Is there any evidence which implicates Sheila?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Thanks pal.
Why do you suppose he didn't immediately shoot Nevil in the temple point blank? Unless he woke as Jeremy entered? But surely at this point the kids and Sheila would be awake and in a state of panic. The scene would be out of control within seconds.
The best way to control them would be to use the silencer to kill Nevil and June, then shoot Sheila, surely?

Either way, what a heinous, terrible, cowardly act. How he hasn't been shivved in jail is probably more to do with lack of opportunity than anything else, probably on 'protected' status. I know it was attempted before and I also know that if he ever pops his head out long enough he'll be dispatched. So there's that to look forward to.

I suspect June’s dog, Crispy started stirring when he heard creeping noises downstairs and June was known to be a light sleeper, whereas Nevill slept like a log. By the time June woke Nevill to say she thought she heard noises Jeremy had already crept into the bedroom. His plan was to make as little noise as possible so as not to wake them, hence him using the rifle with the silencer attached.

Because both Nevill and June had woken up Jeremy wasn’t able to aim for their temples, hence why he missed June’s temple because she’d already sat up and was no doubt moving.

Nevill got out of bed before June did, and tried to disarm Jeremy by the bedroom door and landing, so it was impossible for Jeremy to aim that long rifle at Nevill’s temple. He did indeed aim for his head though, but the bullets penetrated his mouth and upper shoulder. He also had to shoot June again, as the first few bullets hadn’t killed her, and by this time he’d run out of ammo.

They both got downstairs where the violent struggle took place, resulting in Jeremy shooting Nevill dead in the kitchen after he’d beaten him over the head with rifle, rather than shooting him in his bed.

You’re right, Jeremy used the silencer hoping no-one would wake.

And you’re also right that had their been crazy berserk shouting from Sheila (who Jeremy tried to frame), the twins would have woken and jumped out their beds to find out what was happening. The fact the twins didn’t even stir before being shot dead, proves Sheila couldn’t have been going berserk. Furthermore, had Sheila been going berserk, June would have rushed into the twins’ room and barricaded herself in there with them while Nevill disarmed her.

Yes, you’re right, he was attacked in prison, but due to his vile heinous crimes he’s protected. He will never be released, ever, but as you rightly say, if he ever was let out he’d be “taken out” very quickly.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I doubt there is any. Were her fingerprints on the gun and, if so, were they in the right orientation to conduct such a shot. TWICE?

There was just one of Sheila’s fingerprints on the rifle, which Jeremy made by pressing her finger against it after she was dead.

Had Sheila fired 3 cartridges the rifle would have been covered in her prints.

All her long manicured fingernails were in perfect condition and even the ballistic specialist who tested the gun afterwards split one of his fingernails when changing the cartridges.

Nor was there any gun residue on Sheila’s hands, body or clothes.

Nor was there any blood from the other victims on her. She had not one tiny speckle of Nevill’s blood on her, and he was bleeding profusely when he beaten to a pulp.

She had no blood, sugar or glass on her feet or any of her footwear which she’d have bound to have had if she fought Nevill in the kitchen.

Her hair was examined too, and there was no traces of blood, gun residue or human tissue in her hair, either. Some members of Jeremy’s campaign try to explain that away by saying she carried out “ritual bathing”, but that’s nonsense. Her hair was dry and tests showed it hadn’t been washed and dried that evening. She also had a Tampax inserted as she was menstruating, and the amount of menstrual blood on it suggested she’d had it inserted for several hours: women never bath with a Tampax inserted. They remove it and put a new one in after drying themselves.

She’d gone to bed wearing her blue nightdress; the one she was killed in, and it had none of her own blood down the front, which proves she could not have walked downstairs after supposedly shooting herself the first time, to place the silencer at the back of the cupboard. The police searched the whole house, including the washing machine etc to see if there were any bloodied clothes of hers, and they found none.

Also, her arms were too short for her to have reached the trigger to shoot herself.

I’ve tried to be as quick as possible highlighting just some of the facts that prove Sheila could not and did not shoot her family or herself, but there’s also stacks of other compelling evidence which proves Sheila didn’t kill anyone — it was Ueremy who killed them, and he did it alone.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I doubt there is any. Were her fingerprints on the gun and, if so, were they in the right orientation to conduct such a shot. TWICE?

I forgot to mention, General, by rights the rifle should have been covered in prints. Nevill used it, as did Jeremy. including other people who visited Nevill and handled the gun to look at it as it was relatively new.

Holly mentions about “bluing” but one of Sheila’s prints was on there — because Jeremy pressed her fingertip as hard against it as possible to make sure it would be. If “bluing” prevented prints from forming on the gun, how could Sheila’s one print be there unless it was pressed hard against it?

I’m not sure if indeed the gun had been treated with “bluing”, and it seems Jeremy didn’t think it had, either.

Jeremy told Julie Mugford  (when he lied to her & said a mercenary had killed them on his behalf), he told her that he was worried because during the huge violent struggle with Nevill, one of his gloves fell off and he had to wipe the gun of all prints. It deeply concerned Jeremy for some reason. So going by the forensics examination of the gun, the reason they couldn’t decipher the smudged prints , which must have been Nevill’s too as he’d tried to get the rifle off Jeremy, they couldn’t confirm who they belonged to as Jeremy had to wipe the gun clean after putting his glove back on. He obviously didn’t want to destroy evidence, albeit “innocent” evidence of Nevill’s prints and others who’s handled it previously, as it looked suspicious. Why would someone who was going berserk in a psychotic frenzy and who was about to kill themselves after killing everyone else, worry about wiping the gun barrel clean?

No wonder he was worried...

[ISpyWithMyEye]

We couldn't agree on that. I did think his 'acting' like he thought a maniac would by going back and forth shooting into victims. My friends wondered why sheila only had two gunshot wounds the others had many and the savage beating of the father led her to believe this was a male bull venting anger and frustration. If I t was sheila and she didn't get on with both parents we are led to believe why not give the mother a good thrashing as well?

Anyway. this is just what you are doing.. thinking what may have happened.

Sheila and her father very, very close, Miss Taken and got on really well. She actually adored him.

But you’re right, it would have been impossible for her to have beaten Nevill so manically; not to mention, he could so easily have disarmed her within seconds!

Besides her being half his weight and tiny in comparison, she was extremely weak, unsteady, shaky, unable to focus well, lacked coordination, was stiff, trembly, and had no energy.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Mmm. I can recall saying exactly that when, in 2011, within a couple of weeks of joining a forum -as a supporter- I was told that "evidence existed", indeed, was in the hands of the post's author, an alleged "good friend" to Jeremy, having once shared a room, which would categorically set Jeremy free!!! After about a month of this carrot being dangled, I asked why this information wasn't being delivered to somewhere it could make a difference. I was told the time wasn't right!!! This important 'evidence' has subsequently vanished.

Did you ever find out what this startling evidence was back in 2011, April? 😌

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I doubt there is any. Were her fingerprints on the gun and, if so, were they in the right orientation to conduct such a shot. TWICE?

That’s a REALLY interesting point, General.

Sheila was shot TWICE, yet there was just one of her fingerprints on the gun...

That reinforces the theory that Jeremy pressed her fingertip against the gun as hard as he could do, and thought that would be enough evidence she’d handled the gun.

Going by his ridiculous lies, trip-ups, backpedaling etc, and the fact he failed miserably at school (a private one, at that), and despite him being sly & cunning he wasn’t seen as bright, capable or academic, thus why his plan to commit the perfect murder — which he boasted about to Julie — was farcical.

I shall send you a link from here which shows his statements when questioned under caution. The ludicrous lies and slip-ups are jaw-dropping. People who knew him well, including his headmaster all said they felt he wasn’t bright, and I suspect that’s why Nevill wanted him to take over the running of the farm as it was practical work. June and Nevill never paid for him to go to public school to learn how to ride a track: im sure they wanted to give him a wonderful start in life; go on to university; train for a career in maybe, medicine, law, engineering...or suchlike. They wanted him to have a good life. But when they realised he lacked the capabilities they decided the most secure future for him was to run the farm. Far better making an income from the land and caravan park rentals than working as a barman in Sloppy Joe’s pizza parlour ...

[The General]

Welcome to this thread Herr General!

I also wonder about the sequence of events- we all discussed this (family) and came up with our own version of what we would go about this.

Best effort was: shoot the twins first- then sheila- not quite dead- nevile hears something and wakes up- get shot as he makes for downstairs-  June gets a bullet then JB goes to finish off Neville- then back upstairs to finish off sheila and place the gun on her.

Morning MTI. This summary of events does fit together. My only nagging doubt is the need to control Nevil first. It seemed pretty calculated and I'm sure JB would try not to make it go noisy.
I would like to place on record, having read a lot about the case of the last week or so, is the execution of two 6 year old boys is something that I can't conceive; an unbelievably callous act conducted just to ensure an ID couldn't be made, no doubt.
Going back to Nevil, something occurred to me last night, and I'm sure it's been raised ad nauseum before - one way to subdue Nevil would be to take one of the women 'hostage'. I don't mean in the traditional sense, but drag one of them out and threaten to shoot her. If he could get him in a reluctant, pleading mode JB could get a decent shot off at him. Is it possible that Nevil rushed JB and was shot in the process?
Did any of the rounds miss, lodged in walls or furniture?
BTW, I'm no sleuth, I'm not trying to solve anything - it's all been solved in my opinion. I'm curious as to the mode of the act.

[The General]

That’s a REALLY interesting point, General.

Sheila was shot TWICE, yet there was just one of her fingerprints on the gun...

That reinforces the theory that Jeremy pressed her fingertip against the gun as hard as he could do, and thought that would be enough evidence she’d handled the gun.

Going by his ridiculous lies, trip-ups, backpedaling etc, and the fact he failed miserably at school (a private one, at that), and despite him being sly & cunning he wasn’t seen as bright, capable or academic, thus why his plan to commit the perfect murder — which he boasted about to Julie — was farcical.

I shall send you a link from here which shows his statements when questioned under caution. The ludicrous lies and slip-ups are jaw-dropping. People who knew him well, including his headmaster all said they felt he wasn’t bright, and I suspect that’s why Nevill wanted him to take over the running of the farm as it was practical work. June and Nevill never paid for him to go to public school to learn how to ride a track: im sure they wanted to give him a wonderful start in life; go on to university; train for a career in maybe, medicine, law, engineering...or suchlike. They wanted him to have a good life. But when they realised he lacked the capabilities they decided the most secure future for him was to run the farm. Far better making an income from the land and caravan park rentals than working as a barman in Sloppy Joe’s pizza parlour ...

Thanks for the insight.
So the suppressor....because he is an idiot, did he realise that the total length of the rifle was too long with the suppressor attached for it to have been possible for Shelia to shoot herself (twice), so he had to remove it?

[Holly Goodhead]

Morning MTI. This summary of events does fit together. My only nagging doubt is the need to control Nevil first. It seemed pretty calculated and I'm sure JB would try not to make it go noisy.
I would like to place on record, having read a lot about the case of the last week or so, is the execution of two 6 year old boys is something that I can't conceive; an unbelievably callous act conducted just to ensure an ID couldn't be made, no doubt.
Going back to Nevil, something occurred to me last night, and I'm sure it's been raised ad nauseum before - one way to subdue Nevil would be to take one of the women 'hostage'. I don't mean in the traditional sense, but drag one of them out and threaten to shoot her. If he could get him in a reluctant, pleading mode JB could get a decent shot off at him. Is it possible that Nevil rushed JB and was shot in the process?
Did any of the rounds miss, lodged in walls or furniture?
BTW, I'm no sleuth, I'm not trying to solve anything - it's all been solved in my opinion. I'm curious as to the mode of the act.

To date a shooting reconstruction hasn't taken place.

Certain indisputable facts exist:

- The magazine to the rifle holds a maximum of 10 cartridges.  In addition to the ten it is also possible to load a cartridge into the breach.  Tooled up being a total of 11.

- June was initially shot with her head on the pillow evidenced by two bullets embedded in it and blood stains on it.

- June sustained a total of 6 gsw's whilst in bed and getting out of. 

- Having sustained the above injuries she was able to get out of bed and walked around the bed and back again evidenced by her blood drips identified on the carpet.

- She was found dead by the bedroom door with two gsw's to the head of which either one would have immobilised her immediately.

- NB sustained 4 gsw's upstairs evidenced by casings and the fact he sustained  4 gsw's in the kitchen of which any one of those would have immobilised him immediately.

- DC sustained 5 gsw's and NC 3 gsw's.  The pathologist thought they were fired consecutively.

The distance of shots estimated by the person who worked in the firearms dept is as follows:

62. Mr Fletcher also gave evidence of the range at which the shots had been fired. The lower (and not immediately fatal) of the injuries suffered by Sheila Caffell was caused when the muzzle of the gun was within three inches of the throat. The upper injury was a contact shot.

63. Of the seven injuries suffered by June Bamber, five were shots from the gun held at least one foot away from the body. The bullet wound between the eyes was fired from less than one foot away, and could have been with the gun in contact with the skin, although he viewed that as unlikely. Mr Fletcher was unable to estimate the range of the shot which had caused the injury to the right side of Mrs Bamber's chest.

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.

65. As regards the twins, four of the five injuries suffered by Daniel were caused when the gun was held within one foot of his head, the fifth was from over two feet away. The three wounds to Nicholas were contact or close proximity shots

[The General]

To date a shooting reconstruction hasn't taken place.

Certain indisputable facts exist:

- The magazine to the rifle holds a maximum of 10 cartridges.  In addition to the ten it is also possible to load a cartridge into the breach.  Tooled up being a total of 11.

- June was initially shot with her head on the pillow evidenced by two bullets embedded in it and blood stains on it.

- June sustained a total of 6 gsw's whilst in bed and getting out of. 

- Having sustained the above injuries she was able to get out of bed and walked around the bed and back again evidenced by her blood drips identified on the carpet.

- She was found dead by the bedroom door with two gsw's to the head of which either one would have immobilised her immediately.

- NB sustained 4 gsw's upstairs evidenced by casings and the fact he sustained  4 gsw's in the kitchen of which any one of those would have immobilised him immediately.

- DC sustained 5 gsw's and NC 3 gsw's.  The pathologist thought they were fired consecutively.

The distance of shots estimated by the person who worked in the firearms dept is as follows:

62. Mr Fletcher also gave evidence of the range at which the shots had been fired. The lower (and not immediately fatal) of the injuries suffered by Sheila Caffell was caused when the muzzle of the gun was within three inches of the throat. The upper injury was a contact shot.

63. Of the seven injuries suffered by June Bamber, five were shots from the gun held at least one foot away from the body. The bullet wound between the eyes was fired from less than one foot away, and could have been with the gun in contact with the skin, although he viewed that as unlikely. Mr Fletcher was unable to estimate the range of the shot which had caused the injury to the right side of Mrs Bamber's chest.

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.

65. As regards the twins, four of the five injuries suffered by Daniel were caused when the gun was held within one foot of his head, the fifth was from over two feet away. The three wounds to Nicholas were contact or close proximity shots

Thanks Holly. Your rigour and accuracy do you credit.

[APRIL]

There was just one of Sheila’s fingerprints on the rifle, which Jeremy made by pressing her finger against it after she was dead.

Had Sheila fired 3 cartridges the rifle would have been covered in her prints.

All her long manicured fingernails were in perfect condition and even the ballistic specialist who tested the gun afterwards split one of his fingernails when changing the cartridges.

Nor was there any gun residue on Sheila’s hands, body or clothes.

Nor was there any blood from the other victims on her. She had not one tiny speckle of Nevill’s blood on her, and he was bleeding profusely when he beaten to a pulp.

She had no blood, sugar or glass on her feet or any of her footwear which she’d have bound to have had if she fought Nevill in the kitchen.

Her hair was examined too, and there was no traces of blood, gun residue or human tissue in her hair, either. Some members of Jeremy’s campaign try to explain that away by saying she carried out “ritual bathing”, but that’s nonsense. Her hair was dry and tests showed it hadn’t been washed and dried that evening. She also had a Tampax inserted as she was menstruating, and the amount of menstrual blood on it suggested she’d had it inserted for several hours: women never bath with a Tampax inserted. They remove it and put a new one in after drying themselves.

She’d gone to bed wearing her blue nightdress; the one she was killed in, and it had none of her own blood down the front, which proves she could not have walked downstairs after supposedly shooting herself the first time, to place the silencer at the back of the cupboard. The police searched the whole house, including the washing machine etc to see if there were any bloodied clothes of hers, and they found none.

Also, her arms were too short for her to have reached the trigger to shoot herself.

I’ve tried to be as quick as possible highlighting just some of the facts that prove Sheila could not and did not shoot her family or herself, but there’s also stacks of other compelling evidence which proves Sheila didn’t kill anyone — it was Ueremy who killed them, and he did it alone.

Whoa there, Spy! WHOA!!! I fear your enthusiasm is running away with you!!! I'm really interested to learn that it's been confirmed that Sheila's hair has been proved to have been dry and not recently washed. It's something, as a one time hairdresser, I've pushed since becoming interested in the case, whilst others have claimed it to be wet. HOWEVER!!! From a personal standpoint, I's say that some of you observations re tampons is, well, to be honest, just gobbledy gook! Whilst I know that autopsy discovered the inserted tampon and that she was said to have been in the early stages of menstruation. However, the flow changes from female to female making it difficult to assess how long a tampon had been in place. I've never been aware that "women never bath with a Tampex. They remove it inserted. They remove it and put in a new one after drying themselves"!!!! At best, that's a wildly sweeping statement. At worst, it's entirely erroneous.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I’ve got to agree with that, certainly re the Tampax.  I don’t believe there’s any hard and fast rules about what women would and wouldn’t do wrt bathing while menstruating.

[APRIL]

Did you ever find out what this startling evidence was back in 2011, April? 😌

It's hazy, now, but it was HUUGE at the time and had to do with Sheila being photographed -posed by police?- on the bed with her nightdress raised to reveal that she was without underwear. It also, allegedly 'proved' that there was only one wound. Basically, the claim was that the police shot her when they first entered. Rushed her upstairs to do CPR then shot her again, accidentally!!! Incredulous though it now is, as a supporter, I WANTED to believe it, then.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Thanks for the insight.
So the suppressor....because he is an idiot, did he realise that the total length of the rifle was too long with the suppressor attached for it to have been possible for Shelia to shoot herself (twice), so he had to remove it?

Yes, it dawned on Jeremy after he’d shot her dead that it was impossible for her to have shot herself, thus why he removed the silencer. Even then, without the silencer, it would have been extremely difficult for Sheila to have shot herself under her chin. I shall find a photo for you that shows how long that rifle was.

Furthermore:

The rifle wouldn’t have fallen on her lap after firing

Nor would she have been able to use just one arm in order to shoot herself; she’d have needed to have held the gun with BOTH hands

Sheila was found with her left arm bent up next to her head — her left arm would have been resting down by her body

Sheila also had extreme mottling in her left arm, consistent with the onset of rigor mortis. That means her arm was in that bent upward position at the time of death.

Added to that is the pressing question: if Sheila removed the silencer as she couldn’t shoot herself with it attached, why wasn’t it found next to her body? Why would she walk downstairs and carefully place it deep inside the gun cupboard when there was absolutely no point? Why would she care where the silencer was found?

In the event, it was proven Sheila never walked downstairs after being shot the first time as A) there was none of her blood anywhere else in the house, B) she had no blood down the front of her body or nightdress, C) the pathologist said the first shot rendered her semi-conscious, D) her spine had been fractured in the first shooting which would have caused immediate partial paralysis, and E) the first shot caused massive haemorrhaging in her throat and the blood trails from her mouth ran upwards along her face. You can’t defy the laws of gravity, which means Sheila could not have stood up after the first shot, otherwise the blood trails would have run downwards.

[The General]

Yes, it dawned on Jeremy after he’d shot her dead that it was impossible for her to have shot herself, thus why he removed the silencer. Even then, without the silencer, it would have been extremely difficult for Sheila to have shot herself under her chin. I shall find a photo for you that shows how long that rifle was.

Furthermore:

The rifle wouldn’t have fallen on her lap after firing

Nor would she have been able to use just one arm in order to shoot herself; she’d have needed to have held the gun with BOTH hands

Sheila was found with her left arm bent up next to her head — her left arm would have been resting down by her body

Sheila also had extreme mottling in her left arm, consistent with the onset of rigor mortis. That means her arm was in that bent upward position at the time of death.

Added to that is the pressing question: if Sheila removed the silencer as she couldn’t shoot herself with it attached, why wasn’t it found next to her body? Why would she walk downstairs and carefully place it deep inside the gun cupboard when there was absolutely no point? Why would she care where the silencer was found?

In the event, it was proven Sheila never walked downstairs after being shot the first time as A) there was none of her blood anywhere else in the house, B) she had no blood down the front of her body or nightdress, C) the pathologist said the first shot rendered her semi-conscious, D) her spine had been fractured in the first shooting which would have caused immediate partial paralysis, and E) the first shot caused massive haemorrhaging in her throat and the blood trails from her mouth ran upwards along her face. You can’t defy the laws of gravity, which means Sheila could not have stood up after the first shot, otherwise the blood trails would have run downwards.

Excellent. Cheers.
It's patently obvious that she didn't do that to herself. If you've ever seen how someone reacts post a single gun shot, you will know that the victim takes leave of their senses and is generally unable to function on any level, apart from writhing around, screaming and calling for their mum.

edit: having said that, I've never seen anyone shot with a .22