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We heard it on the first few weeks of Madeleine Beth McCanns disappearance, it was a British cultural edit that let poor Maddie be 'abducted' according to her parents.
This has been mentioned a lot on this forum by people who support this idea. Claiming it to be a cultural normal behaviour, and not just embraced by a sub culture of neglegctful parents. Trying to normalise it, excuse it is in my opinion, abhorant and vile. Especially as children do suffer, no matter what job the parents do, as the McCann case shows, There is no excuse for bad parenting, so let us not normalise it.
Maybe this mother was just 'lucky'?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3388340/British-policewoman-arrested-leaving-sleeping-baby-Manhattan-hotel-room-Single-mother-sues-New-York-authorities-claiming-child-held-hostage-kidnapped-foreign-country.html#reader-comments
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They done't mess about in the US do they? She wasn't even out wining and dining during her 30 minute absence.
Is the attitude of some people a hang-over from the Victorian attitude that children should be seen and not heard, I wonder? European people find our relationships with our children strange, I do know. I also know that not all modern parents would support the 'cultural difference' argument, they are very committed to the care of their children.
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They done't mess about in the US do they? She wasn't even out wining and dining during her 30 minute absence.
Is the attitude of some people a hang-over from the Victorian attitude that children should be seen and not heard, I wonder? European people find our relationships with our children strange, I do know. I also know that not all modern parents would support the 'cultural difference' argument, they are very committed to the care of their children.
Hotel baby listening services are alive...well and legal in the UK...more to this story no doubt
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Hotel baby listening services are alive...well and legal in the UK...more to this story no doubt
Not so legal if the child is 'abducted'. re being legal has this been tested and confirmed in law? Just because people do it does not make it right!
It is now illegal to take and leave your child abroad for 'cultural' reasons.
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Not so legal if the child is 'abducted'. re being legal has this been tested and confirmed in law? Just because people do it does not make it right!
It is now illegal to take and leave your child abroad for 'cultural' reasons.
I'm not making any judgement just stating a fact...
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Not so legal if the child is 'abducted'. re being legal has this been tested and confirmed in law? Just because people do it does not make it right!
It is now illegal to take and leave your child abroad for 'cultural' reasons.
What do you mean by "cultural" reasons?
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What do you mean by "cultural" reasons?
FGM and arranged marriages for children as young as 6. Mentally and physically disabled children being married to families in India to get citizenship. You didn't know about this? oh ok. great parenting skills eh?
FGM: This has been hidden for too long! And Mr Wonderful himself- god like- Nelson Mandella did nothing about it in his country! 6 YEAR OLDS having full genital butchery! nothing to do with any particular religion- just cultural, within 'black' tribes. Still going on.
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Weird story. Woman goes away for three months!! Then stays at what looks like a Hostel, with her little boy.
Why didn't she go for a shorter length of time and then stay in a proper hotel where she would have had a kettle for one thing to boil out the baby's bottles?
There's more to this story than meets the eye.
Strange that the child was handed over to Foster Parents and that she has had to come home without him.
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Weird story. Woman goes away for three months!! Then stays at what looks like a Hostel, with her little boy.
Why didn't she go for a shorter length of time and then stay in a proper hotel where she would have had a kettle for one thing to boil out the baby's bottles?
There's more to this story than meets the eye.
Strange that the child was handed over to Foster Parents and that she has had to come home without him.
She was on Maternity leave and he needed vitamin D for his development? Lol
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Weird story. Woman goes away for three months!! Then stays at what looks like a Hostel, with her little boy.
Why didn't she go for a shorter length of time and then stay in a proper hotel where she would have had a kettle for one thing to boil out the baby's bottles?
There's more to this story than meets the eye.
Strange that the child was handed over to Foster Parents and that she has had to come home without him.
Strange that she hasn't even been found guilty of neglect and still loses her child - isn't that a bit "police state"?
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Strange that she hasn't even been found guilty of neglect and still loses her child - isn't that a bit "police state"?
That's why I think there is more to this story Alf, it's a bit OTT.
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That's why I think there is more to this story Alf, it's a bit OTT.
If my parents had been reported by staff at the hotel in NY we stayed in where they left me and my infant sister alone to go out on the razz one night in the early 70s, then we would both have been raised by foster parents which would quite likely have ruined our young lives. My parents were stupid, and quite rightly deserved a reprimand or fine, but as loving, caring parents on the whole and with happy well adjusted children, to remove us from their care would have been utterly callous and devastating for all concerned.
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If my parents had been reported by staff at the hotel in NY we stayed in where they left me and my infant sister alone to go out on the razz one night in the early 70s, then we would both have been raised by foster parents which would quite likely have ruined our young lives. My parents were stupid, and quite rightly deserved a reprimand or fine, but as loving, caring parents on the whole and with happy well adjusted children, to remove us from their care would have been utterly callous and devastating for all concerned.
Doubt very much if the child was taken away to foster care for her just leaving him for 30 minutes.
As for the putting him on the floor when she had breakfast, well if he was on the carpet what's the problem?
It is callous, the child is growing up without his Mum and she's come home without him, quite bizarre.
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If my parents had been reported by staff at the hotel in NY we stayed in where they left me and my infant sister alone to go out on the razz one night in the early 70s, then we would both have been raised by foster parents which would quite likely have ruined our young lives. My parents were stupid, and quite rightly deserved a reprimand or fine, but as loving, caring parents on the whole and with happy well adjusted children, to remove us from their care would have been utterly callous and devastating for all concerned.
So, are you agreeing with this parenting behaviour? and if a child is raped, murdered, abducted, whilst theor parents 'enjoy' themselves, then it would be someone elses fault? the police perhaps or the guy who phoned the police? the journalist who reported it and blamed the parents? who's fault would it be in your opinion Alfie.
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I just read up to find the article in question.
Strange story, but hard to tell if the article is accurate or not. It repeats the same details over and over for no fathomable reason.
I think I'll wait for further information on that one.
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I just read up to find the article in question.
Strange story, but hard to tell if the article is accurate or not. It repeats the same details over and over for no fathomable reason.
I think I'll wait for further information on that one.
It was in the Guardian and Independant newspapers.
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It was in the Guardian and Independant newspapers.
Was it?
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Was it?
Yes, I skimmed through them for research on something, and came across this story. I went to an American forum and it was being discussed.
I was correct in stating that there is a sub culture where this kind of treatment of children is the 'norm'. It is NOT embedded or accepted by mainstream families or accepted as UK culture for everyone to leave theior children alone at night in strange coutries...
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Yes, I skimmed through them for research on something, and came across this story. I went to an American forum and it was being discussed.
I was correct in stating that there is a sub culture where this kind of treatment of children is the 'norm'. It is NOT embedded or accepted by mainstream families or accepted as UK culture for everyone to leave theior children alone at night in strange coutries...
For the moment, I can't find anything other than a few shoddy tabloids that have probably picked it up from the DM.
Strange story, though. I'll wait for further info on it.
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For the moment, I can't find anything other than a few shoddy tabloids that have probably picked it up from the DM.
Strange story, though. I'll wait for further info on it.
I went back for the links but those papers had updated their pages. Along with the story about Missing /husband father of Eastenders Actress...
Well, nothing wrong with shoddy tabloids that is where Kate n Gerry make their money from ( serialisation) and advertising their 'charity' are you suggesting these papers tell lies and that Kate N GERRY are liars too? Oh My.
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For the moment, I can't find anything other than a few shoddy tabloids that have probably picked it up from the DM.
Strange story, though. I'll wait for further info on it.
Shoddy tabloids when the story doesn't suit. Sources when it does? @)(++(*
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Shoddy tabloids when the story doesn't suit. Sources when it does? @)(++(*
@)(++(* they love the media when the media love the mcanns and hate them when they dont 8(0(*
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Shoddy tabloids when the story doesn't suit. Sources when it does? @)(++(*
I simply can't form an opinion one way or another based on the DM article, which appears to have been then cribbed by other tabloids.
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I just read up to find the article in question.
Strange story, but hard to tell if the article is accurate or not. It repeats the same details over and over for no fathomable reason.
I think I'll wait for further information on that one.
Which parts are vague as regards accuracy.
You can check against the facts here in the first link
http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html
Two more articles here in non legalese-speak
http://www.newyorkcriminallawyer-blog.com/2015/09/endangering-the-welfare-of-a-child-how-long-is-too-long-to-leave-your-child-in-an-ny-pl-260-10-prosecution.html
https://nydefenseattorney.wordpress.com/2015/09/08/bad-parenting-or-criminal-neglect/#more-299
It seems to me the law has little tolerance, LE has absolute zero tolerance, but in this case I cannot see that the arrest was unjustified. Who leaves their 6 month old alone for an hour in a room and then alone for an hour in a public lobby!
So in answer to the OP, the defence of , its a cultural difference, is, as Judge Judy might say, BALONEY...and her being a "veteran" police officer should know better both about this area AND what NYPD are like!
I thnk at the very least the child should (if as they say they have its best interests at heart) have been taken back to the UK and let UK authorities / her and her family deal with it.
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Which parts are vague as regards accuracy.
You can check against the facts here in the first link
http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html
Two more articles here in non legalese-speak
http://www.newyorkcriminallawyer-blog.com/2015/09/endangering-the-welfare-of-a-child-how-long-is-too-long-to-leave-your-child-in-an-ny-pl-260-10-prosecution.html
https://nydefenseattorney.wordpress.com/2015/09/08/bad-parenting-or-criminal-neglect/#more-299
It seems to me the law has little tolerance, LE has absolute zero tolerance, but in this case I cannot see that the arrest was unjustified. Who leaves their 6 month old alone for an hour in a room and then alone for an hour in a public lobby!
So in answer to the OP, the defence of , its a cultural difference, is, as Judge Judy might say, BALONEY...and her being a "veteran" police officer should know better both about this area AND what NYPD are like!
I thnk at the very least the child should (if as they say they have its best interests at heart) have been taken back to the UK and let UK authorities / her and her family deal with it.
I agree that a British child should be subject to a British jurisdiction if at all possible. Being taken into care is a difficult option at any time although at times it is very necessary; but it is obvious that the NY system has its own problems.
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So, are you agreeing with this parenting behaviour? and if a child is raped, murdered, abducted, whilst theor parents 'enjoy' themselves, then it would be someone elses fault? the police perhaps or the guy who phoned the police? the journalist who reported it and blamed the parents? who's fault would it be in your opinion Alfie.
If a child is raped and murdered I would blame the rapist / murderer. Who would you blame?
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If a child is raped and murdered I would blame the rapist / murderer. Who would you blame?
probably Kate and Gerry because the child's parents were copying them
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At the moment in the US a group of lawyers have taken out a class action against New York's fostering system alleging its mismanagement. I posted the link.
This thread concerns a British child who has been taken into care and placed in that fostering system.
I would be obliged if there was an explanation forthcoming as to why my post has been removed or in which way it was deemed to be off topic.
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At the moment in the US a group of lawyers have taken out a class action against New York's fostering system alleging its mismanagement. I posted the link.
This thread concerns a British child who has been taken into care and placed in that fostering system.
I would be obliged if there was an explanation forthcoming as to why my post has been removed or in which way it was deemed to be off topic.
Because it had nothing to do with UK culture and child neglect combined and would divert from the topic.
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Please stay on topic.
Admin
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Because it had nothing to do with UK culture and child neglect combined and would divert from the topic.
Why is there a post re FGM and Nelson Mandela on this thread then
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I don't think there is such a thing as UK culture. The UK has many cultures reflecting our diverse population. Child neglect takes many forms, so I will just concentrate on this thread - leaving children alone and unsupervised at home or on holiday.
Most cases of children being left alone stem from the carer(s) wanting to go somewhere or do something and not wanting to either arrange childcare or take the child with them. This can range from nipping to the shops to going away on holiday for a couple of weeks, and it doesn't seem to be just one societal group doing it, so I would say it's not a cultural phenomenon.
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Why is there a post re FGM and Nelson Mandela on this thread then
Because it was posted by a "sceptic". Say no more.
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Which parts are vague as regards accuracy.
You can check against the facts here in the first link
http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html
Two more articles here in non legalese-speak
http://www.newyorkcriminallawyer-blog.com/2015/09/endangering-the-welfare-of-a-child-how-long-is-too-long-to-leave-your-child-in-an-ny-pl-260-10-prosecution.html
https://nydefenseattorney.wordpress.com/2015/09/08/bad-parenting-or-criminal-neglect/#more-299
It seems to me the law has little tolerance, LE has absolute zero tolerance, but in this case I cannot see that the arrest was unjustified. Who leaves their 6 month old alone for an hour in a room and then alone for an hour in a public lobby!
So in answer to the OP, the defence of , its a cultural difference, is, as Judge Judy might say, BALONEY...and her being a "veteran" police officer should know better both about this area AND what NYPD are like!
I thnk at the very least the child should (if as they say they have its best interests at heart) have been taken back to the UK and let UK authorities / her and her family deal with it.
Thanks for finding those links, Mercury.
At the moment, the case does seem a bit odd, but this is the initial LE evidence and I haven't read sny explanation from the defence yet. Has it been excluded that she'd arranged for someone to monitor the baby during her absence, for example? (No idea, just wondering.)
Whatever the reality, I'd agree that the baby should be repatriated to be closer to relatives (unless there is a major reason which this wouldn't be in the child's interest).
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Interesting comment from a Times reader on the story:
The staff member who believes they saw the child on the floor unattended for an hour should be charged with neglect. Because they left the child on the ground for an hour unattended. When they first saw the child on the ground, they believed he was unattended. Instead of immediately going to his aid, they left him for an hour. Then they called the police.
The mother did not believe the child was unattended as she was nearby and he was in her full view. She had no need to go pick up the child. However, the person who believed he was unattended did have that need, by their own assessment of the situation. If I thought this child was genuinely in danger, I would immediately remove him from danger. I wouldn't wait a moment, let alone an hour! The fact that they didn't do anything other than indignantly wait an hour and then make a telephone call shows them to be neglectful by their own standards.
Sounds like this is a battle over 'standards of motherhood', where the staff member didn't approve of the mother's parenting style, so waited for an opportunity to shame her, using the power and 'moral authority' of the State. The last thing on the staff member's mind was the welfare of the child. He was just being used as an emblem of that person's self-righteousness.
Perhaps the staff member didn't like the fact that she was single mother? I wonder if the mother let on to anyone that the baby was conceived without a father being involved? Conservative ruse sort of backfired then, didn't it? Now he's got a gay 'dad'.
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Interesting comment from a Times reader on the story:
The staff member who believes they saw the child on the floor unattended for an hour should be charged with neglect. Because they left the child on the ground for an hour unattended. When they first saw the child on the ground, they believed he was unattended. Instead of immediately going to his aid, they left him for an hour. Then they called the police.
The mother did not believe the child was unattended as she was nearby and he was in her full view. She had no need to go pick up the child. However, the person who believed he was unattended did have that need, by their own assessment of the situation. If I thought this child was genuinely in danger, I would immediately remove him from danger. I wouldn't wait a moment, let alone an hour! The fact that they didn't do anything other than indignantly wait an hour and then make a telephone call shows them to be neglectful by their own standards.
Sounds like this is a battle over 'standards of motherhood', where the staff member didn't approve of the mother's parenting style, so waited for an opportunity to shame her, using the power and 'moral authority' of the State. The last thing on the staff member's mind was the welfare of the child. He was just being used as an emblem of that person's self-righteousness.
Perhaps the staff member didn't like the fact that she was single mother? I wonder if the mother let on to anyone that the baby was conceived without a father being involved? Conservative ruse sort of backfired then, didn't it? Now he's got a gay 'dad'.
Not to mention the person who wrote to The Times.
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Thanks for finding those links, Mercury.
At the moment, the case does seem a bit odd, but this is the initial LE evidence and I haven't read sny explanation from the defence yet. Has it been excluded that she'd arranged for someone to monitor the baby during her absence, for example? (No idea, just wondering.)
Whatever the reality, I'd agree that the baby should be repatriated to be closer to relatives (unless there is a major reason which this wouldn't be in the child's interest).
She made an affidavit and at some stage it all went sub judice but the way it reads in the Telegraph she says that in the lobby she was only a foot away....which jars alot with what the employee at the desk said
It also seems a weak defence to say in our culture it is not considered dangerous to put a baby in a crib..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/12087942/British-policewoman-sues-to-get-son-taken-from-her-in-New-York-returned-to-UK.html
Not going to follow this anymore..but the point of the thread I think was asking the question is "cultural differences" a good defence to what others/reasonable people might consider "bad news" ....I think not in general
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(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYOsOxbWcAEEyiw.jpg)
It looks as if there may indeed be a little more revealed about what may have been a culture clash which precipitated the British child being taken into care in New York.
It will be interesting to get the facts of the case. In the interim one hopes the child is not suffering distress or ill effect through being removed from his mother and placed in foster care.
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Not to mention the person who wrote to The Times.
The person who wrote the comment may be perceived by you as self-righteous but at least his or her self-righteousness did not lead to the disastrous consequences for a young child, whisked away from his mother on a flimsy pretext and on a permanent basis.
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(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYOsOxbWcAEEyiw.jpg)
It looks as if there may indeed be a little more revealed about what may have been a culture clash which precipitated the British child being taken into care in New York.
It will be interesting to get the facts of the case. In the interim one hopes the child is not suffering distress or ill effect through being removed from his mother and placed in foster care.
so leaving the little boy alone in the room for 30 mins was not neglect...if the facts are as she described...lets hope she wins her case
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so leaving the little boy alone in the room for 30 mins was not neglect...if the facts are as she described...lets hope she wins her case
This woman is a weirdo.
IMHO, of course.
and she doesn't deserve a penny.
Perhaps she will write a book. %&5%£ %&5%£ %&5%£
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http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html (http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html)
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Interesting comment from a Times reader on the story:
The staff member who believes they saw the child on the floor unattended for an hour should be charged with neglect. Because they left the child on the ground for an hour unattended. When they first saw the child on the ground, they believed he was unattended. Instead of immediately going to his aid, they left him for an hour. Then they called the police.
The mother did not believe the child was unattended as she was nearby and he was in her full view. She had no need to go pick up the child. However, the person who believed he was unattended did have that need, by their own assessment of the situation. If I thought this child was genuinely in danger, I would immediately remove him from danger. I wouldn't wait a moment, let alone an hour! The fact that they didn't do anything other than indignantly wait an hour and then make a telephone call shows them to be neglectful by their own standards.
Sounds like this is a battle over 'standards of motherhood', where the staff member didn't approve of the mother's parenting style, so waited for an opportunity to shame her, using the power and 'moral authority' of the State. The last thing on the staff member's mind was the welfare of the child. He was just being used as an emblem of that person's self-righteousness.
Perhaps the staff member didn't like the fact that she was single mother? I wonder if the mother let on to anyone that the baby was conceived without a father being involved? Conservative ruse sort of backfired then, didn't it? Now he's got a gay 'dad'.
Ah the 'McCann defence ' it's always someone else's fault ' !
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Ah the 'McCann defence ' it's always someone else's fault ' !
That is the McCann's operational procedure to a tee.
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This woman is a weirdo.
IMHO, of course.
and she doesn't deserve a penny.
Perhaps she will write a book. %&5%£ %&5%£ %&5%£
A Metropolitan Police officer too.
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A Metropolitan Police officer too.
Indeed.
Is she still serving ?
I wonder if she has asked the McCann's for advice.
Was she demonstrating 'responsible parenting skills' ?
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http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html (http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html)
A very interesting read, especially the discussion over whether leaving a small child alone and unsupervised is a criminal act or 'simply bad parenting'. The risks are detailed, and they seem to be saying that a parent should be able to predict the risks;
reasonable inferences to be drawn from this that would support findings that these circumstances were likely to cause harm to the children and that the defendant knew this to be so." The same is true here. As the People correctly argue, Lisk Aff. at ¶ 5, an infant child left alone in a hotel room could have placed a small object in his mouth and choked, been suffocated by bedding, or fallen over and hit his head.
http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html
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A very interesting read, especially the discussion over whether leaving a small child alone and unsupervised is a criminal act or 'simply bad parenting'. The risks are detailed, and they seem to be saying that a parent should be able to predict the risks;
reasonable inferences to be drawn from this that would support findings that these circumstances were likely to cause harm to the children and that the defendant knew this to be so." The same is true here. As the People correctly argue, Lisk Aff. at ¶ 5, an infant child left alone in a hotel room could have placed a small object in his mouth and choked, been suffocated by bedding, or fallen over and hit his head.
http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html
It is looking to me like a complete over reaction by the police involved and an attempt by the police to save face.
Originally charged with possession of codeine even though they were prescribed by her doctor. Then even with this knowledge the decision to press charges in court.
What evidence to support the neglect charges.......then even though the original decision was to press charge of neglect and possession of a controlled substance...all charges suddenly dropped....
Child taken into care for 6 or so months...with no proof of neglect....looks like she has a strong case against NYPD
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reading the evidence of Mr Roque Duran...
he claims the defendant left the baby on the floor of the lobby ...unattended...for one hour...what did mr Duran do during this time...watch...get on with his work...no...he left the baby on the floor..... .anyone would have picked the baby up.....something is not right here
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reading the evidence of Mr Roque Duran...
he claims the defendant left the baby on the floor of the lobby ...unattended...for one hour...what did mr Duran do during this time...watch...get on with his work...no...he left the baby on the floor..... .anyone would have picked the baby up.....something is not right here
Take it up with the mother.
After all, she was responsible for what she did, and people should take responsibility for their actions, shouldn't they dave ?
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Take it up with the mother.
After all, she was responsible for what she did, and people should take responsibility for their actions, shouldn't they dave ?
you do make rather silly posts...
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you do make rather silly posts...
It's not silly.
Yet again, you avoid answering the question properly.
Perhaps you should read Priestley's classic about taking responsibility for your actions.
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reading the evidence of Mr Roque Duran...
he claims the defendant left the baby on the floor of the lobby ...unattended...for one hour...what did mr Duran do during this time...watch...get on with his work...no...he left the baby on the floor..... .anyone would have picked the baby up.....something is not right here
I would agree, we haven't the whole story. I mean, who would choose to leave their small child on a (probably dirty) hotel floor
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It's not silly.
Yet again, you avoid answering the question properly.
Perhaps you should read Priestley's classic about taking responsibility for your actions.
it is more than silly to tell me to take it up with the mother...in fact its absolutely stupid
Roque claimed the baby was on the floor of the lobby for an hour....and no one picked the baby up...looks like roque is lying and no wonder charges have been dropped
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I would agree, we haven't the whole story. I mean, who would choose to leave their small child on a (probably dirty) hotel floor
yes...supposedly left on the floor for an hour...and supposedly no one picked the baby up...rubbish
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reading the evidence of Mr Roque Duran...
he claims the defendant left the baby on the floor of the lobby ...unattended...for one hour...what did mr Duran do during this time...watch...get on with his work...no...he left the baby on the floor..... .anyone would have picked the baby up.....something is not right here
I'm a woman and I wouldn't pick someone else's baby up. I may have stood by it and guarded it, but that's all. Any man picking up someone else's child is asking for a big argument at the very least these days. I'm more inclined to wonder how far away the mother actually was and why she chose to leave her baby on the floor of a rather seedy hotel in New York. I wouldn't leave my handbag unattended in a similar situation, let alone my baby.
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it is more than silly to tell me to take it up with the mother...in fact its absolutely stupid
Roque claimed the baby was on the floor of the lobby for an hour....and no one picked the baby up...looks like roque is lying and no wonder charges have been dropped
You seem to forget she left her baby in a hotel room unattended.
Now dave, should people take responsibility for their actions, YES or NO ?
and not blame others ?
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I'm a woman and I wouldn't pick someone else's baby up. I may have stood by it and guarded it, but that's all. Any man picking up someone else's child is asking for a big argument at the very least these days. I'm more inclined to wonder how far away the mother actually was and why she chose to leave her baby on the floor of a rather seedy hotel in New York. I wouldn't leave my handbag unattended in a similar situation, let alone my baby.
I totally agree with that.
ALL this is the mother's fault.
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I'm a woman and I wouldn't pick someone else's baby up. I may have stood by it and guarded it, but that's all. Any man picking up someone else's child is asking for a big argument at the very least these days. I'm more inclined to wonder how far away the mother actually was and why she chose to leave her baby on the floor of a rather seedy hotel in New York. I wouldn't leave my handbag unattended in a similar situation, let alone my baby.
I'm a man...and if I saw a baby unnattended on a hotel floor...I would ask poeple around whose the baby was ...then pick the baby up and take it to reception......not leave it on the floor for an hour..ridiculous
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I'm a woman and I wouldn't pick someone else's baby up. I may have stood by it and guarded it, but that's all. Any man picking up someone else's child is asking for a big argument at the very least these days. I'm more inclined to wonder how far away the mother actually was and why she chose to leave her baby on the floor of a rather seedy hotel in New York. I wouldn't leave my handbag unattended in a similar situation, let alone my baby.
we don't have any proper evidence the she did leave the bay on the lobby floor...but you are going to jump to your conclusions without evidence.. par for the course
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I totally agree with that.
ALL this is the mother's fault.
I don't know about UK culture, but certain UK citizens seem to subscribe to a culture which blames everyone else for their own failings. I find it objectionable that certain people excuse their bad behaviour by saying it's part of 'British culture'.
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I'm a man...and if I saw a baby unnattended on a hotel floor...I would ask poeple around whose the baby was ...then pick the baby up and take it to reception......not leave it on the floor for an hour..ridiculous
Leaving her baby alone in the hotel room was ridiculous dave, wasn't it ?
Or are you supporting what she did ?
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I don't know about UK culture, but certain UK citizens seem to subscribe to a culture which blames everyone else for their own failings. I find it objectionable that certain people excuse their bad behaviour by saying it's part of 'British culture'.
Indeed G-Unit.
It's the not me 'gov mentality.
It sucks.
Priestly got it so right.
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we don't have any proper evidence the she did leave the bay on the lobby floor...but you are going to jump to your conclusions without evidence.. par for the course
Did she deny it? I'm not relying on something a policeman said two years ago and calling it 'evidence' like some do.
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I don't know about UK culture, but certain UK citizens seem to subscribe to a culture which blames everyone else for their own failings. I find it objectionable that certain people excuse their bad behaviour by saying it's part of 'British culture'.
It is acceptable in the uk to leave babies in hotel rooms for 30 mins.....hotels actually promote this
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Did she deny it? I'm not relying on something a policeman said two years ago and calling it 'evidence' like some do.
she has denied it...
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It is acceptable in the uk to leave babies in hotel rooms for 30 mins.....hotels actually promote this
CITE.
Including of course for the U.S.A.
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Did she deny it? I'm not relying on something a policeman said two years ago and calling it 'evidence' like some do.
you are relying on something said by someone you do not know and whose evidence sounds ridiculous
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CITE.
Including of course for the U.S.A.
watergate bay hotel...cornwall ..Ive satyed there and it has been mentioned before...we are talking about UK culture not US
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watergate bay hotel...cornwall ..Ive satyed there and it has been mentioned before...we are talking about UK culture not US
That's not a cite, just one hearsay example.
The case in question happened in the U.S.
What UK culture by the way ?
I think the vast majority of parents would never have done what this woman did.
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That's not a cite, just one hearsay example.
The case in question happened in the U.S.
What UK culture by the way ?
I think the vast majority of parents would never have done what this woman did.
hearsay.. I've given a full cite many times...
Watergate Bay Hotel operates a baby listening service which can be used at The Beach Hut and Fifteen Cornwall and we can provide a babysitter between 6pm and 2am, so that you can enjoy an evening out! All of our babysitters are Kids’ Zone staff.
http://www.netmums.com/national/view/holidays/uk-hotels-guest-houses-and-b-bs/watergate-hotel
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http://www.britainsfinest.co.uk/hotels/search_results.cfm/searchclasscode/305
Have a look at the number of hotels offering baby listening
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It is acceptable in the uk to leave babies in hotel rooms for 30 mins.....hotels actually promote this
It's hard to know if this is the Hotel's idea or their perception that some parents want this service, isn't it? This one is clearly not taking full responsibility for the children.
Baby monitoring and baby listening
Watergate Bay Hotel operates a baby monitoring and baby listening service which can also be used at The Beach Hut and Fifteen Cornwall. Responsibility for the child remains with the parents at all times and it is recommended that parents check on their children regularly. Parents are not permitted to leave the hotel grounds when using the service.
- See more at: http://www.watergatebay.co.uk/stay/families/parents/#sthash.172m4nVj.dpuf
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hearsay..I've given a full cite many times...
Watergate Bay Hotel operates a baby listening service which can be used at The Beach Hut and Fifteen Cornwall and we can provide a babysitter between 6pm and 2am, so that you can enjoy an evening out! All of our babysitters are Kids’ Zone staff.
http://www.netmums.com/national/view/holidays/uk-hotels-guest-houses-and-b-bs/watergate-hotel
The case occurred in the U.S.
Now cite from there.
and this woman , the police officer, did not use any service, she left the child by itself.
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http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html (http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html)
An interesting read seemingly less concerned with the welfare of a child than the discovery of a controlled substance during a police search of luggage without a warrant.
The fact that the tablets were in their original container, properly labelled, prescribed by the doctor of the person in whose possession they were discovered ... seems to have carried no weight at all.
It has the potential to become a bit of a cause célèbre if it ever comes to trial ... and I look forward to seeing the CCTV images of the child sitting on the floor for an hour in the hotel foyer while staff manoeuvre heavy suitcases over his head.
In the interim, a British child is in the hands of the New York care system which is in the throes of a class action which alleges it cannot care for its own.
Why NYC's Foster Care System is Failing Children
JUL 10, 2015 12:30 PM
NINA WOLPOW
(http://s3.r29static.com//bin/entry/c1c/x,80/1444028/image.jpg)
PHOTO: BEBETO MATTHEWS/AP PHOTO.
City Public Advocate Letitia James, center, and child advocates hold a press conference announcing a class action lawsuit against the New York City Administration for Children’s Services (ACS) and the New York State Office of Children and Family Services (OCFS) for causing irreparable harm to children, Wednesday, July 8, 2015, in New York.
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An interesting read seemingly less concerned with the welfare of a child than the discovery of a controlled substance during a police search of luggage without a warrant.
The fact that the tablets were in their original container, properly labelled, prescribed by the doctor of the person in whose possession they were discovered ... seems to have carried no weight at all.
It has the potential to become a bit of a cause célèbre if it ever comes to trial ... and I look forward to seeing the CCTV images of the child sitting on the floor for an hour in the hotel foyer while staff manoeuvre heavy suitcases over his head.
In the interim, a British child is in the hands of the New York care system which is in the throes of a class action which alleges it cannot care for its own.
Why NYC's Foster Care System is Failing Children
JUL 10, 2015 12:30 PM
NINA WOLPOW
(http://s3.r29static.com//bin/entry/c1c/x,80/1444028/image.jpg)
PHOTO: BEBETO MATTHEWS/AP PHOTO.
City Public Advocate Letitia James, center, and child advocates hold a press conference announcing a class action lawsuit against the New York City Administration for Children’s Services (ACS) and the New York State Office of Children and Family Services (OCFS) for causing irreparable harm to children, Wednesday, July 8, 2015, in New York.
Tell me Brietta.
Is it fair to say that the vast majority of neglect/abuse of children is from the parents ?
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Ah the 'McCann defence ' it's always someone else's fault ' !
that's not really addressing the point of the post.
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Tell me Brietta.
Is it fair to say that the vast majority of neglect/abuse of children is from the parents ?
the majority of abuse toward children is from parents or friends but children in care are much more likely to be abused than those with their parents..
work that one out
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the majority of abuse toward children is from parents or friends but children in care are much more likely to be abused than those with their parents..
work that one out
Can you provide some backing for that statement?
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Can you provide some backing for that statement?
evryone with any sense would understand that to be true...do you not agree
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Can you provide some backing for that statement?
One in every hundred children living in care is abused every year in Britain, according to the most comprehensive study conducted into the issue.
The research by York University and the NSPCC is the first of its kind to uncover and analyse local authority records on abuse in foster and residential care.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/major-study-reveals-true-scale-of-abuse-of-children-living-in-care-9587244.html
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One in every hundred children living in care is abused every year in Britain, according to the most comprehensive study conducted into the issue.
The research by York University and the NSPCC is the first of its kind to uncover and analyse local authority records on abuse in foster and residential care.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/major-study-reveals-true-scale-of-abuse-of-children-living-in-care-9587244.html
Not relevant to this case.
The woman neglected her baby.
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Not relevant to this case.
The woman neglected her baby.
Allegedly.
Rather odd that you rush to judgement without knowing the full facts of the case.
Someone somewhere in Portugal publicised that Calpol can be used to drug children which led to a pretty hair raising experience in that country for at least one British couple and their child.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/maddie-mccann-police-took-our-baby-because-we-gave-her-calpol-belfast-couples-portugal-holiday-hell-30375896.html
Products containing codeine can be easily purchased over the counter in Britain with stronger analgesics available from the doctor as prescription medicine. It is not illegal to have your prescribed medicine on your person in Britain. That there is some difference in that circumstance in New York seems irrefutable.
http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html
Perhaps it behoves British parents, particularly those travelling with toddlers, to study very carefully the cultural differences in foreign countries prior to going there to enable them to decide if they wish to put their children at risk of being taken into the care systems there or as in the case of the Belfast couple, having medical procedures carried out on them without consent.
In Britain we have a fairly good cultural record which has enabled us to raise generations of children to adulthood. I have no idea why some Brits feel it incumbent to trash all things British from our police to our parenting.
I think I could manage to get used to the Portuguese climate in the twinkling of an eye and if I were as anti-British as some I would contemplate moving there (I would love to live in a brownstone building in New York).
The world is our oyster and full of interesting places.
Please don't trash a nation in the attempt to score a point (which you are not managing to do anyway) few other Nationals would even think to do that.
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Allegedly.
Rather odd that you rush to judgement without knowing the full facts of the case.
Someone somewhere in Portugal publicised that Calpol can be used to drug children which led to a pretty hair raising experience in that country for at least one British couple and their child.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/maddie-mccann-police-took-our-baby-because-we-gave-her-calpol-belfast-couples-portugal-holiday-hell-30375896.html
Products containing codeine can be easily purchased over the counter in Britain with stronger analgesics available from the doctor as prescription medicine. It is not illegal to have your prescribed medicine on your person in Britain. That there is some difference in that circumstance in New York seems irrefutable.
http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2015/2015-ny-slip-op-51097-u.html
Perhaps it behoves British parents, particularly those travelling with toddlers, to study very carefully the cultural differences in foreign countries prior to going there to enable them to decide if they wish to put their children at risk of being taken into the care systems there or as in the case of the Belfast couple, having medical procedures carried out on them without consent.
In Britain we have a fairly good cultural record which has enabled us to raise generations of children to adulthood. I have no idea why some Brits feel it incumbent to trash all things British from our police to our parenting.
I think I could manage to get used to the Portuguese climate in the twinkling of an eye and if I were as anti-British as some I would contemplate moving there (I would love to live in a brownstone building in New York).
The world is our oyster and full of interesting places.
Please don't trash a nation in the attempt to score a point (which you are not managing to do anyway) few other Nationals would even think to do that.
Total hypocrisy.
You take every chance you get to denigrate those not believing in the mccanns, and anything which goes against the mccann doctrine.
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Not relevant to this case.
The woman neglected her baby.
my post is hardly irrelevant when it was in response to a request from slarti to provide supporting evidence for my claim
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my post is hardly irrelevant when it was in response to a request from slarti to provide supporting evidence for my claim
You quoted an article giving statistics of abuse for one side (children in foster care/homes) but you ommitted to give the statistics for the other side (children in their own homes), so your response was not a proper response/all around cite...unless we are to settle with, well, "anyone with any sense would understand that to be true"
oh dear
So lets have the whole story then we can judge if your claim was correct or incorrect
In any case, the thread has been derailed from its original subject matter...is it true that "cultural differences" play a role here..is it a defence?....against the sometimes/often draconian USA mindset, or Nyone else for that matter, can the defendant in this case (who btw still has a neglect charge pending a court hearing ) claim that it is normal in the uk to leave a baby on its own for at least half an hour and leave the premises? Well, no it is not a defence.As it is not true. Was it the USA authorities place to remove the child and foster it? Instead of alerting UK authorities to come get the child? Pdq.No. Id like to see the law whch enables them to do this.If that law does not exist then maybe the UK has questions to answer. Whch is it.?
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...
Someone somewhere in Portugal publicised that Calpol can be used to drug children which led to a pretty hair raising experience in that country for at least one British couple and their child.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/maddie-mccann-police-took-our-baby-because-we-gave-her-calpol-belfast-couples-portugal-holiday-hell-30375896.html
...
Perhaps it behoves British parents, particularly those travelling with toddlers, to study very carefully the cultural differences in foreign countries prior to going there to enable them to decide if they wish to put their children at risk of being taken into the care systems there or as in the case of the Belfast couple, having medical procedures carried out on them without consent.
...
Please don't trash a nation in the attempt to score a point (which you are not managing to do anyway) few other Nationals would even think to do that.
Please let me explain how this incident was reported in Portugal. I remember seeing the reports of the hotel staff.
The couple had been drinking. They had an argument in their hotel room. The male stormed off, carrying the child with him.
The female got on the phone to hotel reception. She screamed that her child had been abducted, and insisted that the police were called immediately.
Hotel reception called the police, who duly turned up at reception. (Please don't ask when the call was placed, how long it took to respond, or whether the locality was blocked off to prevent the abductor from getting away. I don't know the answer.)
Again according to hotel staff, it is reported that the male had gone to the bar for further drinks, balanced with the child in one hand and a drink in the other. It seems the male made it back to the room before the police arrived, because he was there when they started to investigate the abduction.
The scene described was that, on a first floor hotel room, the couple were back arguing again, having left a young child outside on its own on the balcony of the flat.
In the course of investigating the incident, the police found Calpol, which is illegal in Portugal.
They took the child to hospital for tests. The mother got very upset at this. The partner was not with her. He had returned to the bar, for more drink.
The version I saw in the Irish press made the couple's room on the first floor, while the police had claimed the child had been thrown off the 8th floor. There was no mention of a beating at the hospital, merely that all the man's money had been stolen by the police while they searched the hotel room.
So there you have it.
Please feel free to pick your version. Either, the Algarve is still a hell hole, with corrupt cops and horrendous laws, a place surely to be avoided. Or, two drunken Irish parents who should have been looking after the child better, and who have been refining their tale since that incident.
I have a clear opinion of this incident, but I shall keep it to myself.
I definitely would not use this tale to attempt to exonerate or to denigrate the McCanns.
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Please let me explain how this incident was reported in Portugal. I remember seeing the reports of the hotel staff.
The couple had been drinking. They had an argument in their hotel room. The male stormed off, carrying the child with him.
The female got on the phone to hotel reception. She screamed that her child had been abducted, and insisted that the police were called immediately.
Hotel reception called the police, who duly turned up at reception. (Please don't ask when the call was placed, how long it took to respond, or whether the locality was blocked off to prevent the abductor from getting away. I don't know the answer.)
Again according to hotel staff, it is reported that the male had gone to the bar for further drinks, balanced with the child in one hand and a drink in the other. It seems the male made it back to the room before the police arrived, because he was there when they started to investigate the abduction.
The scene described was that, on a first floor hotel room, the couple were back arguing again, having left a young child outside on its own on the balcony of the flat.
In the course of investigating the incident, the police found Calpol, which is illegal in Portugal.
They took the child to hospital for tests. The mother got very upset at this. The partner was not with her. He had returned to the bar, for more drink.
The version I saw in the Irish press made the couple's room on the first floor, while the police had claimed the child had been thrown off the 8th floor. There was no mention of a beating at the hospital, merely that all the man's money had been stolen by the police while they searched the hotel room.
So there you have it.
Please feel free to pick your version. Either, the Algarve is still a hell hole, with corrupt cops and horrendous laws, a place surely to be avoided. Or, two drunken Irish parents who should have been looking after the child better, and who have been refining their tale since that incident.
I have a clear opinion of this incident, but I shall keep it to myself.
I definitely would not use this tale to attempt to exonerate or to denigrate the McCanns.
The baby was taken to the parents, couple of Irish tourists on holiday in the Algarve, on Sunday night. The girl's mother was seen on the balcony of the 8th floor of the hotel with the baby on her lap, putting her in danger. Both parents showed signs of intoxication and shot the 14 months to the pool baby. There are suspicions that the child was sedated.
A bebé foi retirada aos pais, casal de turistas irlandeses a passar férias no Algarve, no domingo à noite. A mãe da menina foi vista na varanda do 8º andar do hotel com a bebé ao colo, colocando-a em perigo. Ambos os progenitores apresentavam sinais de embriaguez e atiraram a bebé de 14 meses para a piscina. Há suspeitas de que a criança estivesse sedada.
Ler mais em: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?anno=2&depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=pt-BR&tl=en&u=http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/bebe-de-casal-irlandes-embriagado-regressa-aos-pais.html&usg=ALkJrhh4n1p89qGa_8Z2-Nnr8KI57xVS4g
(http://res3.hoteltravel.com/portugal/albufeira/hotels_resorts/paraiso_pool.jpg)
Hmmmm .... I can well see why there might be cultural differences in the upbringing of British children and those of other nationals. Ours can apparently survive being 'shot' from the eighth floor of an hotel by their parents and propelled into the hotel pool, sustained by nothing more than a spoonful of Calpol.
Good to see that the Portuguese press continues to uphold the standards established in 2007 as far as reporting on Brits and their children on holidays.
Anyway, in just a few years time it would seem that a young Eireann will be lifting golds in the Olympics if she can be rehabilitated off the Calpol by then.
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The baby was taken to the parents, couple of Irish tourists on holiday in the Algarve, on Sunday night. The girl's mother was seen on the balcony of the 8th floor of the hotel with the baby on her lap, putting her in danger. Both parents showed signs of intoxication and shot the 14 months to the pool baby. There are suspicions that the child was sedated.
A bebé foi retirada aos pais, casal de turistas irlandeses a passar férias no Algarve, no domingo à noite. A mãe da menina foi vista na varanda do 8º andar do hotel com a bebé ao colo, colocando-a em perigo. Ambos os progenitores apresentavam sinais de embriaguez e atiraram a bebé de 14 meses para a piscina. Há suspeitas de que a criança estivesse sedada.
Ler mais em: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?anno=2&depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=pt-BR&tl=en&u=http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/bebe-de-casal-irlandes-embriagado-regressa-aos-pais.html&usg=ALkJrhh4n1p89qGa_8Z2-Nnr8KI57xVS4g
(http://res3.hoteltravel.com/portugal/albufeira/hotels_resorts/paraiso_pool.jpg)
Hmmmm .... I can well see why there might be cultural differences in the upbringing of British children and those of other nationals. Ours can apparently survive being 'shot' from the eighth floor of an hotel by their parents and propelled into the hotel pool, sustained by nothing more than a spoonful of Calpol.
Good to see that the Portuguese press continues to uphold the standards established in 2007 as far as reporting on Brits and their children on holidays.
Anyway, in just a few years time it would seem that a young Eireann will be lifting golds in the Olympics if she can be rehabilitated off the Calpol by then.
This post appears to be more about denigrating a PT newspaper than UK culture.
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This post appears to be more about denigrating a PT newspaper than UK culture.
In your opinion, perhaps?
If you read Shining's post you will note she makes reference to the manner in which the incident was reported in Portugal.
You will see my post makes reference to the Portuguese press ... the quote is an example of this.
The photograph illustrates the pool of the Hotel Paraiso in Albufeira where the family were staying with the hotel in the background.
The Portuguese press reported that a months old child had been thrown from an eighth floor balcony into that pool.
If that is the evidence relied upon to denigrate Brits in popular culture and their parenting skills ... are you buying into the probability that such an event ... as reported in the Portuguese press ... is feasible?
In other words ... is the portrayal of drunken, brawling Brits drugging their children with calpol ... a fair and accurate portrayal of British culture?
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In your opinion, perhaps?
If you read Shining's post you will note she makes reference to the manner in which the incident was reported in Portugal.
You will see my post makes reference to the Portuguese press ... the quote is an example of this.
The photograph illustrates the pool of the Hotel Paraiso in Albufeira where the family were staying with the hotel in the background.
The Portuguese press reported that a months old child had been thrown from an eighth floor balcony into that pool.
If that is the evidence relied upon to denigrate Brits in popular culture and their parenting skills ... are you buying into the probability that such an event ... as reported in the Portuguese press ... is feasible?
In other words ... is the portrayal of drunken, brawling Brits drugging their children with calpol ... a fair and accurate portrayal of British culture?
the sad thing is that the portuguese people will believe these ridiculous stories
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The baby was taken to the parents, couple of Irish tourists on holiday in the Algarve, on Sunday night. The girl's mother was seen on the balcony of the 8th floor of the hotel with the baby on her lap, putting her in danger. Both parents showed signs of intoxication and shot the 14 months to the pool baby. There are suspicions that the child was sedated.
A bebé foi retirada aos pais, casal de turistas irlandeses a passar férias no Algarve, no domingo à noite. A mãe da menina foi vista na varanda do 8º andar do hotel com a bebé ao colo, colocando-a em perigo. Ambos os progenitores apresentavam sinais de embriaguez e atiraram a bebé de 14 meses para a piscina. Há suspeitas de que a criança estivesse sedada.
Ler mais em: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?anno=2&depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=pt-BR&tl=en&u=http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/bebe-de-casal-irlandes-embriagado-regressa-aos-pais.html&usg=ALkJrhh4n1p89qGa_8Z2-Nnr8KI57xVS4g
(http://res3.hoteltravel.com/portugal/albufeira/hotels_resorts/paraiso_pool.jpg)
Hmmmm .... I can well see why there might be cultural differences in the upbringing of British children and those of other nationals. Ours can apparently survive being 'shot' from the eighth floor of an hotel by their parents and propelled into the hotel pool, sustained by nothing more than a spoonful of Calpol.
Good to see that the Portuguese press continues to uphold the standards established in 2007 as far as reporting on Brits and their children on holidays.
Anyway, in just a few years time it would seem that a young Eireann will be lifting golds in the Olympics if she can be rehabilitated off the Calpol by then.
Only if she is put on EPO after being weaned off Calpol.
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In your opinion, perhaps?
If you read Shining's post you will note she makes reference to the manner in which the incident was reported in Portugal.
You will see my post makes reference to the Portuguese press ... the quote is an example of this.
The photograph illustrates the pool of the Hotel Paraiso in Albufeira where the family were staying with the hotel in the background.
The Portuguese press reported that a months old child had been thrown from an eighth floor balcony into that pool.
If that is the evidence relied upon to denigrate Brits in popular culture and their parenting skills ... are you buying into the probability that such an event ... as reported in the Portuguese press ... is feasible?
In other words ... is the portrayal of drunken, brawling Brits drugging their children with calpol ... a fair and accurate portrayal of British culture?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/3314633/Are-we-using-too-much-Calpol.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/3314633/Are-we-using-too-much-Calpol.html)
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/3314633/Are-we-using-too-much-Calpol.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/3314633/Are-we-using-too-much-Calpol.html)
article written by Christina Hopkinson...
when you read an article do you simply take it at face value or are you more critical...
Christina Hopkinson is an outspoken advocate of alternative medicine...her articles are more than a little biased
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In your opinion, perhaps?
If you read Shining's post you will note she makes reference to the manner in which the incident was reported in Portugal.
You will see my post makes reference to the Portuguese press ... the quote is an example of this.
The photograph illustrates the pool of the Hotel Paraiso in Albufeira where the family were staying with the hotel in the background.
The Portuguese press reported that a months old child had been thrown from an eighth floor balcony into that pool.
If that is the evidence relied upon to denigrate Brits in popular culture and their parenting skills ... are you buying into the probability that such an event ... as reported in the Portuguese press ... is feasible?
In other words ... is the portrayal of drunken, brawling Brits drugging their children with calpol ... a fair and accurate portrayal of British culture?
There was a time when we followed the 'when in Rome' doctrine. Now some Brits abroad ignore local culture and feelings and behave very badly;
More than 500 Brits have been arrested in the Costa del Sol in the past two years, new figures reveal.
Official data obtained from the Foreign Office shows 257 Brits were arrested on the coastal holiday retreat last year, with 260 nicked in 2013.
Around 400 of these were listed as 'general' offences, likely to include alcohol-related public order cases.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3161085/More-500-Britons-arrested-Spanish-police-Costa-del-Sol-past-two-years-new-figures-reveal.html#ixzz3wsOwegJk
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Photographs in the Greek and UK press have shown young drunken Britons having sex in bars and other public places.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4189154.stm
On the whole us Brits have got a bad reputation overseas.
Whether it's lounging by the pool shouting up to your friend's hotel balcony, spilling beer like it's water or lunging at anything in a skirt, being in a foreign clime becomes like a passport to loose behaviour.
From Lanzarote to Majorca and Thailand to Beirut, our strange whims, afternoon drinking sessions and often total disregard for local custom means we stick out like a sore thumb.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2952188/A-guide-NOT-Brit-abroad.html#ixzz3wsQwmWtv
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There was a time when we followed the 'when in Rome' doctrine. Now some Brits abroad ignore local culture and feelings and behave very badly;
More than 500 Brits have been arrested in the Costa del Sol in the past two years, new figures reveal.
Official data obtained from the Foreign Office shows 257 Brits were arrested on the coastal holiday retreat last year, with 260 nicked in 2013.
Around 400 of these were listed as 'general' offences, likely to include alcohol-related public order cases.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3161085/More-500-Britons-arrested-Spanish-police-Costa-del-Sol-past-two-years-new-figures-reveal.html#ixzz3wsOwegJk
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Photographs in the Greek and UK press have shown young drunken Britons having sex in bars and other public places.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4189154.stm
On the whole us Brits have got a bad reputation overseas.
Whether it's lounging by the pool shouting up to your friend's hotel balcony, spilling beer like it's water or lunging at anything in a skirt, being in a foreign clime becomes like a passport to loose behaviour.
From Lanzarote to Majorca and Thailand to Beirut, our strange whims, afternoon drinking sessions and often total disregard for local custom means we stick out like a sore thumb.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2952188/A-guide-NOT-Brit-abroad.html#ixzz3wsQwmWtv
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
In some quarters it is known as "British knob'eads on tour".
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/3314633/Are-we-using-too-much-Calpol.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/3314633/Are-we-using-too-much-Calpol.html)
Sigh ... calpol is not a sedative it is an analgesic and if used at all should be used sparingly. Anyone using calpol unnecessarily and as a soporific on children is an irresponsible idiot.
It is not so much a 'cultural' thing as a case of a basic lack of education on how over the counter medicines should be used, particularly if they are a product aimed at children.
Overdosing on paracetamol probably won't immediately make a child drowsy ... but it will play merry hell long term on internal organs.
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I too find the tale peculiar. Modern parents seem to exist in a different world;
whatever people might think about this peculiar tale of modern motherhood
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3393113/A-baby-seized-America-negligent-WPC-mother-insists-s-wrong.html#ixzz3wvnKchon
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I too find the tale peculiar. Modern parents seem to exist in a different world;
whatever people might think about this peculiar tale of modern motherhood
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3393113/A-baby-seized-America-negligent-WPC-mother-insists-s-wrong.html#ixzz3wvnKchon
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Thanks for that G-Unit. 8((()*/
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I too find the tale peculiar. Modern parents seem to exist in a different world;
whatever people might think about this peculiar tale of modern motherhood
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3393113/A-baby-seized-America-negligent-WPC-mother-insists-s-wrong.html#ixzz3wvnKchon
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Why is the story now headlines when the incident took place in April 2015?
Is it because the criminal charges have been dropped and she has been allowed to come home. The neglect charges are still on the stocks though I notice the prime sources are The Sun and the Mail on Line.
I guess there are plenty legs left in it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/london-suing-nyc-arrest-baby-put-foster-care-article-1.2487885
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All that woman deserves is hefty legal bills and no sympathy , for her stupidity.
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article written by Christina Hopkinson...
when you read an article do you simply take it at face value or are you more critical...
Christina Hopkinson is an outspoken advocate of alternative medicine...her articles are more than a little biased
Unlike pharma? creating an illnes and an expensive cure is just around the corner?
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Why is the story now headlines when the incident took place in April 2015?
Is it because the criminal charges have been dropped and she has been allowed to come home. The neglect charges are still on the stocks though I notice the prime sources are The Sun and the Mail on Line.
I guess there are plenty legs left in it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/london-suing-nyc-arrest-baby-put-foster-care-article-1.2487885
I saw this in the Independant and Guardian, it is still circulating. The child may be comming back to the UK but the Mother will not be given automatic custody. It was claimed her brother/relative would be given custody,but they withdrew the offer. No reason given. Strange story, not well reported.
Colour Blue: This is what I read, Please do not take it as an accurate account of what has happened. The Mother was charged, but those charges were dropped, she has not been found guilty of anything in a court of Law.
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I saw this in the Independant and Guardian, it is still circulating. The child may be comming back to the UK but the Mother will not be given automatic custody. It was claimed her brother/relative would be given custody,but they withdrew the offer. No reason given. Strange story, not well reported.
Colour Blue: This is what I read, Please do not take it as an accurate account of what has happened. The Mother was charged, but those charges were dropped, she has not been found guilty of anything in a court of Law.
that's exactly what i read too... I think...speculation...that she upset the NY cops...and they are making life very difficult for her... I think she may well have done absolutely nothing wrong
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that's exactly what i read too... I think...speculation...that she upset the NY cops...and they are making life very difficult for her... I think she may well have done absolutely nothing wrong
You could be right Davel. It may well be she did leave the baby unattended briefly to wash dishes or whatever, and someone, very over protective, over reacted. Or she did show signs of being relaxed with her baby, and leaing it unattended for a few mins while she was in the same vicinity, which was seen as lazy, bad parenting by someone. Still a strange story though. I just thought her saying that it was UK culture was a bit weird.
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Carol Cort left a child strapped in a car for 6 hours.
Charges were brought.
But the case against her was dismissed as there was no evidence she had acted wilfully.
Looks as if the barrister who said about the McCanns' parenting that it was 'within bounds of normal parenting' actually knew what he was talking about ....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-29117862
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(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/03/09/14/32084BDD00000578-0-image-a-3_1457534648595.jpg)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484064/Pro-gun-poster-girl-shot-four-year-old-son-driving-Florida-boy-pistol-seat-truck.html
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qRISIFi4PMU/TkcXlkNyncI/AAAAAAAABx8/4s9vVEllUJc/s320/dunblane_cds.jpg)
http://ninetiesnumberones.blogspot.co.uk/2011_07_01_archive.html
There are lots of differences between American and British culture ... some words which are acceptable in Britain being really offensive in America, and vice versa.
One can certainly see where confusion can sometimes reasonably arise.
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(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/03/09/14/32084BDD00000578-0-image-a-3_1457534648595.jpg)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484064/Pro-gun-poster-girl-shot-four-year-old-son-driving-Florida-boy-pistol-seat-truck.html
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qRISIFi4PMU/TkcXlkNyncI/AAAAAAAABx8/4s9vVEllUJc/s320/dunblane_cds.jpg)
http://ninetiesnumberones.blogspot.co.uk/2011_07_01_archive.html
There are lots of differences between American and British culture ... some words which are acceptable in Britain being really offensive in America, and vice versa.
One can certainly see where confusion can sometimes reasonably arise.
Serious question, what are you trying to point out with the links?
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Carol Cort left a child strapped in a car for 6 hours.
Charges were brought.
But the case against her was dismissed as there was no evidence she had acted wilfully.
Looks as if the barrister who said about the McCanns' parenting that it was 'within bounds of normal parenting' actually knew what he was talking about ....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-29117862
They wilfully left their apartment unlocked and put their children's safety at risk next to two main roads. Kate's mother wanted to kill them when she found out. Kate is always concerned about what her mother thinks and that judge should be sacked.
A WOMAN accused of hiding a £50,000 inheritance so she could continue claiming benefits walked free from court yesterday after proving she spent the windfall on her mother’s beloved cats.
District Judge Joti Boparai said it was “remarkable” that one woman could look after so many cats.
She added: “I find the defendant credible and do accept that in her mind what she did was not dishonest and that is the reason she didn’t declare the money. I find her not guilty."
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Serious question, what are you trying to point out with the links?
The different cultural attitudes which make it possible for an American mom to leave a loaded gun in proximity to an unrestrained four year old in the back seat of a car.
The shock of Hungerford but more so the Dunblane massacre of innocents which saw stricter gun laws introduced in Britain
If a British child is brought up in America assimilating American values will be inevitable.
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The different cultural attitudes which make it possible for an American mom to leave a loaded gun in proximity to an unrestrained four year old in the back seat of a car.
The shock of Hungerford but more so the Dunblane massacre of innocents which saw stricter gun laws introduced in Britain
If a British child is brought up in America assimilating American values will be inevitable.
American values have morphed greatly since the time of the pilgrim fathers. I for one would never want to rear a child there under any circumstances. Give me old blighty any day.
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They wilfully left their apartment unlocked and put their children's safety at risk next to two main roads. Kate's mother wanted to kill them when she found out. Kate is always concerned about what her mother thinks and that judge should be sacked.
A WOMAN accused of hiding a £50,000 inheritance so she could continue claiming benefits walked free from court yesterday after proving she spent the windfall on her mother’s beloved cats.
District Judge Joti Boparai said it was “remarkable” that one woman could look after so many cats.
She added: “I find the defendant credible and do accept that in her mind what she did was not dishonest and that is the reason she didn’t declare the money. I find her not guilty."
The McCanns (and all their holidaying friends) wilfully checked on their children, exhausted and crashed out in bed, at regular intervals.
There was no abandonment, intent to harm or (most important) attempt to cover up anything nefarious ....
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The McCanns (and all their holidaying friends) wilfully checked on their children, exhausted and crashed out in bed, at regular intervals.
There was no abandonment, intent to harm or (most important) attempt to cover up anything nefarious ....
There was neglect according to the Attorney General but not wilful thus they weren't prosecuted.
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There was neglect according to the Attorney General but not wilful thus they weren't prosecuted.
neglect is a specific offence (English and Portuguese law) and the McCanns were not guilty of it.
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The different cultural attitudes which make it possible for an American mom to leave a loaded gun in proximity to an unrestrained four year old in the back seat of a car.
The shock of Hungerford but more so the Dunblane massacre of innocents which saw stricter gun laws introduced in Britain
If a British child is brought up in America assimilating American values will be inevitable.
Much good that did; witness shootings in Cumbria in 2010.
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The different cultural attitudes which make it possible for an American mom to leave a loaded gun in proximity to an unrestrained four year old in the back seat of a car.
The shock of Hungerford but more so the Dunblane massacre of innocents which saw stricter gun laws introduced in Britain
If a British child is brought up in America assimilating American values will be inevitable.
Ta.
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Much good that did; witness shootings in Cumbria in 2010.
There will always be instances of bad people using guns to do what bad people do. The value of our gun laws lies in the prevention of accidental shootings carried out by very young children.
**snip
There have been at least 43 shootings carried by children under the age of three in the United States so far this year. Guns left within reach of toddlers can have tragic consequences.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11932821/toddler-shooting-gun-controls-america.html
In this one aspect there is no doubt that a cultural gap of immense dimensions exists between what is acceptable and what is not in the USA and Britain.
I am sure there must be many other examples depending what part of America is considered.
It is one reason why I think a British child in American custody should be repatriated as soon as is possible else officialdom is going to be responsible at some stage for a seriously confused child ... that is if officialdom even cares.
It really is about time actual safeguarding was being enacted on behalf of Samuel Fielden and his situation sorted out.
I wonder what the situation would be were this a case involving an American child in Britain? Whatever is going on it is time this little boy's future stability is considered.
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There will always be instances of bad people using guns to do what bad people do. The value of our gun laws lies in the prevention of accidental shootings carried out by very young children.
**snip
There have been at least 43 shootings carried by children under the age of three in the United States so far this year. Guns left within reach of toddlers can have tragic consequences.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11932821/toddler-shooting-gun-controls-america.html
In this one aspect there is no doubt that a cultural gap of immense dimensions exists between what is acceptable and what is not in the USA and Britain.
I am sure there must be many other examples depending what part of America is considered.
It is one reason why I think a British child in American custody should be repatriated as soon as is possible else officialdom is going to be responsible at some stage for a seriously confused child ... that is if officialdom even cares.
It really is about time actual safeguarding was being enacted on behalf of Samuel Fielden and his situation sorted out.
I wonder what the situation would be were this a case involving an American child in Britain? Whatever is going on it is time this little boy's future stability is considered.
Bad people doing bad things with guns.
Now that is a classic.
Have you told Randolph Scott ?
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Bad people doing bad things with guns.
Now that is a classic.
Have you told Randolph Scott ?
You do appear to have this blind spot when it comes to blaming perpetrators for their crimes.
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You do appear to have this blind spot when it comes to blaming perpetrators for their crimes.
Hardly.
There is no doubt about you though, on that.
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There will always be instances of bad people using guns to do what bad people do. The value of our gun laws lies in the prevention of accidental shootings carried out by very young children.
**snip
There have been at least 43 shootings carried by children under the age of three in the United States so far this year. Guns left within reach of toddlers can have tragic consequences.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11932821/toddler-shooting-gun-controls-america.html
In this one aspect there is no doubt that a cultural gap of immense dimensions exists between what is acceptable and what is not in the USA and Britain.
I am sure there must be many other examples depending what part of America is considered.
It is one reason why I think a British child in American custody should be repatriated as soon as is possible else officialdom is going to be responsible at some stage for a seriously confused child ... that is if officialdom even cares.
It really is about time actual safeguarding was being enacted on behalf of Samuel Fielden and his situation sorted out.
I wonder what the situation would be were this a case involving an American child in Britain? Whatever is going on it is time this little boy's future stability is considered.
I thought our current gun laws were not for that purpose. It remains legal to own shotguns and rifles. I will not bore you with detail of how they must be stored, in what and how it is fixed when not in use but the law will not stop a young child getting hold of an unattended legal gun in a residence. An adult making sure the child can't ever get at it is the key.
I have a friend in one of the southern states: "teach your daughters to shoot; a restraining order is only a piece of paper".
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I thought our current gun laws were not for that purpose. It remains legal to own shotguns and rifles. I will not bore you with detail of how they must be stored, in what and how it is fixed when not in use but the law will not stop a young child getting hold of an unattended legal gun in a residence. An adult making sure the child can't ever get at it is the key.
I have a friend in one of the southern states: "teach your daughters to shoot; a restraining order is only a piece of paper".
What useful purpose do you imagine they do serve?
Hungerford guns were held legally.
Dunblane guns were held legally.
Cumbria guns were held legally. In all three instances they were used illegally.
**snip
A high-profile pro-gun activist was shot in the back by her four-year-old son after he found her pistol lying on the back seat of her truck just 24 hours after he boasted about his shooting skills online.
Jamie Gilt, 31, who posts about firearms on her social media accounts was driving through Putnam County, Jacksonville, Florida, on Tuesday in her truck when she was wounded after the toddler picked up the weapon and shot her in the back.
It came just a day after she said the youngster would get 'jacked up' before a shooting practice on a page dedicated to her musings on Second Amendment rights.
On the profile Jamie Gilt for Gun Sense she wrote: 'Even my 4 year old gets jacked up to target shoot with the .22'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484064/Pro-gun-poster-girl-shot-four-year-old-son-driving-Florida-boy-pistol-seat-truck.html#ixzz42vK5ecqL
There is a powerful gun lobby active in America ... which results in many accidental shootings as well as many deliberate ones.
I prefer to live in a culture which on the whole deplores such waste ... and the fact there are so many gun incidents in America involving young children proves that if adults are adopting the safety measures you suggest, they are proving to be inadequate.
As detailed in the snip above, familiarity appears to breed contempt which could have had the result of the mother having her head blown off or the same happening to her gun savvy child.
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What useful purpose do you imagine they do serve?
Hungerford guns were held legally.
Dunblane guns were held legally.
Cumbria guns were held legally. In all three instances they were used illegally.
**snip
A high-profile pro-gun activist was shot in the back by her four-year-old son after he found her pistol lying on the back seat of her truck just 24 hours after he boasted about his shooting skills online.
Jamie Gilt, 31, who posts about firearms on her social media accounts was driving through Putnam County, Jacksonville, Florida, on Tuesday in her truck when she was wounded after the toddler picked up the weapon and shot her in the back.
It came just a day after she said the youngster would get 'jacked up' before a shooting practice on a page dedicated to her musings on Second Amendment rights.
On the profile Jamie Gilt for Gun Sense she wrote: 'Even my 4 year old gets jacked up to target shoot with the .22'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484064/Pro-gun-poster-girl-shot-four-year-old-son-driving-Florida-boy-pistol-seat-truck.html#ixzz42vK5ecqL
There is a powerful gun lobby active in America ... which results in many accidental shootings as well as many deliberate ones.
I prefer to live in a culture which on the whole deplores such waste ... and the fact there are so many gun incidents in America involving young children proves that if adults are adopting the safety measures you suggest, they are proving to be inadequate.
As detailed in the snip above, familiarity appears to breed contempt which could have had the result of the mother having her head blown off or the same happening to her gun savvy child.
Putting aside any sporting use, both rifles and shotguns have legitimate uses in animal control and subject to the proper controls shouldn't be a problem. The issues arise when the controls fail which can never be totally prevented.
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I thought our current gun laws were not for that purpose. It remains legal to own shotguns and rifles. I will not bore you with detail of how they must be stored, in what and how it is fixed when not in use but the law will not stop a young child getting hold of an unattended legal gun in a residence. An adult making sure the child can't ever get at it is the key.
I have a friend in one of the southern states: "teach your daughters to shoot; a restraining order is only a piece of paper".
Of course in the case of a restraining order the subject of it knows the victim, so will arrive appropriately armed to deal with this shooting daughter.
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What useful purpose do you imagine they do serve?
Hungerford guns were held legally.
Dunblane guns were held legally.
Cumbria guns were held legally. In all three instances they were used illegally.
**snip
A high-profile pro-gun activist was shot in the back by her four-year-old son after he found her pistol lying on the back seat of her truck just 24 hours after he boasted about his shooting skills online.
Jamie Gilt, 31, who posts about firearms on her social media accounts was driving through Putnam County, Jacksonville, Florida, on Tuesday in her truck when she was wounded after the toddler picked up the weapon and shot her in the back.
It came just a day after she said the youngster would get 'jacked up' before a shooting practice on a page dedicated to her musings on Second Amendment rights.
On the profile Jamie Gilt for Gun Sense she wrote: 'Even my 4 year old gets jacked up to target shoot with the .22'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484064/Pro-gun-poster-girl-shot-four-year-old-son-driving-Florida-boy-pistol-seat-truck.html#ixzz42vK5ecqL
There is a powerful gun lobby active in America ... which results in many accidental shootings as well as many deliberate ones.
I prefer to live in a culture which on the whole deplores such waste ... and the fact there are so many gun incidents in America involving young children proves that if adults are adopting the safety measures you suggest, they are proving to be inadequate.
As detailed in the snip above, familiarity appears to breed contempt which could have had the result of the mother having her head blown off or the same happening to her gun savvy child.
I rather think that is the point. The law did not prevent the occurrences. Hand guns are illegal in UK but they are about and there shootings with them.
You can see plenty of things wrong but I don't see a practical solution being offered up.
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I rather think that is the point. The law did not prevent the occurrences. Hand guns are illegal in UK but they are about and there shootings with them.
You can see plenty of things wrong but I don't see a practical solution being offered up.
In reality I think we may be in agreement on much of this issue. However it cannot be denied that cultural differences remain as far as attitudes to gun control and other matters are concerned between British and American populations; which varies depending on particular State Law.
It may be that Louise Fielden's behaviour gave enough concern for it to be reported to the authorities only because it happened in a Manhattan hotel. We do not know that. Perhaps she would have been reported if she had behaved in a similar fashion in a Manchester hotel ... which would negate the 'cultural difference' argument.
At the heart of it all is a small boy whose present predicament could have lifelong repercussions for him. Does anyone know when the case will be heard and hopefully sorted out with his well-being the paramount feature?
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In reality I think we may be in agreement on much of this issue. However it cannot be denied that cultural differences remain as far as attitudes to gun control and other matters are concerned between British and American populations; which varies depending on particular State Law.
It may be that Louise Fielden's behaviour gave enough concern for it to be reported to the authorities only because it happened in a Manhattan hotel. We do not know that. Perhaps she would have been reported if she had behaved in a similar fashion in a Manchester hotel ... which would negate the 'cultural difference' argument.
At the heart of it all is a small boy whose present predicament could have lifelong repercussions for him. Does anyone know when the case will be heard and hopefully sorted out with his well-being the paramount feature?
Off topic a bit but:
We probably are. The cultural differences wrt gunlaw will remain no doubt. I visited Houston (Texas that is not the one by Crosslee) for the first time shortly after the first moonlanding in the days when, to be admitted to the U.S, one had to have a visa with ones photograph on it issued by the embassy together with a letter of confirmation one had been inoculated against all sorts of pox particularly Yellow Fever. I was surprised to find a firearms stall in a Sunday morning flea market; anything you like from a switch blade to a semi automatic rifle sold over the stall! The stall owner tried to flog me a Browning Hi Power hand gun, we had an interesting conversation in which neither of us really understood the others position. He couldn't understand there was a law to prevent me wandering along my high street loaded for bear and I couldn't understand why he would want to. But then it's enshrined in their constitution. One could come up with a convincing argument that some parts of the declaration of independence and the constitution as originally drafted did not mean then what they are considered to mean now but that is well off topic.
Louise Fielden's predicament may be in some measure her own fault. Rule one "don't get trappy with City Hall and the cops in another country".
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Off topic a bit but:
We probably are. The cultural differences wrt gunlaw will remain no doubt. I visited Houston (Texas that is not the one by Crosslee) for the first time shortly after the first moonlanding in the days when, to be admitted to the U.S, one had to have a visa with ones photograph on it issued by the embassy together with a letter of confirmation one had been inoculated against all sorts of pox particularly Yellow Fever. I was surprised to find a firearms stall in a Sunday morning flea market; anything you like from a switch blade to a semi automatic rifle sold over the stall! The stall owner tried to flog me a Browning Hi Power hand gun, we had an interesting conversation in which neither of us really understood the others position. He couldn't understand there was a law to prevent me wandering along my high street loaded for bear and I couldn't understand why he would want to. But then it's enshrined in their constitution. One could come up with a convincing argument that some parts of the declaration of independence and the constitution as originally drafted did not mean then what they are considered to mean now but that is well off topic.
Louise Fielden's predicament may be in some measure her own fault. Rule one "don't get trappy with City Hall and the cops in another country".
As a cop herself she should have known that.
It is a really weird case, and that little boy may be getting really screwed up by what is happening to him in his formative years.
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As a cop herself she should have known that.
It is a really weird case, and that little boy may be getting really screwed up by what is happening to him in his formative years.
It is odd that her brief said he didn't want it to drag on for months and that is what is happening. It is odd that if he is returned to UK he will go into care. I incline to the view we don't have the full picture.
If you believe Aristotle's theory "give me the child til it is seven etc......" then the child is on the way already. There are however some equally wacko people over here so who knows whether he will turn out better or worse ? Either way he is not being given a very good start.
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Off topic a bit but:
We probably are. The cultural differences wrt gunlaw will remain no doubt. I visited Houston (Texas that is not the one by Crosslee) for the first time shortly after the first moonlanding in the days when, to be admitted to the U.S, one had to have a visa with ones photograph on it issued by the embassy together with a letter of confirmation one had been inoculated against all sorts of pox particularly Yellow Fever. I was surprised to find a firearms stall in a Sunday morning flea market; anything you like from a switch blade to a semi automatic rifle sold over the stall! The stall owner tried to flog me a Browning Hi Power hand gun, we had an interesting conversation in which neither of us really understood the others position. He couldn't understand there was a law to prevent me wandering along my high street loaded for bear and I couldn't understand why he would want to. But then it's enshrined in their constitution. One could come up with a convincing argument that some parts of the declaration of independence and the constitution as originally drafted did not mean then what they are considered to mean now but that is well off topic.
Louise Fielden's predicament may be in some measure her own fault. Rule one "don't get trappy with City Hall and the cops in another country".
Great story Alice... I do tend to smirk at the gun culture. death is death is there a nicer way to die than with a gun? how about a beheading different culture same outcome! or like Uk's chosen crime: knife crime how about being stabbed to death instead of being shot by a gun? Oh the choices the choices... Guns don't... kill people do!
my favorite USA sign was 'God forgives those who tresspass- we shoot the B@ s@ ds..!. lol
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Great story Alice... I do tend to smirk at the gun culture. death is death is there a nicer way to die than with a gun? how about a beheading different culture same outcome! or like Uk's chosen crime: knife crime how about being stabbed to death instead of being shot by a gun? Oh the choices the choices... Guns don't... kill people do!
my favorite USA sign was 'God forgives those who tresspass- we shoot the B@ s@ ds..!. lol
or "God created men, Samuel Colt made them equal"