 04:34:43 PM
Madeleine McCann's parents' poignant Christmas message to supporters.

By James Rodger
Published on 26 December 2019

Kate and Gerry McCann posted the message as they face their 13th Christmas without their daughter, who vanished aged three while the family were on holiday in Portugal.

The parents of Madeleine McCann have said the search continues with "unwavering commitment" in a Christmas message to supporters.

The message, on the official Find Madeleine Facebook page, said "nothing has changed".

It added: "We love her, we miss her, we hope as always.

"Thank you to all our supporters for your steadfastness and compassion this year again and your warm Christmas wishes."

"Thank you to all our supporters for your steadfastness and compassion this year again and your warm Christmas wishes."
Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, both doctors and devout Catholics, have always pledged never to give up the search for their daughter.

In a statement, the 12th anniversary of her disappearance, they said: "The months and years roll by too quickly, Madeleine will be 16 this month.

"It's impossible to put into words just how that makes us feel.

"There is comfort and reassurance though in knowing that the investigation continues and many people around the world remain vigilant.

"Thank you to everyone who continues to support us and for your ongoing hope and belief.

Scotland Yard launched an investigation, Operation Grange, into her disappearance in 2013 after a Portuguese inquiry failed to make any headway.

So far the investigation has cost £11.75 million with the Home Office agreeing to fund the hunt for Madeleine until at least March next year.

Her whereabouts remain unknown, but the case has recently been thrown back into the spotlight by a new eight-part Netflix series.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-poignant-christmas-17473738
Oh they went to the media- how enterprising of them, how much 'following' do they have in the UK?  and why do parents of other children not thank people via the media who write to them letters of support? ?{)(**

Some really gob smacking quotes:


"The search for Madeleine goes on with unwavering commitment".


So tell us about this unwavering commitment, what does it entail?

" both doctors and devout Catholics, have always pledged never to give up the search for their daughter.
"

hardly devout Catholics- with their foul language on display. What search have they been doing?

"There is comfort and reassurance though in knowing that the investigation continues and many people around the world remain vigilant."

Fanciful statement many people round the world being vigilant. a few fanatics yes ..maybe...

Do they trot off round the world to see for themselves these'sightings'
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 30, 2019, 06:42:05 PM
Oh they went to the media- how enterprising of them, how much 'following' do they have in the UK?  and why do parents of other children not thank people via the media who write to them letters of support? ?{)(**

Some really gob smacking quotes:


"The search for Madeleine goes on with unwavering commitment".


So tell us about this unwavering commitment, what does it entail?

" both doctors and devout Catholics, have always pledged never to give up the search for their daughter.
"

hardly devout Catholics- with their foul language on display. What search have they been doing?

"There is comfort and reassurance though in knowing that the investigation continues and many people around the world remain vigilant."

Fanciful statement many people round the world being vigilant. a few fanatics yes ..maybe...

Do they trot off round the world to see for themselves these'sightings'
what an unpleasant rant imo.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on December 30, 2019, 06:50:16 PM
Oh they went to the media- how enterprising of them, how much 'following' do they have in the UK?  and why do parents of other children not thank people via the media who write to them letters of support? ?{)(**

Some really gob smacking quotes:


"The search for Madeleine goes on with unwavering commitment".


So tell us about this unwavering commitment, what does it entail?

" both doctors and devout Catholics, have always pledged never to give up the search for their daughter.
"

hardly devout Catholics- with their foul language on display. What search have they been doing?

"There is comfort and reassurance though in knowing that the investigation continues and many people around the world remain vigilant."

Fanciful statement many people round the world being vigilant. a few fanatics yes ..maybe...

Do they trot off round the world to see for themselves these'sightings'

this is a message specifically directed to supporters...so its none of your business..you aren't expected to like it and no one really cares what you think of it
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 30, 2019, 07:28:50 PM
this is a message specifically directed to supporters...so its none of your business..you aren't expected to like it and no one really cares what you think of it
I do.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 30, 2019, 08:16:57 PM
I do.
Why?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on December 30, 2019, 08:20:56 PM
I do.

why is MIDs opinion important to you
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on December 30, 2019, 08:23:12 PM
this is a message specifically directed to supporters...so its none of your business..you aren't expected to like it and no one really cares what you think of it

An exclusive club is it? Perhaps a public social media platform is the wrong place to have their private little chats then.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on December 30, 2019, 08:25:21 PM
An exclusive club is it? Perhaps a public social media platform is the wrong place to have their private little chats then.

Its clearly a message for supporters...it isnt private...as that what it says. What sceptics think is of no importance.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on December 30, 2019, 08:31:32 PM
An exclusive club is it? Perhaps a public social media platform is the wrong place to have their private little chats then.


Its a supporters ball and sceptics can't play.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 30, 2019, 08:32:09 PM
'Devout catholics', but no wee note of thanks to their god?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on December 30, 2019, 08:35:30 PM

Its a supporters ball and sceptics can't play.

of course you can play...its what makes you happy
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on December 30, 2019, 08:36:08 PM
Its clearly a message for supporters...it isnt private...as that what it says. What sceptics think is of no importance.

Neither is what 3.3K supporters think.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on December 30, 2019, 08:36:59 PM
Neither is what 3.3K supporters think.

There's that many on this forum?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on December 30, 2019, 08:38:17 PM
Neither is what 3.3K supporters think.

ive never said it was. ...whats important ....in this context...is what the two investigations think...neither it seems see the mccanns as suspects
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 30, 2019, 08:39:24 PM
Neither is what 3.3K supporters think.
What does that figure refer to?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on December 30, 2019, 08:40:31 PM
Neither is what 3.3K supporters think.

i havent even looked at the fb page..it obviously holds an interest for you
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 30, 2019, 08:41:23 PM
'Devout catholics', but no wee note of thanks to their god?
Thanks to God are usually put in prayers, not posted on Facebook - He doesn’t do Social Media.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 30, 2019, 08:43:41 PM
Thanks to God are usually put in prayers, not posted on Facebook - He doesn’t do Social Media.
Doesn't seem too keen on helping either.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 30, 2019, 08:57:26 PM
Doesn't seem too keen on helping either.
The McCanns have stayed out of prison for the last 12 years - God is obviously on their side.  8(0(*
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 30, 2019, 09:25:40 PM
The McCanns have stayed out of prison for the last 12 years - God is obviously on their side.  8(0(*
"Well, I'll put it this way: you can certainly say belief in God makes people behave worse. That can be proved beyond a doubt." C Hitchens.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on December 30, 2019, 09:31:42 PM
"Well, I'll put it this way: you can certainly say belief in God makes people behave worse. That can be proved beyond a doubt." C Hitchens.

He's wrong... Bless him..... It makes some people behave worse..
I believe in the power of Good.. As opposed to God
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 30, 2019, 09:44:30 PM
He's wrong... Bless him..... It makes some people behave worse..
I believe in the power of Good.. As opposed to God
There's context to that quote that I won't bore you with it any further.
I'm offtopicular enough as it is and will face further censure.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on December 30, 2019, 09:50:59 PM
There's context to that quote that I won't bore you with any further.
I'm offtopicular enough as it is and will face further censure.

I'm sure I'm aware of it... God told the 911 hijackers to bomb the twin towers then told Bush to bomb Iraq... What was he thinking
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Erngath on December 30, 2019, 10:16:27 PM
"Well, I'll put it this way: you can certainly say belief in God makes people behave worse. That can be proved beyond a doubt." C Hitchens.

There are people who believe in God who behave badly.
There are people who don't believe in God who behave badly.
There are people who believe in God and who behave in a loving way.
There are people who don't believe in God who behave in a loving way.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 30, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
"Well, I'll put it this way: you can certainly say belief in God makes people behave worse. That can be proved beyond a doubt." C Hitchens.
you think belief in God made the McCanns chuck their daughter’s body in the bin?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 30, 2019, 10:31:15 PM
you think belief in God made the McCanns chuck their daughter’s body in the bin?
Your penchant for distilling any obscure post down to a trope you can understand, albeit erroneously, is endearing.
Davel and I were having a more general, embrionic discussion encompassing moral relativism, morality and religion and the relationship between religious views and morals and the inherent value frameworks regarding personal behaviour.

Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 30, 2019, 10:34:23 PM
Your penchant for distilling any obscure post down to a trope you can understand, albeit erroneously, is endearing.
Davel and I were having a more general, embrionic discussion encompassing moral relativism, morality and religion and the relationship between religious views and morals and the inherent value frameworks regarding personal behaviour.
Let’s keep on topic shall we?  You brought up their devout Catholicism, you reckoned God had abandoned them, you claimed belief in God makes people do bad things.  What is a person supposed to take from you inane witterings?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 30, 2019, 10:38:06 PM
Let’s keep on topic shall we?  You brought up their devout Catholicism, you reckoned God had abandoned them, you claimed belief in God makes people do bad things.  What is a person supposed to take from you inane witterings?
I actually attempted to re-rail this thread earlier, but you asked me a question.
Let's get back to the topic; the grown ups are talking now.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 30, 2019, 10:46:06 PM
I actually attempted to re-rail this thread earlier, but you asked me a question.
Let's get back to the topic; the grown ups are talking now.
Yeah, the topic is - mocking the McCanns for making a post thanking their supporters on Facebook.  Got another angle apart from the religion one yet to take the piss with?. 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 30, 2019, 11:08:49 PM
Yeah, the topic is - mocking the McCanns for making a post thanking their supporters on Facebook.  Got another angle apart from the religion one yet to take the piss with?.
OK, what is it? A sincere, carefully worded 'Christmas Card' to their supporters?
I've got no truck with that. As Davel said earlier, it's got nothing to do with me. So much so that I haven't read the original version - I don't have Facepage - so the regurgitated Birmingham Mail version is the one I've seen.
I probably wouldn't have even seen it if it wasn't on here.

But I'm an agitant atheist and can't keep my goddam mouth shut - that's why all of my posts are being individually monitored by an unseen, omnipotent judge................ - O M G ........like god!!!
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 30, 2019, 11:14:57 PM
OK, what is it? A sincere, carefully worded 'Christmas Card' to their supporters?
I've got no truck with that. As Davel said earlier, it's got nothing to do with me. So much so that I haven't read the original version - I don't have Facepage - so the regurgitated Birmingham Mail version is the one I've seen.
I probably wouldn't have even seen it if it wasn't on here.

But I'm an agitant atheist and can't keep my goddam mouth shut - that's why all of my posts are being individually monitored by an unseen, omnipotent judge................ - O M G ........like god!!!
Yawn.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 30, 2019, 11:20:49 PM
Yawn.
Bless you, my son / daughter.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 30, 2019, 11:37:24 PM
Bless you, my son / daughter.
you need to up your game Sonny. 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 30, 2019, 11:50:04 PM
you need to up your game Sonny.
My game has been moderated out of existence, alas. Forum's loss.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: faithlilly on December 30, 2019, 11:54:28 PM
Its clearly a message for supporters...it isnt private...as that what it says. What sceptics think is of no importance.

Just as a little add-too, everyone here who pays tax in the UK is a supporter ( willingly or unwillingly ) and therefore is entitled to an opinion as it is us all who are paying for the fallout from the parent’s wilful neglect.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on December 30, 2019, 11:59:19 PM
OK, what is it? A sincere, carefully worded 'Christmas Card' to their supporters?
I've got no truck with that. As Davel said earlier, it's got nothing to do with me. So much so that I haven't read the original version - I don't have Facepage - so the regurgitated Birmingham Mail version is the one I've seen.
I probably wouldn't have even seen it if it wasn't on here.

But I'm an agitant atheist and can't keep my goddam mouth shut - that's why all of my posts are being individually monitored by an unseen, omnipotent judge................ - O M G ........like god!!!

Christmas 2019

Nothing has changed.....we love her, we miss her, we hope as always.

The search for Madeleine goes on with unwavering commitment.

Thank you to all our supporters for your steadfastness and compassion this year again and your warm Christmas wishes.

Wishing you a very happy 2020.

Kate & Gerry

(https://scontent.flhr2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/80233742_10157763097929931_1771015732847443968_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ohc=3c0otQKRUd8AQmfBeAwQNaMVi-WrMufNBPnpRNBdab2DOEDvB25XHWKNQ&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-2.fna&oh=0e9687215082173037f6024ed95a145e&oe=5EB23CF8)

https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find.Madeleine.Campaign/

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2654.msg567027#msg567027
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: faithlilly on December 31, 2019, 12:18:03 AM
Christmas 2019

Nothing has changed.....we love her, we miss her, we hope as always.

The search for Madeleine goes on with unwavering commitment.

Thank you to all our supporters for your steadfastness and compassion this year again and your warm Christmas wishes.

Wishing you a very happy 2020.

Kate & Gerry

(https://scontent.flhr2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/80233742_10157763097929931_1771015732847443968_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ohc=3c0otQKRUd8AQmfBeAwQNaMVi-WrMufNBPnpRNBdab2DOEDvB25XHWKNQ&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-2.fna&oh=0e9687215082173037f6024ed95a145e&oe=5EB23CF8)

https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find.Madeleine.Campaign/

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2654.msg567027#msg567027

My do they sound bored ! Even they can’t be bothered writing something with a smidgen of emotion.

Unwavering commitment? By whom ? Certainly not them. Even the sporadic updating of their Facebook page seems to be an effort these days.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on December 31, 2019, 12:30:55 AM
My do they sound bored ! Even they can’t be bothered writing something with a smidgen of emotion.

Unwavering commitment? By whom ? Certainly not them. Even the sporadic updating of their Facebook page seems to be an effort these days.

Their idea of searching is a sick joke imo.

"The parents of Madeleine McCann have said the search continues with "unwavering commitment" in a Christmas message to supporters."
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: carlymichelle on December 31, 2019, 12:41:59 AM
OK, what is it? A sincere, carefully worded 'Christmas Card' to their supporters?
I've got no truck with that. As Davel said earlier, it's got nothing to do with me. So much so that I haven't read the original version - I don't have Facepage - so the regurgitated Birmingham Mail version is the one I've seen.
I probably wouldn't have even seen it if it wasn't on here.

But I'm an agitant atheist and can't keep my goddam mouth shut - that's why all of my posts are being individually monitored by an unseen, omnipotent judge................ - O M G ........like god!!!
im  also  a  atheist i have  always believed   religon causes trouble and   war 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 31, 2019, 07:21:47 AM
My do they sound bored ! Even they can’t be bothered writing something with a smidgen of emotion.

Unwavering commitment? By whom ? Certainly not them. Even the sporadic updating of their Facebook page seems to be an effort these days.
Have they posted their accounts on time?  Be sure to let us know - we’re all agog.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on December 31, 2019, 07:35:29 AM
im  also  a  atheist i have  always believed   religon causes trouble and   war
No God created the most important trinity of all,H2O.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on December 31, 2019, 07:36:43 AM
Have they posted their accounts on time?  Be sure to let us know - we’re all agog.
Sounds like you've looked.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 31, 2019, 09:49:21 AM
Christmas 2019

Nothing has changed.....we love her, we miss her, we hope as always.

The search for Madeleine goes on with unwavering commitment.

Thank you to all our supporters for your steadfastness and compassion this year again and your warm Christmas wishes.

Wishing you a very happy 2020.

Kate & Gerry

(https://scontent.flhr2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/80233742_10157763097929931_1771015732847443968_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ohc=3c0otQKRUd8AQmfBeAwQNaMVi-WrMufNBPnpRNBdab2DOEDvB25XHWKNQ&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-2.fna&oh=0e9687215082173037f6024ed95a145e&oe=5EB23CF8)

https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find.Madeleine.Campaign/

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2654.msg567027#msg567027
Nice font.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: carlymichelle on December 31, 2019, 11:24:48 AM
well its  10.24pm here in australia   summer time so not long to  12am     so  happy new year
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 11:28:02 AM
well its  10.24pm here in australia   summer time so not long to  12am     so  happy new year

Thank You, Carly.

There is a while to go here yet.

Best Hope for The McCanns and Madeleine.  Hope is All.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 31, 2019, 11:37:11 AM
well its  10.24pm here in australia   summer time so not long to  12am     so  happy new year

It's difficult to quite get my head around the time difference of our Antipodean friends.  It's coming up to lunchtime here, and we are prepping for Gonçalo's big birthday bash, because he has now reached the venerable age of two - a teenager in human terms.

Chinese and Indian to eat.  No fireworks at this end.

Enjoy the new decade!
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on December 31, 2019, 11:42:58 AM
Thank You, Carly.

There is a while to go here yet.

Best Hope for The McCanns and Madeleine.  Hope is All.

A little over 17 months til she'd be 18,ward of court runs out reaching adulthood,do Grange have that little time left remembering Rowley:It won't go on for as long as it has.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 11:48:54 AM
A little over 17 months til she'd be 18,ward of court runs out reaching adulthood,do Grange have that little time left remembering Rowley:It won't go on for as long as it has.

Why should that matter?  Minors can't just be snatched off the streets.

At eighteen Madeleine would become her own person.  While in the meantime Operation Grange could well be just keeping track.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on December 31, 2019, 11:51:49 AM
Why should that matter?  Minors can't just be snatched off the streets.

At eighteen Madeleine would become her own person.  While in the meantime Operation Grange could well be just keeping track.

People forget if she's still alive she is no longer a minor,of course the McCann would miss her as the child,but reality is nothing like 2007.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 11:53:53 AM
People forget if she's still alive she is no longer a minor,of course the McCann would miss her as the child,but reality is nothing like 2007.

What has that got to do with anything?  She is still Madeleine McCann and still their daughter.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on December 31, 2019, 12:10:42 PM
What has that got to do with anything?  She is still Madeleine McCann and still their daughter.

But surely nothing like the person she once was - assuming she is still alive, of course.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 12:13:11 PM
But surely nothing like the person she once was - assuming she is still alive, of course.

Well, she wouldn't be, would she.  But you don't stop loving a child just because they have changed.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on December 31, 2019, 12:18:36 PM
People forget if she's still alive she is no longer a minor,of course the McCann would miss her as the child,but reality is nothing like 2007.

Do you really think that no-one knows that better than Madeleine's mother and father; why do you attempt to belittle them by suggesting such? ... in my opinion it does no such thing.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on December 31, 2019, 12:22:52 PM
Why should that matter?  Minors can't just be snatched off the streets.

At eighteen Madeleine would become her own person.  While in the meantime Operation Grange could well be just keeping track.


She is no longer that minor,how do Grange go about finding her?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 12:24:24 PM

She is no longer that minor,how do Grange go about finding her?

They already have found her.  In My Opinion.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 31, 2019, 12:35:23 PM
They already have found her.  In My Opinion.

Well what are they waiting for?  Christmas?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on December 31, 2019, 12:36:44 PM
They already have found her.  In My Opinion.


Do you think the McCanns know?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 12:37:12 PM
Well what are they waiting for?  Christmas?

Use your common sense, will you.  Madeleine is still a minor.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on December 31, 2019, 12:38:36 PM
Use your common sense, will you.  Madeleine is still a minor.


In the Uk possibly,what of the country you believe her to be?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 12:38:53 PM

Do you think the McCanns know?

I wouldn't want to guess about that.  It would be mortal hard if they did.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 31, 2019, 12:40:52 PM
Use your common sense, will you.  Madeleine is still a minor.

What difference does that make?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 12:42:43 PM
What difference does that make?

You know nothing about The Law, do you.  No matter how true it still has to be proven.  How would you go about that?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 31, 2019, 12:44:06 PM
You know nothing about The Law, do you.  No matter how true it still has to be proven.  How would you go about that?

That magical thing called DNA.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 12:45:46 PM
That magical thing called DNA.

And how do you go about getting that, with chain of evidence if her "Parents" refuse?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on December 31, 2019, 12:48:17 PM
That magical thing called DNA.

First of all a sample has to be retrieved for testing.

We have no way of knowing if that is achievable nor do we have any way of knowing if that has already been done.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 31, 2019, 12:50:19 PM
And how do you go about getting that, with chain of evidence if her "Parents" refuse?

They've got her under surveillance by all 4 SY officers haven't they?

If she ever ate at a restaurant or smoked a stogie, bingo.

Alternatively they could just seize the bin bags from her house, bound to have her DNA in there.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on December 31, 2019, 12:56:55 PM
And how do you go about getting that, with chain of evidence if her "Parents" refuse?

Isn't it already available to the PJ given that her hairbrush was made available shortly after she disappeared?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on December 31, 2019, 12:58:45 PM
They've got her under surveillance by all 4 SY officers haven't they?

If she ever ate at a restaurant or smoked a stogie, bingo.

Alternatively they could just seize the bin bags from her house, bound to have her DNA in there.

They could of course just roll up to the national police force and say,look we need to rule this child out or in,Interpol or even the Foreign Office could/should be involved.Imagine if SY were acting illegally in their surveillance.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on December 31, 2019, 01:20:30 PM
They've got her under surveillance by all 4 SY officers haven't they?

If she ever ate at a restaurant or smoked a stogie, bingo.

Alternatively they could just seize the bin bags from her house, bound to have her DNA in there.


Good thinking   8((()*/
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on December 31, 2019, 01:33:07 PM
They could of course just roll up to the national police force and say,look we need to rule this child out or in,Interpol or even the Foreign Office could/should be involved.Imagine if SY were acting illegally in their surveillance.

As an idea, 'surveillance' may sound doable. In reality it's a complex operation using more resources than Operation Grange have at their disposal. Another country's police force would do it only if there was clear evidence that there was a good reason for doing it and a clear end date imo.

Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on December 31, 2019, 01:34:16 PM
They've got her under surveillance by all 4 SY officers haven't they?

If she ever ate at a restaurant or smoked a stogie, bingo.

Alternatively they could just seize the bin bags from her house, bound to have her DNA in there.

Hardly given she hasn't been around for 12 years.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 31, 2019, 01:43:12 PM
Hardly given she hasn't been around for 12 years.

I was talking about the house she is currently living in, where SY have her under surveillance.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on December 31, 2019, 02:04:27 PM
As an idea, 'surveillance' may sound doable. In reality it's a complex operation using more resources than Operation Grange have at their disposal. Another country's police force would do it only if there was clear evidence that there was a good reason for doing it and a clear end date imo.
Do you suppose that police forces of different countries don't routinely communicate with and cooperate with each other in certain circumstances as it is ?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on December 31, 2019, 02:18:41 PM
Do you suppose that police forces of different countries don't routinely communicate with and cooperate with each other in certain circumstances as it is ?

Surveillance was the subject of discussion. Operation Grange don't have the personnel to do it in the UK. They don't have jurisdiction to do it elsewhere. Another police force would require very strong evidence to persuade them to do it imo. If Op Grange have very strong evidence then it would be used to question the people concerned, not watch them.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on December 31, 2019, 02:24:20 PM
Surveillance was the subject of discussion. Operation Grange don't have the personnel to do it in the UK. They don't have jurisdiction to do it elsewhere. Another police force would require very strong evidence to persuade them to do it imo. If Op Grange have very strong evidence then it would be used to question the people concerned, not watch them.

Perhaps police in another country located Madeleine on their turf and are cooperating with Scotland Yard.  Every bit as plausible as anything you've suggested.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on December 31, 2019, 02:40:16 PM
I was talking about the house she is currently living in, where SY have her under surveillance.

Is this an April Fool thread?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on December 31, 2019, 02:42:29 PM
Surveillance was the subject of discussion. Operation Grange don't have the personnel to do it in the UK. They don't have jurisdiction to do it elsewhere. Another police force would require very strong evidence to persuade them to do it imo. If Op Grange have very strong evidence then it would be used to question the people concerned, not watch them.

I think people are seriously deluding themselves if they believe for a moment that there is currently any serious attempts being made to find Maddie. Truth is that it just ain't happening.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on December 31, 2019, 02:45:55 PM
Is this an April Fool thread?

You could be forgiven for thinking so   ?{)(**
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on December 31, 2019, 02:47:57 PM
I think people are seriously deluding themselves if they believe for a moment that there is currently any serious attempts being made to find Maddie. Truth is that it just ain't happening.

holly says this is exactly whats happening....thanks to her telling SY exactly where to look...interesting you find that delusional...I must say i  totally agree with you
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 03:31:18 PM
Isn't it already available to the PJ given that her hairbrush was made available shortly after she disappeared?

As of Now.  Wherever she is.  Chain of Evidence is required.  Any old cup from God knows where will not do.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 03:35:08 PM

Good thinking   8((()*/

Chain of Evidence.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 03:36:19 PM
As an idea, 'surveillance' may sound doable. In reality it's a complex operation using more resources than Operation Grange have at their disposal. Another country's police force would do it only if there was clear evidence that there was a good reason for doing it and a clear end date imo.

Some Countries are a bit precious about the rights of their citizens.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Anthro on December 31, 2019, 03:50:18 PM
Perhaps police in another country located Madeleine on their turf and are cooperating with Scotland Yard.  Every bit as plausible as anything you've suggested.

I too think it’s possible, Brietta. In Zephany Nurse’s case, she was only reunited with her biological parents a year after she was found when she was 17 years old. She spent that year in the care of social services. Her identity was only revealed to the public after 5 years.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 03:53:48 PM
Surveillance was the subject of discussion. Operation Grange don't have the personnel to do it in the UK. They don't have jurisdiction to do it elsewhere. Another police force would require very strong evidence to persuade them to do it imo. If Op Grange have very strong evidence then it would be used to question the people concerned, not watch them.

Private Investigators on the ground.

Having paid the four SY Police Officers there is a tidy sum left over which is being spent on something.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on December 31, 2019, 04:07:38 PM
Chain of Evidence.

Don't need it.
Get the rubbish & check for DNA.
Get a positive result and leak it to McCann.
They can arrange a snatch and get Clarence to give it max publicity.
Job done    ?{)(**
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 31, 2019, 04:08:46 PM
Chain of Evidence.

So how have SY managed to locate Maddie, without any evidence.

Did they just bump into her in the street?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on December 31, 2019, 04:08:54 PM
Private Investigators on the ground.

Having paid the four SY Police Officers there is a tidy sum left over which is being spent on something.
I assume the initial funds had been exhausted, so the last payout is left. £150k / 4 donut munchers = £37500 - March to March. Low paid donut munchers. In a different country. No expenses. No digs. Churros all round though.

Besides, if she was in some sort of protective custody, OG wouldn't need any money.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on December 31, 2019, 04:59:59 PM
I too think it’s possible, Brietta. In Zephany Nurse’s case, she was only reunited with her biological parents a year after she was found when she was 17 years old. She spent that year in the care of social services. Her identity was only revealed to the public after 5 years.

Although I knew there were terrible difficulties for all concerned, I didn't know that it took a year for her to be reunited with her biological parents.  Not surprising when you think of her having to come to terms with her whole life not being what she thought it was and that she wasn't who she thought she was.

It seems she was never taken too far away from where she was born if her biological sister ended up attending the same school she did.  Quite a remarkable story showing that the impossible does happen.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on December 31, 2019, 05:13:02 PM

Okay, fine.  Who cares?

Most Supporters are only interested The Law and Evidence.  What the rest of you think is of no importance to me what so ever.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 31, 2019, 05:26:03 PM
Okay, fine.  Who cares?

Most Supporters are only interested The Law and Evidence.  What the rest of you think is of no importance to me what so ever.

You give up so soon?

I really thought you were on to something with that Maddie under surveillance theory.

Maybe 2020 will be the year she comes home, I wouldn't put the bunting out just yet though.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 31, 2019, 05:41:10 PM
Sounds like you've looked.
Nope, I rely on Faithlilly to keep us abreast of their accounting failures.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on December 31, 2019, 05:46:52 PM
My feelings on the matter (not that anyone is interested I know, no need to. tell me) are that if there is evidence at Madeleine is alive it is from sightings on the dark web, in the form of child sex abuse videos, and that investigations if they are on-going are focused on trying to trace her via the virtual world
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on December 31, 2019, 06:39:58 PM
My feelings on the matter (not that anyone is interested I know, no need to. tell me) are that if there is evidence at Madeleine is alive it is from sightings on the dark web, in the form of child sex abuse videos, and that investigations if they are on-going are focused on trying to trace her via the virtual world

Sadly that is an option although not one that I am too keen to dwell on but it cannot be dismissed.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Anthro on December 31, 2019, 07:16:43 PM
Although I knew there were terrible difficulties for all concerned, I didn't know that it took a year for her to be reunited with her biological parents.  Not surprising when you think of her having to come to terms with her whole life not being what she thought it was and that she wasn't who she thought she was.

It seems she was never taken too far away from where she was born if her biological sister ended up attending the same school she did.  Quite a remarkable story showing that the impossible does happen.

Yes, Brietta. It is remarkable. Only after 5 years since she had been found, she approached a court of law to be able to reveal her true identity and tell her story. She still is struggling with her identity. Both sets of parents (expect the Solomon father) knew the truth and she didn’t.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on December 31, 2019, 10:43:42 PM
My feelings on the matter (not that anyone is interested I know, no need to. tell me) are that if there is evidence at Madeleine is alive it is from sightings on the dark web, in the form of child sex abuse videos, and that investigations if they are on-going are focused on trying to trace her via the virtual world

Let's not forget that Maddie was a cash cow for some despite their pleadings to the contrary.  I find this annual ritual to be rather nauseating if I'm honest given what really went on 12 years ago.  One could say that some are attempting to rewrite history.

Where was this "unwavering commitment" back in 2007 when the police needed their full cooperation?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: sadie on January 01, 2020, 01:58:15 AM
They already have found her.  In My Opinion.

I think so, too.   8((()*/
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: sadie on January 01, 2020, 02:11:38 AM
My feelings on the matter (not that anyone is interested I know, no need to. tell me) are that if there is evidence at Madeleine is alive it is from sightings on the dark web, in the form of child sex abuse videos, and that investigations if they are on-going are focused on trying to trace her via the virtual world

No, I don't think so.  I believe she is being carefully cared for ... I don't think she has been sexually abused
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: sadie on January 01, 2020, 02:15:02 AM
My feelings on the matter (not that anyone is interested I know, no need to. tell me) are that if there is evidence at Madeleine is alive it is from sightings on the dark web, in the form of child sex abuse videos, and that investigations if they are on-going are focused on trying to trace her via the virtual world

I don't think she is on the dark web.   Her bloodline is too valuable and they would want to keep it pure.  IMO.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Myster on January 01, 2020, 04:00:37 AM
I don't think she is on the dark web.   Her bloodline is too valuable and they would want to keep it pure.  IMO.
It must be Royal blue then... the same colour as your box file on the top shelf-cum-shrine at OG's HQ.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 01, 2020, 10:05:18 AM
Let's not forget that Maddie was a cash cow for some despite their pleadings to the contrary.  I find this annual ritual to be rather nauseating if I'm honest given what really went on 12 years ago.  One could say that some are attempting to rewrite history.

Where was this "unwavering commitment" back in 2007 when the police needed their full cooperation?
What has your angry rant got to do with what I wrote?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 01, 2020, 10:46:41 AM
It must be Royal blue then... the same colour as your box file on the top shelf-cum-shrine at OG's HQ.  *%87
Oooh, that was a John Cena 'Attitude Adjuster', not just any old take down. BOOM!
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 01, 2020, 01:00:58 PM
Perhaps police in another country located Madeleine on their turf and are cooperating with Scotland Yard.  Every bit as plausible as anything you've suggested.

If those police have located Madeleine McCann why would they not have acted? Surveillance (which is the subject under discussion) will achieve what?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: sadie on January 01, 2020, 03:24:13 PM
Oooh, that was a John Cena 'Attitude Adjuster', not just any old take down. BOOM!

No, my box file was a deep lavender, not Royal Blue.   Looks like the phantom image alterer has been at work again if it has changed to Royal Blue.   So much for Justice if the phantom image alterers have the abilty and will to change things to suit themselves.


This means that JUSTICE is DEAD ... but nobody is interested   


Jeez !
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: sadie on January 01, 2020, 03:26:57 PM
It must be Royal blue then... the same colour as your box file on the top shelf-cum-shrine at OG's HQ.

No, my box file was a deep lavender, never Royal Blue.   Looks like the phantom image alterer has been at work again if it has changed to Royal Blue.   So much for Justice if the phantom image alterers have the abilty and will to change things to suit themselves.


This means that JUSTICE is DEAD ... but nobody is interested   


Jeez !
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 01, 2020, 09:41:29 PM
They already have found her.  In My Opinion.

I was wondering this! 

I recall from KM's PB that shortly after MM disappeared, on the advice of lawyer Edward Smethurst (think it was him), the McCanns changed something legally between themselves and MM? 

The age of majority in Portugal, as with many developed countries, is 18 yoa; I'm wondering if the authorities are just biding their time until MM reaches age of majority?   
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: sadie on January 02, 2020, 12:21:15 AM
I was wondering this! 

I recall from KM's PB that shortly after MM disappeared, on the advice of lawyer Edward Smethurst (think it was him), the McCanns changed something legally between themselves and MM? 

The age of majority in Portugal, as with many developed countries, is 18 yoa; I'm wondering if the authorities are just biding their time until MM reaches age of majority?

1.   I am wondering if the abductors ae waiting until a certain age before using her special DNA to produce a pure blood son or daughter.

2.   Doesn't bear to think about, but would it be by IVF?

That way, if Madeleine is found, it would be easier to escape severe punishment for sexually abusing her + paedophilia.

Nothing except DNA of the child to show parenthood ... and if it is a daughter, then nothing of the fathers DNA will show.  The male line has to come via a male parent and if suspects ae tested then there will be multitude of other males with a similar DNA, I think 

 

With a few carefully arranged embellishments, this appears to be a very clever way of avoiding proper punishment.



This is my problem.  There are no male members of my family living, so I cannot find out about my fathers DNA and its input into my known DNA from my mother.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 02, 2020, 10:25:22 AM
1.   I am wondering if the abductors ae waiting until a certain age before using her special DNA to produce a pure blood son or daughter.

2.   Doesn't bear to think about, but would it be by IVF?

That way, if Madeleine is found, it would be easier to escape severe punishment for sexually abusing her + paedophilia.

Nothing except DNA of the child to show parenthood ... and if it is a daughter, then nothing of the fathers DNA will show.  The male line has to come via a male parent and if suspects ae tested then there will be multitude of other males with a similar DNA, I think 

 

With a few carefully arranged embellishments, this appears to be a very clever way of avoiding proper punishment.



This is my problem.  There are no male members of my family living, so I cannot find out about my fathers DNA and its input into my known DNA from my mother.

1. 'Abductors' may or may not exist. Madeleine's 'special DNA' is not a fact, it's an opinion with no supporting evidence. There is no evidence that anyone wants to use Madeleine to breed from.

2. Whether a child is conceived naturally or by IVF it's DNA is made up of 50% from the mother and 50% from the father. If there's more than one male suspect for the fatherhood of a child DNA testing can find the culprit.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 02, 2020, 10:37:20 AM
1.   I am wondering if the abductors ae waiting until a certain age before using her special DNA to produce a pure blood son or daughter.

2.   Doesn't bear to think about, but would it be by IVF?

That way, if Madeleine is found, it would be easier to escape severe punishment for sexually abusing her + paedophilia.

Nothing except DNA of the child to show parenthood ... and if it is a daughter, then nothing of the fathers DNA will show.  The male line has to come via a male parent and if suspects ae tested then there will be multitude of other males with a similar DNA, I think 

With a few carefully arranged embellishments, this appears to be a very clever way of avoiding proper punishment.

This is my problem.  There are no male members of my family living, so I cannot find out about my fathers DNA and its input into my known DNA from my mother.
I know this has drifted off topic, but I'm intrigued. Please continue.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 11:30:05 AM
1.   I am wondering if the abductors ae waiting until a certain age before using her special DNA to produce a pure blood son or daughter.

2.   Doesn't bear to think about, but would it be by IVF?

That way, if Madeleine is found, it would be easier to escape severe punishment for sexually abusing her + paedophilia.

Nothing except DNA of the child to show parenthood ... and if it is a daughter, then nothing of the fathers DNA will show.  The male line has to come via a male parent and if suspects ae tested then there will be multitude of other males with a similar DNA, I think 

 

With a few carefully arranged embellishments, this appears to be a very clever way of avoiding proper punishment.



This is my problem.  There are no male members of my family living, so I cannot find out about my fathers DNA and its input into my known DNA from my mother.

Sadie what evidence do you have that supports the idea MM has special DNA and/or pure blood? 

GM and KM descend from working class Irish Catholic parents so how can MM be as you've described?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on January 02, 2020, 11:41:38 AM
Sadie what evidence do you have that supports the idea MM has special DNA and/or pure blood? 

GM and KM descend from working class Irish Catholic parents so how can MM be as you've described?

Sadie has done a lot of research into Surnames.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 02, 2020, 12:12:14 PM
Sadie has done a lot of research into Surnames.

In which case she should be able to explain how Madeleine McCann had, in her opinion, a special bloodline. Have we seen any such evidence? A family tree for example?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 02, 2020, 12:15:52 PM
Surnames can be changed for a variety of reasons, so aren't reliable in chasing down biological descent.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on January 02, 2020, 12:17:57 PM
In which case she should be able to explain how Madeleine McCann had, in her opinion, a special bloodline. Have we seen any such evidence? A family tree for example?

Perhaps if a few more people had paid a bit more attention instead of mocking Sadie then they would know a bit more about what Sadie was saying.

Sadly, a lot of Sadie's comments have been removed.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 02, 2020, 12:42:48 PM
Perhaps if a few more people had paid a bit more attention instead of mocking Sadie then they would know a bit more about what Sadie was saying.

Sadly, a lot of Sadie's comments have been removed.

And who is to blame for that?

Moderators, not us mere mortals.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 01:01:01 PM
Sadie has done a lot of research into Surnames.

And eminent scientists have done a lot of research into the origins of mankind.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on January 02, 2020, 01:10:10 PM
And who is to blame for that?

Moderators, not us mere mortals.

Sceptic Mods most likely.  And Sadie was fair game to them.

This was done in the days when Deletions didn't have to be Reported, so no one knew what was going on most of the time.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on January 02, 2020, 01:11:46 PM
And eminent scientists have done a lot of research into the origins of mankind.

Looking for Madeleine were they?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 01:14:12 PM
If MM is found alive and well with her abductors when/how would the McCanns be notified and would they have any say over how MM and her abductor(s) are handled by the authorities?

MM will have little or no memory of her former life and if treated well by her abductor(s) would have formed a bond with them probably viewing them as her parents.  The McCanns would be strangers to MM.  If the media got wind of such a story it would be impossible for MM to live a 'normal' life until the intense media interest subsided. 

Inevitably MM would learn about the circumstances of her disappearance ie McCanns wining and dining whilst she and her two younger siblings were left 'home alone' in the unsecured apartment night after night. Would MM want to be reunited with her parents? 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 01:15:40 PM
Looking for Madeleine were they?

Why would eminent biologists and the like be on the look out for MM?

Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on January 02, 2020, 01:19:32 PM
If MM is found alive and well with her abductors when/how would the McCanns be notified and would they have any say over how MM and her abductor(s) are handled by the authorities?

MM will have little or no memory of her former life and if treated well by her abductor(s) would have formed a bond with them probably viewing them as her parents.  The McCanns would be strangers to MM.  If the media got wind of such a story it would be impossible for MM to live a 'normal' life until the intense media interest subsided. 

Inevitably MM would learn about the circumstances of her disappearance ie McCanns wining and dining whilst she and her two younger siblings were left 'home alone' in the unsecured apartment night after night. Would MM want to be reunited with her parents?

I suspect that Madeleine would have more trouble dealing with nasty comments like this that have grossly exaggerated what happened.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 01:21:19 PM
If MM is found alive and well with her abductors when/how would the McCanns be notified and would they have any say over how MM and her abductor(s) are handled by the authorities?

MM will have little or no memory of her former life and if treated well by her abductor(s) would have formed a bond with them probably viewing them as her parents.  The McCanns would be strangers to MM.  If the media got wind of such a story it would be impossible for MM to live a 'normal' life until the intense media interest subsided. 

Inevitably MM would learn about the circumstances of her disappearance ie McCanns wining and dining whilst she and her two younger siblings were left 'home alone' in the unsecured apartment night after night. Would MM want to be reunited with her parents?

I'm sure I recall reading in KM's PB that the McCanns relinquished some legal status over MM based on advice from their lawyer? 

As MM has not yet reached the age of majority in Portugal and England who has legal responsibility for her? 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 01:22:12 PM
I suspect that Madeleine would have more trouble dealing with nasty comments like this that have grossly exaggerated what happened.

What is nasty and what is grossly exaggerated? 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 02, 2020, 01:23:37 PM
I'm sure I recall reading in KM's PB that the McCanns relinquished some legal status over MM based on advice from their lawyer? 

As MM has not yet reached the age of majority in Portugal and England who has legal responsibility for her?

She was made ward of court,17 months time I'd venture it would no longer apply.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2164743/Madeleine-McCann-parents-court-bid-for-information.html

The Telegraph can also disclose that Madeleine was made a ward of court last summer at the request of the McCanns, to empower judges to act in her best interests in any legal dispute such as the case which is about to be heard.

Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns’ spokesman, said: “I can state that on the instigation of Gerry and Kate McCann Madeleine is a ward of the High Court of England and Wales.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
The McCanns probably see MM as their little girl just about to turn 4 yoa and yet in a few weeks time MM will be 17 yoa and a year off the age of majority.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 02, 2020, 01:26:50 PM
I'm sure I recall reading in KM's PB that the McCanns relinquished some legal status over MM based on advice from their lawyer? 

As MM has not yet reached the age of majority in Portugal and England who has legal responsibility for her?

 She is likely to still be a Ward of Court of the British legal system, but the Family Court is not renowned  for its transparency, so we don't know for certainty
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 01:29:13 PM
She was made ward of court,17 months time I'd venture it would no longer apply.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2164743/Madeleine-McCann-parents-court-bid-for-information.html

The Telegraph can also disclose that Madeleine was made a ward of court last summer at the request of the McCanns, to empower judges to act in her best interests in any legal dispute such as the case which is about to be heard.

Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns’ spokesman, said: “I can state that on the instigation of Gerry and Kate McCann Madeleine is a ward of the High Court of England and Wales.


Thanks Barrier I thought it was something like that. 

So on this basis if MM is found I guess the High Court would decide how best to proceed based on MM's best interests. 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 01:32:17 PM
Thanks Barrier I thought it was something like that. 

So on this basis if MM is found I guess the High Court would decide how best to proceed based on MM's best interests.

But as you said in 16/17 months time this is unlikely to apply as MM will have reached the age of majority unless of course she is deemed vulnerable due to some mental/physical disability etc.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 02, 2020, 01:37:15 PM
All a bit hypothetical at the moment as there is nothing to suggest she is going to made an appearance in the near future.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 02, 2020, 01:40:26 PM
I'm sure its been covered before but...


This page explains the situation where the High Court can become a legal guardian for a child under the power of Wardship.

https://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/wardship/
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2020, 01:46:52 PM
If MM is found alive and well with her abductors when/how would the McCanns be notified and would they have any say over how MM and her abductor(s) are handled by the authorities?

MM will have little or no memory of her former life and if treated well by her abductor(s) would have formed a bond with them probably viewing them as her parents.  The McCanns would be strangers to MM.  If the media got wind of such a story it would be impossible for MM to live a 'normal' life until the intense media interest subsided. 

Inevitably MM would learn about the circumstances of her disappearance ie McCanns wining and dining whilst she and her two younger siblings were left 'home alone' in the unsecured apartment night after night. Would MM want to be reunited with her parents?

Anthro has posted about the traumatic case of Zephany Nurse who was kidnapped as an infant; there are also recent American examples and the children of the disappeared in Argentina.

Whatever the circumstances of a child being stolen it is almost never an easy transition back to what should be normal life for anyone involved.

To celebrate the added difficulties which Madeleine may experience if found alive as a result of a best selling book which decreed her dead and the hateful and continuing hate campaign which followed hard on its heels is disingenuous to say the least as her very survival would prove that all of that was wrong.

I think that anyone who participated in that campaign in any sort of way should be hanging their heads in black burning shame not crowing about further harm being done to a young woman whose life was stolen from her.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on January 02, 2020, 01:51:21 PM

This is why Kate wrote her book, so that Madeleine would know what actually happened.

Fortunately it made quite a lot of money to be spent on the search for Madeleine.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 02, 2020, 01:59:59 PM
And it gave SY the opportunity to get access to the suppressed Oakley file that contained Smithman efits.  HE was not allowed to talk about the file by McCann lawyers. Good old Smithman has them all rattled and for good reason  8)--))
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2020, 02:04:25 PM
The McCanns probably see MM as their little girl just about to turn 4 yoa and yet in a few weeks time MM will be 17 yoa and a year off the age of majority.

Why would you think Kate and Gerry have failed to notice the passing of the years since their daughter disappeared in 2007?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2020, 02:09:11 PM
All a bit hypothetical at the moment as there is nothing to suggest she is going to made an appearance in the near future.

This will come as a shock to you but I think you should be told that in my opinion there are people out there who wish no-one ever either finds a live Madeleine McCann or what happened to her since her disappearance in 2007.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 02, 2020, 02:16:04 PM
This will come as a shock to you but I think you should be told that in my opinion there are people out there who wish no-one ever either finds a live Madeleine McCann or what happened to her since her disappearance in 2007.

It come as no shock to me that you think along those lines.

I have often thought you have a very strange outlook on life.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2020, 02:46:02 PM
It come as no shock to me that you think along those lines.

I have often thought you have a very strange outlook on life.

You are slipping up  bit with that post ... not like you to get the wrong side of the rules 😎
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Erngath on January 02, 2020, 02:57:52 PM
It come as no shock to me that you think along those lines.

I have often thought you have a very strange outlook on life.

I admire the  outlook Brietta has on life.
Always seems very reasoned, very principled, nothing strange at all.
Are you allowed to make such an unpleasant post
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 02, 2020, 03:01:50 PM
I admire the  outlook Brietta has on life.
Always seems very reasoned, very principled, nothing strange at all.
Are you allowed to make such an unpleasant post


Good for you.  Why exactly are you telling me this  , do you think I'm interested?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 02, 2020, 03:09:08 PM
This will come as a shock to you but I think you should be told that in my opinion there are people out there who wish no-one ever either finds a live Madeleine McCann or what happened to her since her disappearance in 2007.

Then there are those that couldn't care less either way.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Erngath on January 02, 2020, 03:12:01 PM

Good for you.  Why exactly are you telling me this  , do you think I'm interested?

Are you not ?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Erngath on January 02, 2020, 03:13:10 PM
Then there are those that couldn't care less either way.

That wouldn't apply to anyone who posts or reads this forum.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 02, 2020, 03:13:47 PM
Are you not ?

No, but as you quoted my post, I felt I should reply, if only for etiquette's sake
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Erngath on January 02, 2020, 03:18:20 PM
No, but as you quoted my post, I felt I should reply, if only for etiquette's sake

You must have been interested enough to read my reply to your post.
For etiquette's sake we will have to keep replying unless you just decide to ignore this post.
Up to you ?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 02, 2020, 03:24:15 PM
You must have been interested enough to read my reply to your post.
For etiquette's sake we will have to keep replying unless you just decide to ignore this post.
Up to you ?

In that case I shan't bother   8)--))
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Lace on January 02, 2020, 04:07:47 PM
The McCanns probably see MM as their little girl just about to turn 4 yoa and yet in a few weeks time MM will be 17 yoa and a year off the age of majority.

I doubt that Holly,  the McCann's have been buying age appropriate presents for Madeleine,  Birthday and Christmas,  they would notice how the time was passing more than anyone else IMO
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 02, 2020, 04:16:42 PM
That bedroom must be full of stuff by now, unless they have disposed of the early  purchases as years go by.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 04:30:33 PM
Why would you think Kate and Gerry have failed to notice the passing of the years since their daughter disappeared in 2007?

I doubt they have failed to notice chronologically speaking but I still think if they are ever reunited they will find some difficulty reconciling the fact that MM is no longer the little girl they last saw in PDL. 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2020, 04:31:07 PM
Then there are those that couldn't care less either way.

The evidence suggests that you do not number amongst them nor does anyone else bothering to hit the post or send button on a McCann board.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 04:33:46 PM
I doubt that Holly,  the McCann's have been buying age appropriate presents for Madeleine,  Birthday and Christmas,  they would notice how the time was passing more than anyone else IMO

I think it might be easier said than done.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on January 02, 2020, 04:37:31 PM
I think it might be easier said than done.

But it's not your problem is it.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 04:39:36 PM
But it's not your problem is it.

Did I say it was?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2020, 04:42:25 PM
I doubt they have failed to notice chronologically speaking but I still think if they are ever reunited they will find some difficulty reconciling the fact that MM is no longer the little girl they last saw in PDL.

I doubt anyone with a modicum of intelligence would expect Madeleine to be the child she was in 2007 and have no idea why you raise the suggestion that her mum and dad might.  Just absolute nonsense in my opinion.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on January 02, 2020, 04:51:21 PM
Did I say it was?

So how can you think you know?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 02, 2020, 05:34:21 PM
This will come as a shock to you but I think you should be told that in my opinion there are people out there who wish no-one ever either finds a live Madeleine McCann or what happened to her since her disappearance in 2007.

I hope Madeleine is found, so she can have a proper burial.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 02, 2020, 05:44:49 PM
That bedroom must be full of stuff by now, unless they have disposed of the early  purchases as years go by.
To be fair, the twins can use whatever gets bought - just a year later.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 05:47:40 PM
So how can you think you know?

I said I think it might be easier said than done on the basis I went through a similar experience when I met my birth parents which is backed up by all the research. 

If MM is ever reunited with the McCanns although they are her biological parents they are now strangers too!
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 02, 2020, 05:48:24 PM
To be fair, the twins can use whatever gets bought - just a year later.

KM said they have been allowed to use things on the basis they put them back.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 02, 2020, 05:50:53 PM
KM said they have been allowed to use things on the basis they put them back.
But surely an iPad is an iPad is an iPad? Why buy three when you can just buy two - one a year after the first?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 02, 2020, 05:58:59 PM
That wouldn't apply to anyone who posts or reads this forum.

Whatever happened on 3rd May 2007 a little girl's life was ruined. That's the important fact to remember. How it was ruined and by whom is secondary imo; it may never be known.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Lace on January 02, 2020, 07:41:41 PM
I said I think it might be easier said than done on the basis I went through a similar experience when I met my birth parents which is backed up by all the research. 

If MM is ever reunited with the McCanns although they are her biological parents they are now strangers too!

That has nothing to do with the McCann's still thinking of Madeleine as a four year old.

Yes they will be strangers,  but the McCann's will know she is alive and where she is,  the not knowing must be terrible for them.

I watch 'Long Lost Families'  and even though some are babies when handed over for adoption,  some of the mothers by Birthday cards every year for their child,  and wonder if they had a good life, for them they are eaten up with guilt for giving their child up for adoption and the not knowing what happened to their child is a burden they carry for years.    When they are reunited they cry and say its as though they have always known each other, and  they will have a relationship with the mother,  child who they have been reunited with.

Hopefully,   if Madeleine has been taken by a couple who have brought her up,  Madeleine will still want a relationship with her biological parents.

Also,  it needs to be investigated how Madeleine was taken and by whom. 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Lace on January 02, 2020, 07:44:58 PM
That bedroom must be full of stuff by now, unless they have disposed of the early  purchases as years go by.

Maybe they buy small items,  jewellery for example.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 02, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
I said I think it might be easier said than done on the basis I went through a similar experience when I met my birth parents which is backed up by all the research. 

If MM is ever reunited with the McCanns although they are her biological parents they are now strangers too!

I don't think you need any personal experience it's common sense.  I Maddie has been brought up by a living family.. And it's a massively unlikely if.... Then she almost certainly would not want to leave her loving family... Her life... And her friends ..and I doubt the McCann's would expect her to.
I also think this situation might bring the McCann's some happiness but unfortunately it's not likely
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 02, 2020, 08:14:20 PM
That has nothing to do with the McCann's still thinking of Madeleine as a four year old.

Yes they will be strangers,  but the McCann's will know she is alive and where she is,  the not knowing must be terrible for them.

I watch 'Long Lost Families'  and even though some are babies when handed over for adoption,  some of the mothers by Birthday cards every year for their child,  and wonder if they had a good life, for them they are eaten up with guilt for giving their child up for adoption and the not knowing what happened to their child is a burden they carry for years.    When they are reunited they cry and say its as though they have always known each other, and  they will have a relationship with the mother,  child who they have been reunited with.

Hopefully,   if Madeleine has been taken by a couple who have brought her up,  Madeleine will still want a relationship with her biological parents.

Also,  it needs to be investigated how Madeleine was taken and by whom.

Long lost families seems to show the successful meetings. Not all those who search feel connected when they meet.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: sadie on January 04, 2020, 04:50:17 AM

Good for you.  Why exactly are you telling me this  , do you think I'm interested?

Readers might be very interested in what sort of people members are.

And, who knows, in time names might come out.

There will be some surprises then, IMO   8(>(( ?{)(**
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on January 04, 2020, 05:29:08 AM
Readers might be very interested in what sort of people members are.

And, who knows, in time names might come out.

There will be some surprises then, IMO   8(>(( ?{)(**

Name might come out?  You obviously aren't half so suspicious as I am.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 04, 2020, 07:06:46 AM
Readers might be very interested in what sort of people members are.

And, who knows, in time names might come out.

There will be some surprises then, IMO   8(>(( ?{)(**

I expect those on Stop the Myths were surprised to learn the disgusting truth about one of their members. Someone spent a lot of time deleting his foul posts in a vain attempt to pretend he hadn't been there.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Erngath on January 04, 2020, 07:38:31 AM
That has nothing to do with the McCann's still thinking of Madeleine as a four year old.

Yes they will be strangers,  but the McCann's will know she is alive and where she is,  the not knowing must be terrible for them.

I watch 'Long Lost Families'  and even though some are babies when handed over for adoption,  some of the mothers by Birthday cards every year for their child,  and wonder if they had a good life, for them they are eaten up with guilt for giving their child up for adoption and the not knowing what happened to their child is a burden they carry for years.    When they are reunited they cry and say its as though they have always known each other, and  they will have a relationship with the mother,  child who they have been reunited with.

Hopefully,   if Madeleine has been taken by a couple who have brought her up,  Madeleine will still want a relationship with her biological parents.

Also,  it needs to be investigated how Madeleine was taken and by whom.

I sometimes watch this programme and it is astonishing the family resemblances that there are when families are reunited.
That alone must be comforting for the member of the family who had been separated from their siblings/ parent.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 04, 2020, 07:46:42 AM
I sometimes watch this programme and it is astonishing the family resemblances that there are when families are reunited.
That alone must be comforting for the member of the family who had been separated from their siblings/ parent.

It's just one of the things you lack if you are separated from your birth family.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Lace on January 04, 2020, 10:13:43 AM
Long lost families seems to show the successful meetings. Not all those who search feel connected when they meet.

Maybe they do,  that is why I said 'Hopefully'  Madeleine will want a relationship with her biological parents.

Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 04, 2020, 10:18:18 AM
She will need to be 'liberated' first, so don't hold your breath.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 04, 2020, 10:22:12 AM
She will need to be 'liberated' first, so don't hold your breath.

Find her first,is the biggest hurdle.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 04, 2020, 12:13:38 PM
I don't think you need any personal experience it's common sense.  I Maddie has been brought up by a living family.. And it's a massively unlikely if.... Then she almost certainly would not want to leave her loving family... Her life... And her friends ..and I doubt the McCann's would expect her to.
I also think this situation might bring the McCann's some happiness but unfortunately it's not likely

But it would not be up to the McCanns.  Regardless of how MM has been cared for by any abductor(s) she would in effect be the victim of a very serious crime and her abductors the perp(s) of said crime.  If the authorities are not seen to apply the full force of the law then potentially it is a green light for child abduction. 

And if MM has been abused in some way by any abductor(s) it is still likely she would have formed some bond with her abductor(s) ie Stockholm Syndrome.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 04, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
But it would not be up to the McCanns.  Regardless of how MM has been cared for by any abductor(s) she would in effect be the victim of a very serious crime and her abductors the perp(s) of said crime.  If the authorities are not seen to apply the full force of the law then potentially it is a green light for child abduction. 

And if MM has been abused in some way by any abductor(s) it is still likely she would have formed some bond with her abductor(s) ie Stockholm Syndrome.

I never said it would be up to the mccanns... It would be up to social services and possibly ultimately the courts
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 04, 2020, 12:24:43 PM
I doubt anyone with a modicum of intelligence would expect Madeleine to be the child she was in 2007 and have no idea why you raise the suggestion that her mum and dad might.  Just absolute nonsense in my opinion.

Because all the research shows this to be the case. 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on January 04, 2020, 12:25:24 PM
But it would not be up to the McCanns.  Regardless of how MM has been cared for by any abductor(s) she would in effect be the victim of a very serious crime and her abductors the perp(s) of said crime.  If the authorities are not seen to apply the full force of the law then potentially it is a green light for child abduction. 

And if MM has been abused in some way by any abductor(s) it is still likely she would have formed some bond with her abductor(s) ie Stockholm Syndrome.

Mayhap the people with whom she is living didn't abduct her and might not even know who she is.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 04, 2020, 01:18:46 PM
Mayhap the people with whom she is living didn't abduct her and might not even know who she is.

Maybe but I think if the abductor(s) are raising as own then this was the motivation for the abduction ie emotional rather than financial or some other reason.  If third parties are involved then it gets more difficult to maintain confidentiality and someone not breaking rank. 

I believe the person who abducted MM is raising as own.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Eleanor on January 04, 2020, 03:58:29 PM
Maybe but I think if the abductor(s) are raising as own then this was the motivation for the abduction ie emotional rather than financial or some other reason.  If third parties are involved then it gets more difficult to maintain confidentiality and someone not breaking rank. 

I believe the person who abducted MM is raising as own.

It has to be Financial.  Who ever adopted Madeleine would have been prepare to pay.  Even official adoption costs a lot of money.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 04, 2020, 04:18:07 PM
That has nothing to do with the McCann's still thinking of Madeleine as a four year old.

Yes they will be strangers,  but the McCann's will know she is alive and where she is,  the not knowing must be terrible for them.

I watch 'Long Lost Families'  and even though some are babies when handed over for adoption,  some of the mothers by Birthday cards every year for their child,  and wonder if they had a good life, for them they are eaten up with guilt for giving their child up for adoption and the not knowing what happened to their child is a burden they carry for years.    When they are reunited they cry and say its as though they have always known each other, and  they will have a relationship with the mother,  child who they have been reunited with.

Hopefully,   if Madeleine has been taken by a couple who have brought her up,  Madeleine will still want a relationship with her biological parents.

Also,  it needs to be investigated how Madeleine was taken and by whom.

If Madeleine is still alive and is found I think so many traumas of the years will be resolved.  I don't think there is anyone who thinks she and her biological family won't have many, many hurdles still to overcome.

I think you make an important point in your last sentence, Lace.

A truly horrible serious crime has been committed and there are those who must know exactly what happened at the time and since.
I think it is crucial that is investigated to its logical conclusion.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 04, 2020, 04:24:41 PM
I don't think you need any personal experience it's common sense.  I Maddie has been brought up by a living family.. And it's a massively unlikely if.... Then she almost certainly would not want to leave her loving family... Her life... And her friends ..and I doubt the McCann's would expect her to.
I also think this situation might bring the McCann's some happiness but unfortunately it's not likely

Being realistic about it all I think that may very well be the case.  But it doesn't stop hope for the best possible outcome for Madeleine and her family who have been deprived of her physical presence for so many years.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 04, 2020, 04:37:18 PM
Maybe but I think if the abductor(s) are raising as own then this was the motivation for the abduction ie emotional rather than financial or some other reason.  If third parties are involved then it gets more difficult to maintain confidentiality and someone not breaking rank. 

I believe the person who abducted MM is raising as own.

It is well documented that some who are desperate to have children will resort to any possible means to have one.

In some cases there would be no question of 'breaking the ranks' for the simple reason there would be none to break.  No evidence and no paper trail ... just a desperate individual who doesn't know or care about anything other than getting a child.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Lace on January 04, 2020, 06:03:59 PM
Maybe but I think if the abductor(s) are raising as own then this was the motivation for the abduction ie emotional rather than financial or some other reason.  If third parties are involved then it gets more difficult to maintain confidentiality and someone not breaking rank. 

I believe the person who abducted MM is raising as own.

Could be Holly.   

There was a couple desperate for a child,   he told his brother he would take a child if he had to.   He came into a lot of money.   Don't know what happened to him and his wife,  if they were investigated or not.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 04, 2020, 09:49:48 PM
It has to be Financial.  Who ever adopted Madeleine would have been prepare to pay.  Even official adoption costs a lot of money.

Does it?  You don't think it's possible the person who abducted her is also raising her? 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 04, 2020, 10:03:54 PM
Long lost families seems to show the successful meetings. Not all those who search feel connected when they meet.

I would love to believe that Maddie is with a loving family and has adjusted to her new life. However, A reality is;she wasn't abducted for her blood,her name, for a childless couple, if she was abducted it would have been for nefarious behaviors. And as Holly has mentioned, if she is being held and is found and released AND remembers what happened I doubt very much she would fall into her parents arms and thank them. Just my opinion.

News just in: My friend has commented on this subject and believes MBM left the flat -got knocked  down and the person aka smithman was trying to get her to the local firstaid/hospital? but she died, and they had to get rid of the body.

Hmm I don't know about that theory.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 04, 2020, 10:06:42 PM
I would love to believe that Maddie is with a loving family and has adjusted to her new life. However, A reality is;she wasn't abducted for her blood,her name, for a childless couple, if she was abducted it would have been for nefarious behaviors. And as Holly has mentioned, if she is being held and is found and released AND remembers what happened I doubt very much she would fall into her parents arms and thank them. Just my opinion.

News just in: My friend has commented on this subject and believes MBM left the flat -got knocked  down and the person aka smithman was trying to get her to the local firstaid/hospital? but she died, and they had to get rid of the body.

Hmm I don't know about that theory.

Why carry her, why not drive her?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 04, 2020, 10:09:54 PM
Why carry her, why not drive her?

I do not know, It isn't my theory. 8)><(
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 04, 2020, 10:14:47 PM
I do not know, It isn't my theory. 8)><(
Whooshing curtains could mean she clambered out of the window even though the patio door was unlocked.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Admin on January 05, 2020, 07:52:56 PM
I would love to believe that Maddie is with a loving family and has adjusted to her new life. However, A reality is;she wasn't abducted for her blood,her name, for a childless couple, if she was abducted it would have been for nefarious behaviors. And as Holly has mentioned, if she is being held and is found and released AND remembers what happened I doubt very much she would fall into her parents arms and thank them. Just my opinion.

News just in: My friend has commented on this subject and believes MBM left the flat -got knocked  down and the person aka smithman was trying to get her to the local firstaid/hospital? but she died, and they had to get rid of the body.

Hmm I don't know about that theory.

Your friends belief would ceratinly fit with much of what we know happened the night Madeleine disappeared.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 05, 2020, 08:57:17 PM
I would love to believe that Maddie is with a loving family and has adjusted to her new life. However, A reality is;she wasn't abducted for her blood,her name, for a childless couple, if she was abducted it would have been for nefarious behaviors. And as Holly has mentioned, if she is being held and is found and released AND remembers what happened I doubt very much she would fall into her parents arms and thank them. Just my opinion.

News just in: My friend has commented on this subject and believes MBM left the flat -got knocked  down and the person aka smithman was trying to get her to the local firstaid/hospital? but she died, and they had to get rid of the body.

Hmm I don't know about that theory.

But if Smithman was concerned enough to attempt to seek first aid why would he panic if MM died in the intervening period to the extent he decided he had to dispose of the body?

And if MM woke and wandered how come the window/shutter were open?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 05, 2020, 08:59:10 PM
But if Smithman was concerned enough to attempt to seek first aid why would he panic if MM died in the intervening period to the extent he decided he had to dispose of the body?

And if MM woke and wandered how come the window/shutter were open?
Depends who Smithman is.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 05, 2020, 09:00:41 PM
Depends who Smithman is.

sceptics think its Gerry
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 05, 2020, 09:06:06 PM
sceptics think its Gerry
Not all of them. Checkmate.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 05, 2020, 09:08:07 PM
Not all of them. Checkmate.

it was lingual buccal
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 05, 2020, 09:12:05 PM
it was lingual buccal

Too serious for that.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 05, 2020, 09:28:38 PM
Too serious for that.

I agree it's not strictly a core belief... But what's interesting is it's the first one to be objected to which suggests the others are...
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Not all of them. Checkmate.

No allowance for subtlety is there? It's all black or white for some. What about the don't knows?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 05, 2020, 09:48:36 PM
No allowance for subtlety is there? It's all black or white for some. What about the don't knows?

Don't knows are sceptics
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 05, 2020, 09:50:25 PM
No allowance for subtlety is there? It's all black or white for some. What about the don't knows?

Isn't that everybody ?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 05, 2020, 10:53:05 PM
Isn't that everybody ?

It definitely applies to me, but some people claim to know more about what I think than I do. Do they think they're going to convince me, I wonder?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 05, 2020, 10:57:39 PM
It definitely applies to me, but some people claim to know more about what I think than I do. Do they think they're going to convince me, I wonder?
You know Madeleine wasn’t abducted though don’t you, because you informed us that it was virtually impossible, I seem to remember...
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 05, 2020, 10:59:40 PM
It definitely applies to me, but some people claim to know more about what I think than I do. Do they think they're going to convince me, I wonder?

The mccanns claim they do not know what happened to Maddie... I believe they are telling the truth.... Anyone who doubts them is a sceptic by definition..
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 05, 2020, 11:43:16 PM
You know Madeleine wasn’t abducted though don’t you, because you informed us that it was virtually impossible, I seem to remember...

I haven't said that Madeleine wasn't abducted. Virtually impossible means highly unlikely, but not impossible.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 05, 2020, 11:48:34 PM
I haven't said that Madeleine wasn't abducted. Virtually impossible means highly unlikely, but not impossible.
LOL.

“The connotation of pretty much any adverb applied to "impossible" is that there is a known circumstance or set of events that would produce the "impossibility", but that those circumstances are so improbable as to not be worth consideration. "Virtual" itself is defined as "very close to being something without actually being it", and so any term you can think of with a similar definition would be synonymous.”
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 05, 2020, 11:55:43 PM
LOL.

“The connotation of pretty much any adverb applied to "impossible" is that there is a known circumstance or set of events that would produce the "impossibility", but that those circumstances are so improbable as to not be worth consideration. "Virtual" itself is defined as "very close to being something without actually being it", and so any term you can think of with a similar definition would be synonymous.”

I still haven't said it was impossible. That means I don't believe it was impossible, so it can't be ruled out. Neither can woke and wandered or parental involvement.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 12:33:29 AM
I still haven't said it was impossible. That means I don't believe it was impossible, so it can't be ruled out. Neither can woke and wandered or parental involvement.

I think you are wrong about parental involvement in Madeleine's case.

Both the Judicial Police and Scotland Yard have checked that one out ...
Snip
McCann not suspected in new daughter disappearance investigation
The prosecution has ordered the reopening of the investigation into the disappearance of the English girl. RTP knows that Maddie McCann's parents are not considered suspects in the case's new line of investigation. The ruling is a consequence of the Judiciary Police's proposal and the presentation of new evidence justifying further investigation.

In a statement, the prosecutor added that the Criminal Investigation Judge was requested to postpone access to the case, for an indispensable period for the completion of the investigation.
https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/mundo/mccann-nao-sao-suspeitos-na-nova-investigacao-sobre-desaparecimento-da-filha_v690593


The thing is ... once all the evidence has been checked out and there is nothing to connect those physically and emotionally closest to the victim of a crime ... investigators progress to following the next piece of pertinent evidence and so on and so on until it peters out or until leads to a breakthrough.

Investigations are not held open for the purpose of going back and going back and going back and going back over the same ground. 

The name of the game is progression and in my opinion that is precisely what the current investigators have been and are doing.

No I don't know what that is but I don't really care about that. 
What I do know is that they are not jammed in the time warp of 2007 investigating the same people in a loop ad nauseam, nor do I think that the woke and wandered theory holds much sway since there is evidence that both investigations centred on people with a connection to Ocean Club workers or their associates.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 06, 2020, 07:20:22 AM
I still haven't said it was impossible. That means I don't believe it was impossible, so it can't be ruled out. Neither can woke and wandered or parental involvement.
You don’t need to explain, it’s pretty obvious what your views are.   Abduction virtually impossible, woke and wandered possible, parental involvement highly likely.  I fully expect you to take issue with this, though god knows why you would.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 08:08:10 AM
You don’t need to explain, it’s pretty obvious what your views are.   Abduction virtually impossible, woke and wandered possible, parental involvement highly likely.  I fully expect you to take issue with this, though god knows why you would.

I can't work out why you need to know what other people think. I don't know or care what others think. In my opinion there's not enough evidence to be sure what happened on 3rd May 2007. That was the view of both Pedro do Carmo and A C Rowley in 2017, and nothing has been said since.

So as of 2017 the PJ weren't convinced that Madeleine had been abducted, but Rowley was. Hardly surprising really as the crime was named in Operation Grange's remit. Judging by the evidence of Simon Foy and Andy Redwood that seems to have been based on the timeline. Op Grange appear to have been convinced that the timeline as reported was correct.

In my opinion the timeline is the most important evidence in the case, and I agree with Rebelo; it was never confirmed. No-one really knows who was there, who left, how long they were away or exactly what time the alarm was raised. The evidence isn't conclusive.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 06, 2020, 08:18:58 AM
I can't work out why you need to know what other people think. I don't know or care what others think. In my opinion there's not enough evidence to be sure what happened on 3rd May 2007. That was the view of both Pedro do Carmo and A C Rowley in 2017, and nothing has been said since.

So as of 2017 the PJ weren't convinced that Madeleine had been abducted, but Rowley was. Hardly surprising really as the crime was named in Operation Grange's remit. Judging by the evidence of Simon Foy and Andy Redwood that seems to have been based on the timeline. Op Grange appear to have been convinced that the timeline as reported was correct.

In my opinion the timeline is the most important evidence in the case, and I agree with Rebelo; it was never confirmed. No-one really knows who was there, who left, how long they were away or exactly what time the alarm was raised. The evidence isn't conclusive.
I don’t NEED to know but when communicating with others I don’t obfuscste, speak in riddles or pretend not to have opinions, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable for me to expect that those I communicate with do me the same courtesy.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 08:32:28 AM
I don’t NEED to know but when communicating with others I don’t obfuscste, speak in riddles or pretend not to have opinions, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable for those I communicate with to do me the same courtesy.

Some people have firm opinions and some don't. I don't and have made that clear time and again. Why people can't accept that and why they insist that I do have firm opinions is a mystery to me.

I don't obfuscate, speak in riddles or pretend at all, and I find it most discourteous to be accused of doing so.

Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 08:40:07 AM
Some people have firm opinions and some don't. I don't and have made that clear time and again. Why people can't accept that and why they insist that I do have firm opinions is a mystery to me.

I don't obfuscate, speak in riddles or pretend at all, and I find it most discourteous to be accused of doing so.

You di have firm opinions... Your opinion is the mccanns have not been ruled out despite all the evidence they have been
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 09:03:27 AM
New year, same old.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 09:11:25 AM
New year, same old.

I agree.. Some posters are stuck in 2007...but the investigation has moved on
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 09:22:02 AM
I agree.. Some posters are stuck in 2007...but the investigation has moved on


2017 is where its at,the PJ don't accept the abduction as the only option,SY on the other hand?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 09:34:05 AM

2017 is where its at,the PJ don't accept the abduction as the only option,SY on the other hand?

But they have said parents not suspects and no evidence against them...
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 09:35:16 AM
But they have said parents not suspects and no evidence against them...

I don't recall mentioning that,like I say same old.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 09:40:24 AM
You di have firm opinions... Your opinion is the mccanns have not been ruled out despite all the evidence they have been

I accept that Op Grange are not investigating the McCanns. I don't accept that they have sufficient evidence to support that decision. I certainly don't accept Rowley's claim that the PJ were in possession of that evidence in 2007.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 09:45:27 AM

2017 is where its at,the PJ don't accept the abduction as the only option,SY on the other hand?

                2017 ????       I thought the bells rang in 2020

Pedro do Carmo: "Maddie's parents are not suspects. Period."
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 09:45:50 AM
I accept that Op Grange are not investigating the McCanns. I don't accept that they have sufficient evidence to support that decision. I certainly don't accept Rowley's claim that the PJ were in possession of that evidence in 2007.

You have no idea what evidence SY have... Your opinion doesn't count for much in the real world.
Do Carmo also clearly stated.. No evidence... No suspects Re the mccanns...
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 09:58:21 AM
You have no idea what evidence SY have... Your opinion doesn't count for much in the real world.
Do Carmo also clearly stated.. No evidence... No suspects Re the mccanns...

Rowley never claimed to have evidence which ruled the parents out. He claimed the first investigation dealt with the question of their involvement. It didn't.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 10:02:02 AM
Rowley never claimed to have evidence which ruled the parents out. He claimed the first investigation dealt with the question of their involvement. It didn't.

He said they had looked at all of that... Meaning. Imo.. They had looked, at the evidence.  I would also think they had further interviewed the mccanns.  The absence of evidence IS in some instances evidence of innocence... That's not opinion.

The police often say... No evidence if foul play..on that basis they accept there is no foul play.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 10:11:03 AM
                2017 ????       I thought the bells rang in 2020

Pedro do Carmo: "Maddie's parents are not suspects. Period."

I'm sure you'll give us the update for 2020 then,2017 was the last we heard of what direction the investigation's were at.Pedro Do Carmo,we don't know what happened and have to be prepared for different scenario's.Rowley ,however she left the apartment she was abducted,one is of a closed mind ,never the twain shall meet,imo and all that jazz.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 10:14:21 AM
He said they had looked at all of that... Meaning. Imo.. They had looked, at the evidence.  I would also think they had further interviewed the mccanns.  The absence of evidence IS in some instances evidence of innocence... That's not opinion.

The police often say... No evidence if foul play..on that basis they accept there is no foul play.

I know what you believe. I don't share your faith in the Metropolitan Police.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 10:16:39 AM
I'm sure you'll give us the update for 2020 then,2017 was the last we heard of what direction the investigation's were at.Pedro Do Carmo,we don't know what happened and have to be prepared for different scenario's.Rowley ,however she left the apartment she was abducted,one is of a closed mind ,never the twain shall meet,imo and all that jazz.

Yes the update is there doesn't seem to have been any investigation of the mccanns since 2017 to change the position
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 10:20:50 AM
He said they had looked at all of that... Meaning. Imo.. They had looked, at the evidence.  I would also think they had further interviewed the mccanns.  The absence of evidence IS in some instances evidence of innocence... That's not opinion.

The police often say... No evidence if foul play..on that basis they accept there is no foul play.

You need to listen very carefully to what Rowley said,before Brunt could even finish the question Rowley said no to Brunt,we have not interviewed the parents.

Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 10:23:07 AM
Yes the update is there doesn't seem to have been any investigation of the mccanns since 2017 to change the position

Qualifying word being "seem",also its seems as if no one is in the frame,save for the lead investigator claims(news outlets).
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 10:30:34 AM
You need to listen very carefully to what Rowley said,before Brunt could even finish the question Rowley said no to Brunt,we have not interviewed the parents.

I think you need to listen to it again....shall we both do that

I can look but do you have, a link to the transcript
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 06, 2020, 10:47:54 AM
I know what you believe. I don't share your faith in the Metropolitan Police.

I would agree. Finding Smithman was and still is the key to this case imo.  Amaral knew it to be the case at the time he was coordinator and we all know what happened to him.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 11:08:24 AM
I think you need to listen to it again....shall we both do that

I can look but do you have, a link to the transcript

Listen and I mean listen,Brunt:Just to be clear you didn't interview the McCann's.17:25 in.

Before Brunt finished the question Rowley answered no.

Also listen in about stranger abduction at 11:20,he talks of a lot unknown.

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/interview-with-assistant-commissioner-mark-rowley-who-news-footage/673183860
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 11:28:28 AM
I'm sure you'll give us the update for 2020 then,2017 was the last we heard of what direction the investigation's were at.Pedro Do Carmo,we don't know what happened and have to be prepared for different scenario's.Rowley ,however she left the apartment she was abducted,one is of a closed mind ,never the twain shall meet,imo and all that jazz.

What changes have taken place in your life and the lives of people around you since 2017 let alone 2007?

Nothing stays static

As long as Madeleine's case remains open and active it can be presumed there is still work being done.  I believe when a police investigation runs out of options it gets shelved although kept under review;  I don't think Madeleine's case is at that stage yet. 
One thing I am sure of is that investigators have far more information available to them and a clearer picture than in 2007.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 11:37:59 AM
What changes have taken place in your life and the lives of people around you since 2017 let alone 2007?

Nothing stays static

As long as Madeleine's case remains open and active it can be presumed there is still work being done.  I believe when a police investigation runs out of options it gets shelved although kept under review;  I don't think Madeleine's case is at that stage yet. 
One thing I am sure of is that investigators have far more information available to them and a clearer picture than in 2007.

Nobody knows what Op Grange is doing now because they don't say. All four of them are quiet. It's unlikely in my opinion that they have added to whatever A C Rowley knew in 2017, and he clearly stated that they had relied on the first PJ investigation to have 'dealt with' the question of parental involvement.

That means that Op Grange began it's investigation at a certain point. If they chose the wrong point to begin then they may be going in completely the wrong direction. Indeed, their lack of a conclusion suggests that may well be the case.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 11:44:13 AM
Nobody knows what Op Grange is doing now because they don't say. All four of them are quiet. It's unlikely in my opinion that they have added to whatever A C Rowley knew in 2017, and he clearly stated that they had relied on the first PJ investigation to have 'dealt with' the question of parental involvement.

That means that Op Grange began it's investigation at a certain point. If they chose the wrong point to begin then they may be going in completely the wrong direction. Indeed, their lack of a conclusion suggests that may well be the case.

Which if the first investigation was as deeply flawed as some would have us believe then by default OG is as well.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 11:53:01 AM
Listen and I mean listen,Brunt:Just to be clear you didn't interview the McCann's.17:25 in.

Before Brunt finished the question Rowley answered no.

Also listen in about stranger abduction at 11:20,he talks of a lot unknown.

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/interview-with-assistant-commissioner-mark-rowley-who-news-footage/673183860

the correct words are not interviewed as suspects...and not interviewed under caution......not that they were not interviewed.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 11:55:04 AM
I would agree. Finding Smithman was and still is the key to this case imo.  Amaral knew it to be the case at the time he was coordinator and we all know what happened to him.

smithman hasnt been found  and i think that may be because his sighting ..it seems...has not been promoted in portugal
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 06, 2020, 11:58:18 AM

As if they'd say anything other than 'no comment'.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 12:00:47 PM
the correct words are not interviewed as suspects...and not interviewed under caution......not that they were not interviewed.

Thank you that reply just won me a years supply of Bertie Basetts,Listen and really listen.Brunt:Just to be clear you didn't interview the McCanns,before he could continue with the question Rowley answered no.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 12:03:32 PM
Thank you that reply just won me a years supply of Bertie Basetts,Listen and really listen.Brunt:Just to be clear you didn't interview the McCanns,before he could continue with the question Rowley answered no.

im going by the transcript
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 12:14:43 PM
As if they'd say anything other than 'no comment'.

Nope I think Gerry asked to see the FSS report which was being waved under his nose as he answered all questions put to him.  His request wasn't complied with which comes as no surprise when it was revealed that this cornerstone of evidence apparently used to make him and Kate arguidos had been totally misrepresented to him at the arguido interrogation and to the world.

Snip
«Gonçalo Amaral lied to me»
In July 2008, however, the journalist has access to the lawsuit, which until then was a secret of justice. “When I look at the preliminary result, which Gonçalo Amaral told me about, which led him to constitute the McCanns as defendants, I see that the last paragraph said that although there were 17 alleles out of 20, the sample was so insignificant and small that there were several people in the lab with the same genetic identification. So this evidence could not be considered relevant, ”he explains. Sandra Felgueiras feels "deeply mistaken". This paragraph was decisive to shake everything that had been done before. "At no time did Gonçalo Amaral tell me that the sample was so small and criminally irrelevant," he says.    Sandra Felgueiras
https://www.impala.pt/noticias/portugal-e-o-mundo/sandra-felgueiras-maddie-mccann/
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 12:25:09 PM
im going by the transcript

In which Martin Brunt asks ...
"One of the biggest criticisms of the Portuguese investigation, which they acknowledge as well, is that they did not interrogate the parents from the start, if only to eliminate them.
When you started your investigation, you appear to have done the same. Did you formally interview the McCann’s under caution, ever consider them as suspects?"
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 12:26:52 PM
Thank you that reply just won me a years supply of Bertie Basetts,Listen and really listen.Brunt:Just to be clear you didn't interview the McCanns,before he could continue with the question Rowley answered no.

. Rowley has already answerred the question...not interviwed under caution or as suspect...Rowley is asked the same question again and cuts in before its finished to confirm his initial answer..

the question referred to the mccanns being interviewed as postential suspects...under caution
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 06, 2020, 12:28:55 PM
I wonder why Brunt even felt compelled to ask.

Maybe he suspects something?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 12:30:25 PM
In which Martin Brunt asks ...
"One of the biggest criticisms of the Portuguese investigation, which they acknowledge as well, is that they did not interrogate the parents from the start, if only to eliminate them.
When you started your investigation, you appear to have done the same. Did you formally interview the McCann’s under caution, ever consider them as suspects?"

good point... Rowley has already answerred the question...not interviwed under caution or as suspect...Rowley is asked the same question again and cuts in before its finished to confirm his initial answer
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 12:43:04 PM
good point... rowley has alraedy answerred the question...not interviwed under caution or as suspect...Rowley is asked the same question again and cuts in before its finished to confirm his initial answer

Exactly my opinion.

I doubt very much that having moved mountains to reach the stages of review and all that came with that, the police were not as anxious to have certain points clarified as Kate and Gerry were to clarify them.

I think it is preposterous to imagine the McCanns were not involved in giving at least one informal interview and I can see what the reaction in forumland to that would have been had it been known.

Hundreds of interviews occurred at this time ... the police gave out no personal details on any of them.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 06, 2020, 12:44:06 PM
smithman hasnt been found  and i think that may be because his sighting ..it seems...has not been promoted in portugal

Agreed.  Both the PJ and SY have been derelict in their duty to find this man.  IMO the mere fact that he failed to come forward despite the years of publicity surrounding the Smiths sighting is a sure indicator that he is guilty.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 01:23:46 PM
Agreed.  Both the PJ and SY have been derelict in their duty to find this man.  IMO the mere fact that he failed to come forward despite the years of publicity surrounding the Smiths sighting is a sure indicator that he is guilty.

Thinking about it sensibly if he'd been a father carrying his daughter he could have come forward, so that's unlikely to be who he was. If he was carrying Madeleine McCann she wasn't wearing what her parents said she was wearing.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 01:26:25 PM
Thinking about it sensibly if he'd been a father carrying his daughter he could have come forward, so that's unlikely to be who he was. If he was carrying Madeleine McCann she wasn't wearing what her parents said she was wearing.

If the sighting hasnt been promoted in portugal why should he come forward
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 01:33:14 PM
Thinking about it sensibly if he'd been a father carrying his daughter he could have come forward, so that's unlikely to be who he was. If he was carrying Madeleine McCann she wasn't wearing what her parents said she was wearing.

       
Why do you think that might be?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 01:59:37 PM
If the sighting hasnt been promoted in portugal why should he come forward

I wonder if it occured to the Met's finest that asking people in the UK, Germany, Ireland (?) and the Netherlands if they could identify this man just wasn't enough? After all, he was seen in Portugal, not in those countries.

Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 02:04:42 PM
I wonder if it occured to the Met's finest that asking people in the UK, Germany, Ireland (?) and the Netherlands if they could identify this man just wasn't enough? After all, he was seen in Portugal, not in those countries.

i would have thought SY would have requested it...the PJ dont seem keen on tv appeals....I have seen nothing to suggest it was promoted...ive asked sil several times with no response
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 02:09:14 PM
i would have thought SY would have requested it...the PJ dont seem keen on tv appeals....I have seen nothing to suggest it was promoted...ive asked sil several times with no response

All they had to do was speak with the Portuguese media.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 02:13:22 PM
All they had to do was speak with the Portuguese media.

It's a Portuguese investigation... They have no right to do that in Portugal
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 03:49:34 PM
It's a Portuguese investigation... They have no right to do that in Portugal

What right have they to interview anyone outwith any ILOR from Portugal,the defence will have a field if it were to come to trial.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 03:52:21 PM
What right have they to interview anyone outwith any ILOR from Portugal,the defence will have a field if it were to come to trial.

Precisely
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 03:54:07 PM
im going by the transcript

Which was an edit of the interview.The video I linked to was a press association release what was the transcript and who edited it.
The last piece where Rowley says it wont go on for as long as it is isn't in any transcript.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 03:54:23 PM
What right have they to interview anyone outwith any ILOR from Portugal,the defence will have a field if it were to come to trial.

You are losing me a bit there.  That is precisely what Davel posted when he said this is a Portuguese investigation is it not?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 03:57:13 PM
Precisely

What right have OG to interview the McCann's none,Rowley confirmed they hadn't been in the interview.Arguing they have is arguing against your own stance.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 04:08:05 PM
What right have OG to interview the McCann's none,Rowley confirmed they hadn't been in the interview.Arguing they have is arguing against your own stance.

I for one would be incredulous if the police hadn't gone in the greatest possible detail into what the McCanns in particular and their friends could tell them.

No-one outwith the loop of the investigation knows who was interviewed and when.  Similarly, the Judicial Police can ask to speak to whoever and whenever within their jurisdiction.

I imagine both police forces carrying out the investigation do speak to each other pertaining to the case.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
What right have OG to interview the McCann's none,Rowley confirmed they hadn't been in the interview.Arguing they have is arguing against your own stance.

No I haven't... They've every right to interview the McCann's in the uk

UK police interviewed the Gaspars... Did they have an ILOR to do that... They didn't need one obviously
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 04:22:09 PM
What right have OG to interview the McCann's none,Rowley confirmed they hadn't been in the interview.Arguing they have is arguing against your own stance.

Rowley confirmed the McCann's had not been interviewed under caution... Nothing more
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 06, 2020, 05:33:32 PM
Some people have firm opinions and some don't. I don't and have made that clear time and again. Why people can't accept that and why they insist that I do have firm opinions is a mystery to me.

I don't obfuscate, speak in riddles or pretend at all, and I find it most discourteous to be accused of doing so.
You believe firmly that the McCanns were up to something dodgy, come on!!
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 06, 2020, 06:09:34 PM
Rowley confirmed the McCann's had not been interviewed under caution... Nothing more

Rowley confirmed they had not been interviewed.He answered no to that before the question was completed.

Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 06:13:32 PM
Rowley confirmed they had not been interviewed.He answered no to that before the question was completed.

as has been pointed out...if you listen to it....Rowley is asked the question initially and gives quite  along answer...hes then asked to clarify his answer amd he confirms no....He is responding to the question ...have the mccanns been interviewed under caution...as suspects...
you are putting your own spin on it. You may accuse me of the same....i would say im right and you are wrong
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 06, 2020, 08:18:06 PM
as has been pointed out...if you listen to it....Rowley is asked the question initially and gives quite  along answer...hes then asked to clarify his answer amd he confirms no....He is responding to the question ...have the mccanns been interviewed under caution...as suspects...
you are putting your own spin on it. You may accuse me of the same....i would say im right and you are wrong

So they have been interviewed as witnesses?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 06, 2020, 08:20:04 PM
No I haven't... They've every right to interview the McCann's in the uk

UK police interviewed the Gaspars... Did they have an ILOR to do that... They didn't need one obviously

Wrong. The UK police did not question the Gaspars in conneciton with the disappearance of Madeliene.
The Gaspars presented themselves as witnesses to behavior they thought may be significant. Which Amaral was not privvy to;when in post.


The reply from Barrier is clear. The McCanns have not been interviewed.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 06, 2020, 08:20:23 PM
I for one would be incredulous if the police hadn't gone in the greatest possible detail into what the McCanns in particular and their friends could tell them.

No-one outwith the loop of the investigation knows who was interviewed and when.  Similarly, the Judicial Police can ask to speak to whoever and whenever within their jurisdiction.

I imagine both police forces carrying out the investigation do speak to each other pertaining to the case.

Given the many years that have gone by, I doubt there was any point.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 06, 2020, 08:22:13 PM
Wrong. The UK police did not question the Gaspars in conneciton with the disappearance of Madeliene.
The Gaspars presented themselves as witnesses to behavior they thought may be significant. Which Amaral was not privvy to;when in post.


The reply from Barrier is clear. The McCanns have not been interviewed.

I doubt that very much given that social services were brought in.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: jassi on January 06, 2020, 08:35:42 PM
I doubt that very much given that social services were brought in.

Would that not  be Leicester Police pre OG ?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Wrong. The UK police did not question the Gaspars in conneciton with the disappearance of Madeliene.
The Gaspars presented themselves as witnesses to behavior they thought may be significant. Which Amaral was not privvy to;when in post.


The reply from Barrier is clear. The McCanns have not been interviewed.

Im not interested in the report by barrier...Im interested in the report by Rowley. Barrier has misunderstood it from what i can see.

just as Im not interested in your opinion. the Uk police can interview anyone they like on UK soil

Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 08:40:02 PM
So they have been interviewed as witnesses?

absolutely
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 08:42:26 PM
This is potentially  a murder investigtion...the UK police would therefore have jurisdiction to interview anyone they wished in the UK and quite possibly jurisdiction to prosecute in the UK....
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 06, 2020, 08:49:15 PM
I doubt that very much given that social services were brought in.

I think the issue is; the UK (SY/OG) police did not interview the McCanns as if the 'abduction' took place in the UK.

After a few years-They read the PJ report about the McCanns interviews with the PJ.

The  Leicester police interviewed as requested by the PJ.- they did not question as suspects, as far as I am aware. it was all very friendly like. err umm er am you know  erm well you know  as you know err and it was  oh  err  well

 
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 08:52:04 PM
This is potentially  a murder investigtion...the UK police would therefore have jurisdiction to interview anyone they wished in the UK and quite possibly jurisdiction to prosecute in the UK....

Are Op Grange searching for a murderer rather than searching for/carrying out surveillance on a live girl? Do you have any evidence or is that merely idle speculation?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 08:53:52 PM
Are Op Grange searching for a murderer rather than searching for/carrying out surveillance on a live girl? Do you have any evidence or is that merely idle speculation?
i have evidence grange think maddie may be dead....which would make this  a possible murder enquiry....do you need a cite or can you work it out yourself
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 06, 2020, 08:56:29 PM
Are Op Grange searching for a murderer rather than searching for/carrying out surveillance on a live girl? Do you have any evidence or is that merely idle speculation?

Op are very very busy@ looking for murderers and live child- abducted by paedo gang/loving family/gypsies  and it is a GLOBAL search.  the air miles must be totting up now.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 08:57:50 PM
I think the issue is; the UK (SY/OG) police did not interview the McCanns as if the 'abduction' took place in the UK.

After a few years-They read the PJ report about the McCanns interviews with the PJ.

The  Leicester police interviewed as requested by the PJ.- they did not question as suspects, as far as I am aware. it was all very friendly like. err umm er am you know  erm well you know  as you know err and it was  oh  err  well

The rogatory interviews were very friendly, weren't they? It seems little off-the-record rehearsals chats took place too in some cases before the actual interviews were recorded.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 09:20:56 PM
The rogatory interviews were very friendly, weren't they? It seems little off-the-record rehearsals chats took place too in some cases before the actual interviews were recorded.

I think that post illustrates an absolute and total ignorance of interview technique.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 09:23:41 PM
The rogatory interviews were very friendly, weren't they? It seems little off-the-record rehearsals chats took place too in some cases before the actual interviews were recorded.

It shows how little you know about the justice system...its quite normal for police to discuss the content of a witness statement before making the actual statement. Remeber the interviews were  witnesses...not suspects
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 06, 2020, 09:25:07 PM
The rogatory interviews were very friendly, weren't they? It seems little off-the-record rehearsals chats took place too in some cases before the actual interviews were recorded.
wow, and you accuse me of making insinuations!
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 09:31:22 PM
I think that post illustrates an absolute and total ignorance of interview technique.

Oh, do explain! How do pre-interview chats form part of this technique?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2020, 09:33:14 PM
Oh, do explain! How do pre-interview chats form part of this technique?
I've explained... Do you have any knowledge of police taking witness statements... Obviously not
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 10:38:16 PM
It shows how little you know about the justice system...its quite normal for police to discuss the content of a witness statement before making the actual statement. Remeber the interviews were  witnesses...not suspects

Is it? You'll have a cite for that, obviously.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 10:48:02 PM
Is it? You'll have a cite for that, obviously.
Working with victims and witnesses
The success of any investigation depends largely on the accuracy and detail of the material obtained from witnesses. Investigators, whether tasked with a volume crime or major investigation, must recognise the individual needs and concerns of witnesses and treat them with dignity and respect. This can have a significant impact on how witnesses cooperate with the investigation and any subsequent prosecution.

Professionalism and integrity
Interviewing is complex. It requires learning and practice to ensure that high standards are achieved and maintained.

An interview may not be used solely for obtaining information about an investigation. It may also be used to provide witnesses and victims with important information, for example, about court proceedings, protection of identity, special measures, disclosure, intermediaries and witness protection.

In any interview it is essential that the investigator acts with professionalism and integrity. The following will support this.

Establishing a professional relationship
People are more likely to give accurate information if they trust the professionalism of the interviewer. The interviewee should be treated fairly and in accordance with legislative guidelines. Interviewers must not allow their personal opinions or beliefs to affect the way in which they deal with witnesses, victims or suspects.

The importance of being methodical
Being methodical helps both the interviewer and interviewee. Planning, preparation and ensuring that the interview plan is followed, and that answers are linked are all part of being methodical. The PEACE interview model also helps.

Personal style
Style matters because it affects the motivation of the interviewee to be accurate and relevant in their replies. Establishing a rapport means being genuinely open, interested and approachable, as well as being interested in the interviewee’s feelings or welfare.
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/victims-and-witnesses/
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2020, 11:35:40 PM
Working with victims and witnesses
The success of any investigation depends largely on the accuracy and detail of the material obtained from witnesses. Investigators, whether tasked with a volume crime or major investigation, must recognise the individual needs and concerns of witnesses and treat them with dignity and respect. This can have a significant impact on how witnesses cooperate with the investigation and any subsequent prosecution.

Professionalism and integrity
Interviewing is complex. It requires learning and practice to ensure that high standards are achieved and maintained.

An interview may not be used solely for obtaining information about an investigation. It may also be used to provide witnesses and victims with important information, for example, about court proceedings, protection of identity, special measures, disclosure, intermediaries and witness protection.

In any interview it is essential that the investigator acts with professionalism and integrity. The following will support this.

Establishing a professional relationship
People are more likely to give accurate information if they trust the professionalism of the interviewer. The interviewee should be treated fairly and in accordance with legislative guidelines. Interviewers must not allow their personal opinions or beliefs to affect the way in which they deal with witnesses, victims or suspects.

The importance of being methodical
Being methodical helps both the interviewer and interviewee. Planning, preparation and ensuring that the interview plan is followed, and that answers are linked are all part of being methodical. The PEACE interview model also helps.

Personal style
Style matters because it affects the motivation of the interviewee to be accurate and relevant in their replies. Establishing a rapport means being genuinely open, interested and approachable, as well as being interested in the interviewee’s feelings or welfare.
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/victims-and-witnesses/

I see nothing there recommending pre-interview discussions.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2020, 11:37:53 PM
I see nothing there recommending pre-interview discussions.

OK ... your turn now to show yours.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 07, 2020, 07:35:17 AM
OK ... your turn now to show yours.

My what?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 08:00:29 AM
Objectives of the interview

Before starting an interview, the objectives of the interview should be explained to the interviewee, and they should be provided with an outline or route map of it.

For example, interviewers may say:

‘During this interview I will talk to you about (list objectives).’
Then go on to explain:

‘I will also ask you about anything else which may become relevant during the interview in order to properly establish the facts and issues.’
Routines and expectations

It is good practice to explain to the interviewee that if they nod or shake their head the interviewer will state that they have done so. It should also be explained that notes will be taken during the interview.

It may be useful to inform the interviewee that although the police wish to establish certain facts and issues, it is the interviewee’s opportunity to explain their involvement or non-involvement in the incident under investigation.

Investigators should encourage the interviewee to voice anything which they feel is relevant, explaining that there is no time limit for the interview and that as much detail as possible is required, encouraging the interviewee to voice anything which they feel is relevant.

The interviewee should be reassured that they will not be interrupted. It may be appropriate to ask the interviewee to consider fully any question they are being asked before they answer.

https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/investigative-interviewing/#planning-and-preparation
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 08:43:05 AM
My what?
You’ve made an insinuation, now time to explain yourself fully.  With cites preferably.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 07, 2020, 09:26:42 AM
The tapas were interviewed as witnesses... It's quite normal to take an informal approach from my personal experience... Being interviewed as a suspect is totally different
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2020, 09:43:14 AM
My what?

You asked for a link to interview techniques with which you have been provided; in a nutshell I think the cite I provided gives indications of ways in which to relax a witness and gain a rapport which will encourage the witness to impart as much information as remembered.

I think that is the technique as recorded in the rogatory interviews, which you have criticised in your post saying, "The rogatory interviews were very friendly, weren't they? It seems little off-the-record rehearsals chats took place too in some cases before the actual interviews were recorded."

I have provided a cite to back up my previous assertion in reply that you evidenced ignorance of interview techniques.

The ball is now in your court to supply a cite substantiating the insinuation made in your post.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 07, 2020, 09:45:29 AM
You asked for a link to interview techniques with which you have been provided; in a nutshell I think the cite I provided gives indications of ways in which to relax a witness and gain a rapport which will encourage the witness to impart as much information as remembered.

I think that is the technique as recorded in the rogatory interviews, which you have criticised in your post saying, "The rogatory interviews were very friendly, weren't they? It seems little off-the-record rehearsals chats took place too in some cases before the actual interviews were recorded."

I have provided a cite to back up my previous assertion in reply that you evidenced ignorance of interview techniques.

The ball is now in your court to supply a cite substantiating the insinuation made in your post.

This is another galaxy off topic.
What about the poignant message?
Get a grip kids.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2020, 09:54:05 AM
Objectives of the interview

Before starting an interview, the objectives of the interview should be explained to the interviewee, and they should be provided with an outline or route map of it.

For example, interviewers may say:

‘During this interview I will talk to you about (list objectives).’
Then go on to explain:

‘I will also ask you about anything else which may become relevant during the interview in order to properly establish the facts and issues.’
Routines and expectations

It is good practice to explain to the interviewee that if they nod or shake their head the interviewer will state that they have done so. It should also be explained that notes will be taken during the interview.

It may be useful to inform the interviewee that although the police wish to establish certain facts and issues, it is the interviewee’s opportunity to explain their involvement or non-involvement in the incident under investigation.

Investigators should encourage the interviewee to voice anything which they feel is relevant, explaining that there is no time limit for the interview and that as much detail as possible is required, encouraging the interviewee to voice anything which they feel is relevant.

The interviewee should be reassured that they will not be interrupted. It may be appropriate to ask the interviewee to consider fully any question they are being asked before they answer.

https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/investigative-interviewing/#planning-and-preparation

I would call that a case of putting an interviewee at ease in what might be an entirely unusual situation which by its very nature might be very stressful and unsettling for some.
I find it extraordinary that doing so and ensuring that the interviewee fully understands the process can be seen as anything other than it is.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
This is another galaxy off topic.
What about the poignant message?
Get a grip kids.
haven’t you got important analysis to end getting on with?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: G-Unit on January 07, 2020, 11:38:57 AM
haven’t you got important analysis to end getting on with?

In other words 'What's going on? Tell me, tell me!'  @)(++(*
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 07, 2020, 11:43:01 AM
In other words 'What's going on? Tell me, tell me!'  @)(++(*

I think it's more poking fun.... Holly has set herself up as a super sleuth where she claims everyone else has failed... She claims the case was simple to solve and we're all a bit thick not to have seen what she saw. Isn't it normal to expect her to come up with something substantial
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 07, 2020, 11:44:36 AM
haven’t you got important analysis to end getting on with?
I'm working on the timeframes as laid out by the ECHR.
Expect a preliminary terms of reference, scoping document in Q3 2027.

On a serious note, I'm on it, like the hood of an automobile.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 07, 2020, 11:58:19 AM
I think it's more poking fun.... Holly has set herself up as a super sleuth where she claims everyone else has failed... She claims the case was simple to solve and we're Al a bit thick not to have seen what she saw. Isn't it normal to expect her to come up with something substantial

Where have I said everyone else has failed and others are a bit thick?  Its not me that denigrates those that read The Sun and watch 'Loose Women'!

It can help being a Johnny-come-lately.  I've also looked at other cases and can see common themes.  Plus I am not remotely interested in wasting time and energy on the supporter/sceptic thing. 

Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 11:59:03 AM
In other words 'What's going on? Tell me, tell me!'  @)(++(*
yes, I can’t bear the suspense, it’s even affecting my appetite, I’m so excited.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 07, 2020, 12:01:56 PM
I see nothing there recommending pre-interview discussions.

I think a bit of rapport building is the norm in an attempt to put individuals at ease and get the best out of them?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 07, 2020, 12:21:16 PM
Where have I said everyone else has failed and others are a bit thick?  Its not me that denigrates those that read The Sun and watch 'Loose Women'!

It can help being a Johnny-come-lately.  I've also looked at other cases and can see common themes.  Plus I am not remotely interested in wasting time and energy on the supporter/sceptic thing.

You suggested SY might have to carry out a revue to discover why you were able to solve the case so easily.... You described it as a simple case to solve... And a lot more.
All that is plain barmy imo. Its been almost 6 months now since you informed SY..

Can you really not see you are totally and utterly wrong..

A theory with no real evidence to support it
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 07, 2020, 12:34:32 PM
You suggested SY might have to carry out a revue to discover why you were able to solve the case so easily.... You described it as a simple case to solve... And a lot more.
All that is plain barmy imo. Its been almost 6 months now since you informed SY..

Can you really not see you are totally and utterly wrong..

A theory with no real evidence to support it

Cite please

It is a simple case to solve imo based on the fact I believe the perp was someone who knew the McCanns MO of an evening and this narrows it down considerably. 

A bit of pot calling there Davel.

For all any of us know the perps might well have been charged!
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 07, 2020, 01:09:13 PM
I think a bit of rapport building is the norm in an attempt to put individuals at ease and get the best out of them?

I totally agree.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: slartibartfast on January 07, 2020, 01:45:47 PM
You suggested SY might have to carry out a revue to discover why you were able to solve the case so easily.... You described it as a simple case to solve... And a lot more.
All that is plain barmy imo. Its been almost 6 months now since you informed SY..

Can you really not see you are totally and utterly wrong..

A theory with no real evidence to support it

An SY revue should be entertaining.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 07, 2020, 02:05:06 PM
Cite please

It is a simple case to solve imo based on the fact I believe the perp was someone who knew the McCanns MO of an evening and this narrows it down considerably. 

A bit of pot calling there Davel.

For all any of us know the perps might well have been charged!

your post

I know I was thinking the same.  Hopefully there will be a root and branch review or to borrow a phrase from KM 'no stone unturned' in finding out what went wrong.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10983.msg553096#msg553096
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 07, 2020, 02:28:37 PM
your post

I know I was thinking the same.  Hopefully there will be a root and branch review or to borrow a phrase from KM 'no stone unturned' in finding out what went wrong.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10983.msg553096#msg553096

Irony in response to G-Unit's post!
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 07, 2020, 02:40:29 PM
Irony in response to G-Unit's post!
That's plain for anyone with the merest sense of humour - that was a tongue in cheek comment.
Although I can see how some members of society may miss that not so subtle throwaway remark and take it at face value.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 07, 2020, 02:41:55 PM
Irony in response to G-Unit's post!

I can see why it would be regarded as a joke but that applies to most of your posts re your claiming to have solved the case
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 07, 2020, 02:43:34 PM
That's plain for anyone with the merest sense of humour - that was a tongue in cheek comment.
Although I can see how some members of society may miss that not so subtle throwaway remark and take it at face value.

I dont really know why im commneting on something so absurd......
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 07, 2020, 02:44:11 PM
I can see why it would be regarded as a joke but that applies to most of your posts re your claiming to have solved the case
But you used it as a cite, meaning you had it in your back pocket, along with the rest of your 'I'm right' collection of quotes. How many more have you misconstrued?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 07, 2020, 02:56:07 PM
But you used it as a cite, meaning you had it in your back pocket, along with the rest of your 'I'm right' collection of quotes. How many more have you misconstrued?

I think based on hollys other posts its quite reasonable to think it was serious....have you finished assessing her latest addition to her solution. Imagine....Holly solving the case from her armchailr in half an hour ....leaves the professionals to shame. They've had six months to assess her theory .....the only person I can see being locked up is Holly...if you get my drift
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on January 07, 2020, 04:19:35 PM
I think based on hollys other posts its quite reasonable to think it was serious....have you finished assessing her latest addition to her solution. Imagine....Holly solving the case from her armchailr in half an hour ....leaves the professionals to shame. They've had six months to assess her theory .....the only person I can see being locked up is Holly...if you get my drift

What other posts? 

The fact remains Davel a witness came forward in the early days claiming she observed a man acting suspiciously.  This may or may not be true but in any event why would the authorities take this witness at face value?  Why wasn't the testimony corroborated: passport/flights, hotel stayed in times arrived and left, hire car examined, employers and neighbours contacted?   
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 07, 2020, 05:34:28 PM
Irony in response to G-Unit's post!
I really don’t think it was.  Surely if you believed the case was that easy to solve then a review of Op Grange and its inability to solve such an easy case would not be an ironical suggestion at all.  It was G-Unit taking the mick, you were in earnest, IMO. 

Proof

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10983.15
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2020, 05:35:54 PM
An SY revue should be entertaining.

I'd pay to to see that  @)(++(*
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 07, 2020, 06:22:17 PM
An SY revue should be entertaining.

When the end game arrives, they will have to justify their expenditure.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 07, 2020, 06:59:06 PM
When the end game arrives, they will have to justify their expenditure.

I agree
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 08, 2020, 09:38:58 AM
In other words 'What's going on? Tell me, tell me!'  @)(++(*
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 08, 2020, 09:43:27 AM
Del
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 08, 2020, 05:00:39 PM
When the end game arrives, they will have to justify their expenditure.

To who?
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: The General on January 08, 2020, 05:19:34 PM
To who?
Probably some dubious, cursory Parliamentary Select Committee or 'public enquiry'.
Title: Re: McCann's poignant 2019 Christmas message to supporters.
Post by: barrier on January 08, 2020, 06:10:14 PM
Probably some dubious, cursory Parliamentary Select Committee or 'public enquiry'.

Well Rowley set it up nicely for some one.



Big cases can take a lot of resource and a lot of time and we have that with more conventional
cases which Scotland Yard gets involved with that run over many years. I think it’s worth noting that
this cold case approach we do, every year we’re solving cases that have gone cold years ago. I think
in the last year it’s 35 rape cases, and two murder cases. Some of those reaching back to the 1980s.
The cold case approach does have some expense, it is time-consuming, looking back at old records,
but it does help solve old cases and you give families and victims an understanding of what went on.
It’s worthwhile. This case is unusual, it’s not in Scotland Yard’s remit to investigate crimes across the
world normally. In this case, in 2011, the Portuguese and British prime ministers were discussing the
case and agreed that Scotland Yard would help and recognising that it’s not what we’re normally
funded for, we were given extra money to put a team together to work with the Portuguese and that’s
what we’ve been doing ever since. We’ve tried to be careful about public money and we started with
that massive sifting and we’ve narrowed the enquiry, the funding has reduced accordingly. And we
will stick with it as long as the funding is available, as long as there are sensible lines of enquiry to
pursue.